A new Nutrimill Artiste or a Refurbished Kitchenaid Professional 6000HD DC motor
I am finally breaking down and buying a stand or bowl mixer.
For several years I have been wanting to get the Kitchenaid Professional 6000HD 6qt bowl DC motor, which is superior to the Kitchenaid AC models.
KitchenAid Professional 6000 HD Review
I have come across outstanding reviews for the Nutrimill Artiste, for its bread & pizza dough handling/mixing capabilities.
The Refurbished KA 6000 DC version model is in my price range approx $250+ which is the same as the Nutrimill Artiste.
Which should I buy?
There are many pros and cons for each.
Size: goes to the Nutrimill for space saving, the 6000 is a beast and on my limited counter space it would dominate (however, I can squeeze it in where it doesn't impede normal workflow). Size aside, the KA is made from metal, steel mixing bowl, heavy duty chassis, its weight alone keeps it anchored on the work surface. The Artiste needs suction cups to stay put.
Power : The 6000 is 1HP output but rated at 350watts per the above review you can't compare the power of DC vs AC by looking at watts, the DC version 6000 is much more powerful than it's AC cousins. The Nutrimill is 650watts, and while there are many rave reviews on youtube & Nutrimill website praising the Nutrimill dough handling capabilities, watching the videos doesn't inspire confidence, you can hear the gears/motor load and unload as the dough moves around the bowl, and being plastic it wobbles a lot? Will this mean a shorter life span? There are many happy KA mixer owners who have used there KA for 15-20 years.
Accessories: Nutrimill is the winner here, it can use all the Bosch accessories, the KA 6000 DC ver, is a proprietary model and has limited accessories, it seems the #1 looked for the accessory is a splash shield, and there is none. There are Amazon comments saying there is a shield, however, that is for the AC version of the 6000 which uses a different bowl.
Dough Handling: the KA 6000 will require some bowl scraping, but some say the problem is more about bowl position adjustment, otherwise excellent dough handling the final dough will be mixed well, with achieving desired gluten development. Videos on YT showing the Nutrimill being superior in mixing (using colored ingredients), the Artiste has the dough and other ingredients thoroughly mixed in the final dough. However, the mixer has to run longer because the dough as a ball or shaggy mess is being moved around the bowl without the paddle digging in and kneading, the dough making 2 to 4 circuits around the bowl for 1 knead circuit,(example of this). Maybe that is the loading and unloading sound I mentioned above?
High Hydration Dough: My current fav home oven Pizza dough is 500+ grams 70% hydration (currently I double to 1000+grams and hand mix/knead), there are comments on this forum stating the Nutrimill might have problems with high hydration, I want to be able to mix/knead up to 13 cups of flour + ingredients, however, there are many serious bakers saying the Nutrimill will hand 3-5 loafs of bread & enough dough for 3-5 large pizzas . I do 12-13 cups of flour for pizza every 2 or 3 weeks for a gathering of a few friends, and make bread weekly. Will the Nutrimill handle it, I am fairly certain the KA DC ver will handle it and should last, or am I giving too much credit to the KA DC version as there are so many stories of KA models mostly AC versions burning up either motors or gears, and the smell of something burning on heavy dough loads?
Noise: I can only judge from the videos, but according to many KA 6000 DC Ver it is quiet, especially on low speed. video shows the KA 6000 DC ver at higher speeds is maybe noise than the Artiste?
New vs Refurbished: I have bought many refurbished items from Ebay, including tools, cell phones, computer, etc and have never regretted my decision and the items typically performed great KA 6000 DC ver 90 day warranty on Amazon. The Nutrimill might be new so that might give a slight edge 1 year warranty, however, it is also new in terms of longevity maybe only 2 years old, so not a long track record. Many are saying the Nutrimill Artiste is made by Bosch, the Artiste is not made by Bosch, it is made by L'Chef. L'Chef is the exclusive distributor of Bosch Kitchen Machines in the USA and Canada. I can buy a Square Trade 3 yr warranty for $27 for the KA refurbished certified by Amazon.
