French Clay or Cast Iron
I'm relatively new to baking artisan breads. I've worked my way through FWSY and the bug has bit hard. I'd really like to make nice baguette at home, though from what I'm reading heat+steam are always key. That can be hard on a home kitchen cook such as myself that does not have access to a steam injection oven.
From googling online I'm really only seeing French clay baguette cookware (Emile Henry) and some mention the Fourneau Bread Oven (cast iron rectangle basically, which would also be nice for a row of rolls etc.). Conceptually, the Fourneau seems like it would work the best, however, I'm seeing scant reviews of it online and most people seem to use the clay bakers. Is there a difference, or preference for which is best for a home baker? The clay molds have three holes at the top, which I find odd because wouldn't we want the steam to stay inside?
Any thoughts are much appreciated!
I have the EH baguette baker and use it often. I guess you're referring to the glazed model. The holes at the top don't seem to cause any significant loss of steam. To insure adequate moisture, I let water run into the top and soak in, which is not glazed. Also, I don't preheat mine. Perhaps it takes a bit longer to bake, but I'm not fond of placing dough in a hot baker. It may require a bit more baking time. I remove the lid after about 20-25 minutes to allow the bread to brown and get very good results with it. The only drawback is that it can only bake smaller loaves, given the interior dimensions.
Thank you! Good idea on soaking the inside, non-glazed lid. Can I ask why you do not like placing dough in a hot baker? That's the way I've been doing it, though with the EH most of the steam would escape pre-heat is my assumption.
I read that some preheat the EH baker, but I don't for several reasons.
1 I don't like the idea of handling the baker at 475F. Easier and safer to handle it at room temp.
2 The instructions that came with it don't say to preheat it (nor do they say not to). I guess I'm mostly following the instructions and have continued to do so out of habit.
3 If I tried to pour tap water into the hot lid, I suspect the thermal shock would cause it to break. Wetting it under running tap water at room temp presents no risk.
4 I do the final proofing in the baker with the lid on, not on the work surface under a towel or plastic film. Easier.
That's all I can think of.
Thank you, I appreciate your thought process. Agree hot clay with cold water = disaster.
Few of us on TFL have steam injected ovens, yet obtain superior oven spring and crust formation. IF you have an electric oven and want to bake baguettes, that is easy to do. [the hard part, of course, is the baguette itself ;-) ]. Regardless of the type of bread you wish to make, be it baguette, boule or bâtard.
1. Get a baking deck for your oven. Many use stone or stainless steel. Mine is a cut to size 3/4 inch granite remnant from a countertop fabricator for USD $20.
2. Create your own steam:
Google "steaming towels site:thefreshloaf.com". and "lava rocks site:thefreshloaf.com" and you will see a plethora of entries on TFL where people use these. Either one or the other. Or a combination of the two, as I do.
I understand that a number of folks prefer to bake in cloches or other bakeware. But these are limiting in shape and size and therefore functionality. I'm not knocking them, just explaining their limitations.
alan
Appreciate the insight, and agree in searching online for this type of bake ware size seems to be the biggest limitations (and they aren't cheap). I have a gas oven and can try googling and experimenting with the other steam methods.
New to the site, much to learn :)
I love the EH ceramic baking pieces. I have most of them. But to be honest the baguette is my least favorite. I don't really like the size they have chosen. It works great and I get a nice loaf, but it is the only piece of theirs that I find constricting or limiting when it comes to size. I think that their italian bread loaf baker would work really well (albeit, one loaf at a tiime) but I haven't picked on up yet.
Agree, the EH baker does have its size limitation, but since it's just me and my wife, three smaller loaves are fine for us.
To the baker guy, with a gas oven, you likely have so much venting that creating steam and trapping it in the oven will be close to impossible. You will probably be better off with one of the many methods to trap the moisture that escapes from the dough in a container, rather than adding steam. Options include Dutch Oven, cast iron combo cooker, or roaster, or a clay cloche. Downsides of the clay is the risk of cracking or breaking, downside of cast iron is the long preheat time, if you want to preheat, and the weight. Another option, and one member has done some testing with a temperature probe, is to use a baking stone or steel, with a cover like an inverted pan, or roaster pan. Someone used to sell a pan that had a small hole, with a portable steamer that let you inject steam into the inverted pan, though I could not find it doing a quick search.
I have baked directly on my 3/4" stone many times. To trap, rather that inject, steam I use an inverted disposable aluminum baking pan that completely covers the stone. Same principle as the EH baker but allows for larger loaves. But we're getting away from the OP's question of whether a clay or cast iron baker is better. THAT question hasn't been addressed.
Well I would disagree with your premise which takes us back to the question. I don't think metal put over the top is the same principle. While it will trap steam there is a huge difference with the heat transfer using metal and clay.
To the bigger question, I have posted on TFL more than once, I am of the belief clay gives a superior bake. The reasons are the same as why people love to bake in a brick or clay oven. The heat conduction of metal is very "severe"in comparison. I think this is why you often see posts about burnt bottoms in metal dutch oven. If you look up rates of conduction you will find: cast iron is 55, brick is .47, clay .6-2, so a big difference. So cast iron is conducting at a much higher rate. You don't find people saying they would love to bake bread in a fully cast iron oven. But there are centuries of proof that the consistent strong radiant heat of break and clay is superb.
In the end I think many of things things can be compensated for. Obviously people are getting amazing loafs out of cast iron dutch ovens. There are tricks for the bottoms and other issues. Good clay is expensive and I am sure there are a number of other factors each person has to consider. But, I do think side but side all things equal clay will outperform for bread baking.
Thanks, curious what are your thoughts on the clay cracking/breaking. The EH ones I see online say they can go up to 500, which should be the limit of the bread I'm making anyway. Do you just mean handling/chipping over time? The overall consensus seems to be clay pot to bake in with added steam tricks for oven (the lava coal idea is interesting) instead of wetting the clay itself as it would burst if pre-heated or lose steam during preheat depending on when the water is added.
Overall, good discussion!
I have never had a chip or crack with lots and lots of bakes. I have heard of it happening with some other brands though. I get the sense this is a case of get what you paid for. I always heat the EH to 500 without a problem.
If you are referring to my comment about cracking the lid, what I meant is that I'd be afraid to pour water over it if it was preheated to 450F +. I would see no cause for concern if it is gradually brought up to that temp from room temp.
If you are not worried about size then it is great, there are three slots which is actually a lot of bread. So, for two people you could bake enough.
Sorry my comment was not clear, I wasn't talking about the Emille Henry, I was talking about clay in general versus cast iron. In general, you have to try pretty hard to break a cast iron or enameled steel DO or combo cooker. You could preheat it in a very hot oven, and throw a large loaf of dough on it right out of the fridge, and I don't think it would crack. You could even put an ice cold cast iron DO straight into a hot oven, and it won't have a problem. You cane even put it right on the range under a burner set on high to quickly warm it up ( which is what I do with my combo cooker ) and it will still be fine.
On the other hand, most clay oven manufacturers warn against thermal shock, saying it can lead to cracks. I bought a Sassafras clay baker, and read most of the posts here on it before I started using it. I didn't track the numbers, but a fair number of posters said that they developed cracks in a clay baker - some clearly from thermal shock, some just developed over time and the poster didn't say why. So while it may be true that some clay bakers are resistant to thermal shock, ( Emille Henry's site says its cloche, which is glazed, can go from a freezer to a 500 degree oven ), other manufacturers of unglazed cloches such as Sassafras specifically advise against thermal shock, and specifically recommend against putting a cold item on the preheated base.