April 30, 2019 - 9:22am
top splitting rye bread
am i to presume that i didnt steam my oven enough and as a result ended up with too many large cracks on the top of this mostly rye sourdough bread (it was 80% rye, 20% wheat)...thanks
i knew the minute i put it in that there would be a moisture issue...
anyway thoughts please im trying to make an aesthetic looking loaf. this one tastes great but i need to sort out the top...it was well docked by the way.
I'm assuming this was a very soft, almost a thick batter, dough. What percentage hydration was the dough? For breads like these I normally bake when a couple of holes just begin to appear on top. This normally means the rye is perfectly proofed for a smooth top.
Yep it was a wet cement - it was 100%+ by the time I had done sourdough, soaking and final water...I too wait for a few holes and cracks - today I may have gone early because I was under time pressure - so you think it’s simply an eager underproofed dough and not crust hardening too quickly?
I think it still looks good. Rugged and rustic looking but still an even rise with no bursting out the sides which would hint at a crust forming too quickly. Normally if it does crust over too quickly then you do get a smooth top but then it splits along one side, where the steam tries to escape, and it continues to rise lopsided. So I'm thinking under proofed for a wet cement like rye dough. I'd be happy with your results but if it's a more smooth top you want then let it proof a bit more.
Looks very tasty!
Thanks abe your advice is always good ?
Got a rye bread in the oven right now... https://www.daringgourmet.com/vollkornbrot-german-whole-grain-seed-bread/
Delicious! Turn it into a sourdough. Swap the yeast for starter and aim for a long ferment. This bread needs time for the seeds and grain to absorb all the water. When risen and lovely and gooey it's ready to pan. Recipe doesn't ask for a final proof but I give it one. It's a very forgiving recipe and you can play around with it. Hope you try it.
I will here’s a good one too (it’s one of 4 great ones) I often make the German style one - really good bread @ https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.thebreadshebakes.com/2013/01/100-percent-pure-rye-bread-recipe/amp/
A few more rye recipes to try. I'll try the German style one first!
Wandering through rye territory has been fun -- so far!
Keep on baking;
So i'll have to save some from last weeks bake which was spelt. It asks for rye bread but it's only 50g and spelt does compliment rye. Never done one before and should be interesting to taste the results.
its a great bread abe try it....and adding a bread soaker is fantastic old idea - i just add whatever is at hand
I have always chalked off rye splitting to poor gluten characteristics of the grain.
To me, your bread looks great.
But there are types of bread where you want this kind of result! (and for which you score the surface of the loaf to encourage it.) I wouldn't call it a poor characteristic, just a characteristic that wasn't wanted this time. Something that you can influence by making a minor change or two, though it may take a bit of experiment.
thanks Danny - tastes good but i have this aesthetic thing about bread..
You've left out so much detail in putting the loaf together and baking it.
... you mention soakers?
Covered? Covered bake? Temps?
From the parchment lines, I'm inclined to guess it was too wet a dough. Rye dough has memory so it will split along the spooning in seams unless you give the dough a good smoothing around wth a spatula or scraper.
What about any bulking? Did the dough go from straight mixing to the pan?
Sourdough...rye or wheat? Did it taste good and sour before it went into the dough? How much sourdough starter to fresh flour?
Waiting on that crumb shot. :)
yes it was a wet dough and i spooned it in and then gave it a good smoothing with a spatula...the only soakers were cracked rye and wheat kernels had soaked up all their liquid by the time they went in - seeds were toasted and added without soaking as i wanted texture. I bulked for 2 hours in bowl then proofed for 2 hours in pan and then into oven @ 200C for 75 minutes.
I was going to cover it with tinfoil but it got messy so i used a tray of boiling water. However, I usually put tray in to preheat so its red hot when water goes in and creates alot of steam. Because i put it in at last minute it went in cold. Result, slow steam. So i think that along with underproofing was reason. I should have waited til i saw those tell tale holes and cracks but i had to collect my daughter so needs must. anyway heres crumb shot. It tastes delicious. I just need to make it look delicious and im sorted.
i make this in 3 stages:
sponge I 180g sourdough (14 hour sour)
sponge II = Sponge I + 180g cracked berries (presoaked), 180g water, 20g honey, 180g toasted seeds (10-12 hour sour)
final dough = Sponge II + 270g wholemeal rye, 90 wholewheat, 16g salt, 200g water (approx) (2hour bulk + 2hour proof)
it tasted great before and after.
it was like wet cement which is how i do my german style 100% rye
I might have to give this a try sometime; I like the idea of adding honey to a rye loaf…
Keep on baking!
and the 180g sour could be reduced. You have 180g sour to 360g fresh flour, a 1:2 ratio which doesn't give much glue to hold the loaf together. The soakers will give up moisture and steam the loaf while it bakes. So the dough can be a little stiffer than a 85% hydration rye dough feel. Try reducing the water first and get a slightly stiffer and more shapable loaf.
I think it was closer to overproofing than underproofing. You've got that lower wet stripe up from the bottom of the loaf which can indicate the matrix was weakening or there was just too much moisture in the loaf. The cracks are saying there was lots of moisture so not sure how the steam pan was needed.
If you find that reducing the hydration (all things considered equal) is not helping, reduce the amount of rye sour to 150g and shift the dry flour and water to the recipe. Rye sourdough should rise slowly not fast.
One thing I found with bulking high % rye sour dough is that with a delicate matrix, the bulk rise is often shorter than the final proof. Example: if the total fermenting time before baking is 4 hours. Half would be 2 hours but shape before 2 hours, about a quarter of an hour earlier to avoid breaking the matrix. slow simple folding like one letter fold, or roll into a log does a lot. Don't over do it.
lots of info there - i will do that. Ill lower rye sour and final hydration. Looking back on it (this is my 2nd attempt) i added 75g more water this time around to get a wet dough. Ill stick to my original 100 - 125g water in final dough. Generally the bulk is 1-2 hours and the final proof the same but ill be sure to keep the ratio of bulk:proof times in mind. I was waiting for those tell tale holes that never came which is why i went over 2 hour mark and then put it in...
and yes i dont really shape just use my scraper to push into a log shape and then in with wet hands and flatten with spatula
Im new to rye sourdoughs so im always inclined to steam even if it is a wet dough. Id docking enough if its a wet dough?
i do a 100% rye sourdough with none of these problems so this is annoying me....
ill make another and see how i get on...
lowering the hydration may slow down the fermentation. If it's not enough, eventually reduce the sour. You're doing quite well and it's just a little tweak. :) Nice crust colour all around and good grain distribution and the grains have cooked nicely as well.
Thanks mini I’ll do that next; lower the hydration. It tastes good so just need to get it better