There are many other considerations in buying a mixer, I really want to just save time on making pizza and bread dough, and improve my dough. Kneading by hand produces a decent loaf of bread or pizza skin, but I can cut the time in half or more, do multiple loaves of bread or larger batches of pizza dough in the same amount of time to do one. I think the results will be more consistent too with mixer dough. When my breadmaker was still alive, I used it for mixing the dough, and proofing bread dough, I put the proofed dough in loaf pan and baked in the oven. The results were consistent, that has not been true for hand kneaded dough.
OK which would you buy ? "Refurbished" KA Professional 6000HD DC version or "New" Nutrimill Artiste both approx same price +- $20 ?
If I was buying and if I only really cared about bread, I'd lean toward the Nutrimill, because of its superior ability to mix and knead correctly. My concerns about it would be servicing and durability, but the fact that it does the actual job better has to count for something. I would be combing the reviews and reports on it, looking for common problems. If I found patterns (not just reports, patterns are the key) of mechanical problems, then I would think again.
Thanks David for the reply.
Actually currently, I do about 15-20 cups of bread flour + other ingredients per week, split almost even between bread & pizza. LoL, no I don't eat it all, we have guests over 1 or 2x a week. Holidays I make a lot of gift bread in various styles.
correct me if I am wrong, the artiste is a clone of the Bosch correct? Just an fyi I find the Bosch is much better at mixing lower hydration dough's than it is at mixing higher hydration's. That is my anecdotal observation.
When I said "just bread", I meant for pizza to count as "bread" - because a pizza isn't a chocolate cake or a spiralized cucumber. ?
I bought the KA you're looking at on sale at Costco over a year ago. I would echo the comment made about the Bosch mixer--the KA's dough hook doesn't do much with higher hydration doughs. You have to constantly stop the machine and bring the dough back into the center of the bowl. On the other hand, for lower hydration dough, the KA is awesome. Powerful, easy to use and clean. No drama. Hasn't shown any sign of balking (until you get to really low hydration doughs).
My only complaint is that I'd like to see a dough hook or cycle path that functions better with higher hydration dough.
Slightly off topic.... I bought a refurbished KA artisan on amazon for $175. Love the refurbs.
I do scrape the bowl every now and then to ensure full incorporation of dough. And I don't find that to be a complaint since I enjoy that part, and see professional french bakeries do the same bowl scraping.
Take this with a grain of salt and as half-joking, but anything with suction cups is off the table in my book. Lol. Save them for the shower wall.
Good luck with whichever one you go with though. Let us know how your choice works for you.
My new mixer!!.jpg
it's a real winner!! it allows you to make up to 10lbs of dough in one recipe. And it kneads the dough flawlessly, like it's not even there!! I like to bake a lot, & this machine can handle the dough-kneading process. You will not be disappointed! A piture is worth a thousand words!!
Thanks for all the great comments and input.
David, Roadside, iwonder, Breadlee, Camarie.
iwonder : Thank you, for the your experienced input on the KA 6000, especially higher hydration doughs. My current pizza dough as I said is 70% and my typical bread/wheat flour dough is 66-67% hydration.
here is a video on mixing 125% hyper-hydration bread dough. Maybe, it needs some experimenting to get a technique that works for the KA & higher hydration dough? Video
----
BreadLee: Thank you, I used another KA for a few months mixing dough and know of the bowl scrape, like you, I didn't find it a big issue.
----
Camarie : Thank you, it really helps to know people love the gear they purchase, and your experience is pretty much what 90% of all the reviews I read say. Further, most are not simply defending their buying choice, but they are making positive comments about how this mixer actually works, ie "it kneads the dough flawlessly".
BTW the official capacity is 9lbs of dough, at least what they told me at Nutrimill.
----
The Nutrimill Artiste is still relatively new, so not surprised that they didn't yet receive comments from satisfied customers. But so far, those who have tried it are very happy with it, according to what they have said about it.
What's a pound? Nine pounds is still a lot! Might not be making that much dough, but it sure is nice to know that I can if I need to.
After weighing options and reading everyone's helpful replies, on this forum and another:
•Artiste owners posted they are very happy with the Artiste, and feel anyone buying it would not be disappointed.
As I mentioned my current pizza dough is 70% and my typical bread/wheat flour dough is 66-67% hydration.
re: High Hydration dough - here is a video on mixing 125% hyper-hydration bread dough. Maybe, the KA needs some experimenting to get a technique that works for the KA & higher hydration dough?
