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Hand Mixer with dough hook ruins my dough

onurz's picture
onurz

Hand Mixer with dough hook ruins my dough

Hello,

 

Sometimes I try to use my handmixer to develop some gluten on my wet dought, like when I go around 80%. Whener I use handmixer dough becomes very soupy. Instead of developing gluten I feel like it is breaking everything.

 

Today I trıed to make 90% biga loaf from abel when I tried to mix biga with the rest of dough I used hand mixer and it turned into a lumpy mess.

 

Is there a proper way of using hand mixer?

The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

I have never heard of using a hand mixer on dough. That being said, if it is a stand mixer you are using, this is my lazy man method. Split your liquid, use enough liquid in your first addition to bring to dough to about 65% hydration. I recommend an autolyse. After that, add your other dry ingredients and a little water at a time, while your mixer is running. let the dough absorb the added liquid, before adding any more. A short rest in the mixing bowl is very helpful too. once all your required water is absorbed, rest in the bowl (5min.) then continue to knead to your desired gluten development. I never fully develop my dough in the mixer. I leave room for further development during bulk ferment, along with a few stretch and folds.  I hope that helps.

 

Meat5000's picture
Meat5000 (not verified)

Move it around in big circles opposite to the direction the hook is spinning... on a low speed, not necessarily touching the bottom.

Mimic a stand mixer.

onurz's picture
onurz

Thank you for your answer. I have a hand mixer and unfortunately there is no stand mixer for me in the near future. I am trying to ease up every step because of the time availability. But hand mixer is increasing the process time for me instead of decresing. I guess there is no proper usage for it.

Meat5000's picture
Meat5000 (not verified)

They are better for cakes :)

Hand mix and knead of a sandwich loaf for me takes 5 minutes. Itd take longer getting mixers out and cleaning them afterwards.

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Does the recipe say to incorporate the biga into the final dough by hand, or by machine?

And is this the very dry shaggy kind of biga, or a dough-ball kind of biga?

--

When the (dough ball type of) biga is a high percentage of the final dough, like here -- 90%, the gluten all comes from the biga, and is (mostly) formed naturally while the biga is fermenting.  By the time you mix the biga into the final dough, 90% of your final gluten has been formed... in the biga. 

[edited] If you then machine-mix at that point, it would be easy to overmix, and tear apart much of the gluten that was built up -- and it can't be put back together.  I can imagine the hand-mixer, with double prongs of dough hooks tearing apart gluten strands more so than a single spiral dough hook.

I'm betting the recipe said to incorporate by hand, maybe with some pincer method, and maybe gentle folding.  I haven't seen your recipe --  this is just going by your description.  And I'm comparing the situation to the 80% biga formula in Forkish's FSWY book.

Hope this helps.

 

onurz's picture
onurz

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/54556/90-biga-loaf-italian-method

 

Recipe goes for the machine. This recipe calls for %90 biga with %45 hydration. Is there a video showing how to mix such dry biga with the rest? Is it possible to develop gluten by kneading with low hydration like %60 then increasing it to %80. If possible is there a video demonstration.

 

mwilson's picture
mwilson

Is the biga SD or CY leavened?

onurz's picture
onurz

This time it was IDY but I also tried with SD before. It makes a soup regardles of the yeast type.

mwilson's picture
mwilson

Well ok, your results are the same but these types of fermentation a very different. SD brings a massive physio-chemical change that CY doesn't and that effects the tolerance of gluten.

Next question.. Flour?

onurz's picture
onurz

Max protein I can find here is 12 percent white flour so thats what I am using.

mwilson's picture
mwilson

UK flour? Very unlikely this particular it would ever work with the SD version of the biga. The flour would become too degraded.

The CY version is probably just about doable. Did you adhere strictly to the temperature range specified? It is very important.

Also initial mixing of the biga needs to be gentle since fermentation will reduce the gluten's tolerance. I learnt this the hard way when I used to own one of those mixers and was making this type of bread. 

PS. You really need to employ the bassinage method to mix this successfully.

onurz's picture
onurz

Flour is from Turkey. 12 is usually what I am able to get. Sometimes I find 13.Bassinage method is developing gluten in low hydration then increasing hydration with little steps, righ? Can I start with 60% then reach to 85% or is there a limit? When I search bassinage method videos are only doing that with stand mixer. Is there a demonstration to bassinage method by hand?

mwilson's picture
mwilson

That's correct regarding bassinage and I highly recommend its use. When using flour of unknown abilities it makes sense to mix up an unleavened sample of just flour and water to get a feel for its handling properties.

If you judge the flour to be weak then you would need to limit the length of fermentation and its water content.

Keep trying and I'm sure you'll make progress.

 

onurz's picture
onurz

I actually had 2 biga batches that day. One used for bread with hand mixer. Other one used for pizza hand kneading. Since f'ed other one up, I got a sense how to aproach my other batch and used bassinage method without knowing. started with a dry  dough, knead it up 10 mins then added water. I could have add water a bit slowly tho'. Result was pretty satisfying. Thanks for tips.

BrianShaw's picture
BrianShaw

I have dough kneading attachment for my hand mixer too. Used it for the first time (in 20 years of owning the mixer) to incorporate egg into Pate choux.  It worked but hurt my wrist and was like wrestling a  rattlesnake. Hand mixing is easier. I imagine that hand kneading is easier too. 

onurz's picture
onurz

True. Long period of hand mixer usage is pain in the arse. Makes your thumb numb.