KA 6000HD dc version high hydration Video
re: scraping the bowl- I used another KA for a few months mixing dough and know of the bowl scrape, I didn't find it a big issue.
My biggest concern about the Artiste, it has a short track record of only 1.5 years. The inside parts are a mix of metal and plastic, how will it hold up over time? I asked Nutrimill if they had life cycle results from the L'Chef Artiste product testing, they were not aware of any. Honestly, they should have those results if the results are very positive. Hypothetical, a 10 year simulated mean life span based on independent life cycle testing, resulting in less than 5% failure. That would make great marketing and put a dent in KA sales for mixers in this price range.
Sadly Nutrimill does not offer an extended warranty. I can get a 3 year for the KA on Amazon for $27.
re: KA Professional 6000HD 1 hp DC Motor
I have read, the 1 HP is really a 1.3hp with a circuit board limiter. Thus, the motor should last hopefully a long time. If anyone wants that reference I can search and find again.
joecox2 experience with the KA 1.3hp DC version cranking out 100+ loaves a week, each batch is enough for 4 9x5 loaf pans (FYI that is the size I use), making many different styles of bread. See the comparison below all of Professional Models DC version are built with metal gears, plus the levers and plastic inside and outside is metal on this model.
See the comparison below all of Professional Models DC version are built with metal gears, plus the levers and plastic inside and outside is metal on this model.
Below is a Spec Comparison for the KA Professional 6000 HD DC motor.
FINAL DECISION
Apparently, my asking questions on this forum and another has prompted others to buy the KA Professional 6000HD. I have been watching Amazon for over 6 months hoping the new model 6000hd would go on sale, and there had been 10 refurbished left for 6 months. I checked last night only 3 available. The Professional DC models have 4.5 to 5 stars thus very satisfied buyers/users. They have a long track record of reliability.
I purchased the KA Professional 6000HD 1hp DC motor for $260. I applied for Amazon Prime Rewards Card to get the $80 gift card for opening CC acct. Redeemed the gift card, that makes the price $180 + $27 for 3-year warranty + tax.
The discount of $80 + a 3-year warranty made the deal too hard to ignore. If I am not happy, I return the mixer within 30 days and get the Nutrimill.
I pay off the card, destroy it, and close the cc account. Another $80 gift card in my future :)
The refurbished KA Professional 6000 HD 1HP DC motor arrived, I wasn't there to receive however a friend was, I was a little ticked off to see the shipper failed to have the KA turned upright, the box was on it's side according to how friend observed the shipper handling the KA.
I would love to tell you all is GREAT and this is a keeper. However, I think there is an issue.
•The appearance is perfect, everything looked totally brand new.
•Speed test without dough, was mixed, I heard a clicking at higher speeds.
•The beater paddle clearance even after adjusting could be an issue.
•The initiation test, 800 grams of bread flour, 200 grams of whole wheat flour, IDY, sugar, salt, butter, 66% hydration.
•I am concerned there might be some gear grinding issue noticeable only under load at above speed 3. I will test 2000 gram flour load this weekend, checking to see if the noise is worse and if the KA struggles with this 4 loaf load.
Typical KA bread dough complaints were there lol, not mixing well, needs scraping, dough at bottom seems to not get mixed.
I did push the dough around with scraper and turn over 2x. *Remember, I am really a noob about using a KA mixer. (I did get to use a much smaller one a couple of years ago for a couple of bakes.) I did find that I could get the dough to mix better by sliding the speed up to 4 or 5, then back to 2 or 3.
Procedure:
•I put water in then flour on top (not sure if this is proper is how I did it in my breadmaker.
•2 min - shaggy mess with 85% of water
•20 min- autolyze this was only water, flour.
•5 min speed 2 adding remaining water & ingredients. I added the remaining ingredients to the side of the bowl.
*Note I had seen 2 videos using dye colored flour & water + another ingredient that shows the KA mixer not thoroughly mixing the ingredients.
•To make sure ingredients were mixed I pushed the dough a couple of times with silicone spatula and turned the bottom 2x.
•10 min speed 2-5 until dough smooth. After 2 min I did 5 min autolyze pause.
Bowl was fairly clean, dough fairly smooth
• 1-hour bulk dough rise in mixer bowl until double.
• soft deflate, fold the dough on floured bread board until nice shaped round.
• approx 40-45 min 2nd bulk rise. I do a double rise.
• soft deflate and fold, divide dough for 2 loaf pans.
• Final soft fold dough, shape place into 2 loaf pans
* The ambient temp was low to mid-80s so did the proofing on the counter.
• Final pan proofing 45-60 min
• Bake 375 10 minutes, turn pans, bake 350 20 min, check doness, usually requires 5-15 min more at 300-350 depending on doneness check.
First Bread from the refurbished KA Professional 6000 HD 1HP DC motor. Note my bread has been confined to either "No Knead" round rustic loaves or a couple of sandwich loaves a week + 2 or 3 14" pizza using a bread machine to mix dough then used a loaf pan to bake. My breadmaker died in January, so I have been mixing by hand.
Nothing special here, just simple loaves of sandwich bread, maybe a little over proofed.
I enjoyed using the new to me mixer.
Click for Full Size
Comments welcome on how to improve technique or procedure.
If you want the recipe, for 9.25x5.25 loaf pan, just ask :)
KA is offering this mixer, as its name implies. Commercial mixer. It is supposed to be a commercial mixer, meaning that it can be used in a commercial food service kitchen - yet it has a label posted somewhere on the machine; "For household use only!"
Now how can that be?!! It's so confusing!
Looks great! Glad you're enjoying your mixer. Keep posting your breads. Thanks!
The one that I painted in orange is still not ready yet. Haven't finished the touchup work yet. The very heavy Model G had not been cleaned for painting yet. So they are both not being used yet.
Any mixing to do, the Nutrimill Artiste can handle it.
UPDATE! 7-17-19
I have decided to return the mixer for exchange. So far I have mixed 2 bread loaf load about 1750 grams, 3500-gram load for bread, an 875-gram load for a single loaf, 2000 gram load for 4 14" pizza dough.
As I said before the mixer looks new, the bowl, cord, body, everything looked perfect.
Problems:
• Doesn't help on 1st start that moving the speed switch nothing happens. I had to move it 2x and it worked. This problem happens every usage, sometimes on restarts, some times when changing speeds motor stops, again sliding speed selector back n forth 1 or 2x it will work again.
• Ticking noise, there was no ticking/clicking noise during the 1st usage, however, at higher speeds the gears had an overloaded sound, and this was with nothing in the bowl. The Ticking/Clicking noise is reported by hundreds of unhappy KA users. What is interesting is the ticking noise is not consistent, one time it's there the next it's not.
• Gear grind sound, low 1 2 3 speed the mixer usually sounds great except for the sometimes tick or clicking noise, however at higher speeds you can hear a much heavier grind sound. Fortunately, a pro sourdough baker has her unboxing and 1st usage of her KA Professional 6000HD 6qt. No tick/click no gear grind our harsh sound, so I have been using her video as the benchmark. For her video see the original post.
• Bowl Adjustment. The Adjustment has the bowl at the max position, as a clearance check, I dropped a tiny amount of flour in the bottom to see if the blade would touch, it doesn't, if I put a business card in the bottom of bowl flush with the bottom, the blade touches. I can't lower the bowl any lower. I not sure I will need to but, I do see on the plastic of the beater blade some rub marks. I haven't really used this blade yet so not sure if I have a real problem.
3500 grams of dough didn't seem to be much of a problem, the mixer didn't even get warm. Note I mixed the 3500-gr and the 2000-gr pizza dough about 40 min apart. The mixer motor was slightly warm to touch but definitely not hot.
The mixer is very useable, had I bought it on Ebay used, I would be ok with it. But I bought via Amazon, and the mixer is advertized as factory refurbished, meaning it was reconditioned back to new condition. With the speed switch + Clicking + gear grind sound + bowl adjustment, combined this indicates whoever worked on this mixer didn't do a good job.
The danger is, will I get a better mixer or a worse mixer? I choose to jump on the KA/Amazon mixer roulette wheel and hopefully be a winner :)