Is This Lebanese Bread?
My wife just made some 'Lebanese bread'. Flatbread. Cooked in a frying pan (no oil though).
Dough mixed in a dough mixer. Simply flour and water I believe it was, she said.
Seemed too chewy to me. And damp. The finished thing having a sort of 'grey' or wet look for the most part except around the higher 'bubbles' or whatever which bubbled up and got browned by the contact with the pan and the heat.
I said do it in the oven instead and she won't, says that's all wrong. She's thinking of those places in the world where they just slap some thin kinda pizza like round of dough on a hot rock or something and it cooks there...
Fine, I'm thinking of that, too, I like that. But this just doesn't seem right. Can anyone hazard a guess at what's going on here? Is she right or wrong in any aspect of all this?
I took a picture but it doesn't show the 'dampness' very well at all.
I will try to attach it anyway.
Ah... it's gone to that 'top of the post' thing... h ope that's alright..
and baked on a hot plate can be any number of middle eastern flat breads. Indeed this was the way to make bread before the discovery of leavening.
To get it just right I suppose one would have to get the dough consistency just right and the "hot plate" the right temperature. I've seen this being done and the dough is very thin and just a minute on each side. Misjudge the dough consistency and thickness and then baking in a frying pan which might not have an even temperature nor the temperature being high enough could end up with what you're experiencing.
Lechem is right-it could be any number of flatbreads as that is a preferred way in many parts of the world. Some are leavened, some are unleavened-either with chemicals like baking soda or yeast. Some are enriched with fats, dairy or eggs and many are simply grain and water. Food is made with what is locally available.
Suggestion- let the doughball sit for about 1 hour before stretching out and cooking. Cover with a damp tea towel. It relaxes the dough and makes it easier to stretch/roll thin. Pan/hotplate/rock/tandoor/oven needs to be pretty hot.
Tortilla, lefse, lavash, naan, chapati, roti to name a few
Here is an interesting read:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatbread
I grew up in a neighborhood where every other store was Lebanese and recall eating plenty of fresh Lebanese bread that we'd get for 10c a pop -after waterpolo practice it was some of the best bread I can remember eating - not sure if it was just because we were all so thrashed from getting up and swimming in the freezing cold at 6am. At least to my knowledge this looks rather thin and chewy :\
to me. The spots should be much darker and this would end the wet thing going on as well. Just give it more time on the heat both sides
Thanks everyone for the input.
Yep. I think hotter. It really shouldn't be 'wet' should it?
I'm not the cook but I'll try to make some and see if I can do better. Bewildering variety out there. As in that Wiki link.
I'll try to stick to her supposed recipe: just water and plain flour. Might add a little oil. Appeals to my imagination because it's reminiscent of the recipe supplied by god (?) in the bible, I think - 'mingle a little oil' ? - to the Israelites to make their unleavened bread.
Not that I'm religious that way but it just catches my fancy...
This one looks about right: http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/quick_flatbreads_43123
See how I go....
Well I tried it and got better results but the inside is still 'wet' - which basically means uncooked.
This is not how 'real' flatbreads are is it?
Can't go hotter, I find. Halfway on the electric hotplate is enough. Else it burns. But lengthen the time from the 'one minute' the recipe stipulates to what, maybe five minutes? I don't know. But a long, long time and it is still uncooked inside, gluey, soft, wet.
While the outside is crisp and flaky. Like Matzos I'm thinking, if I remember them right.
I'm thinking the dough needs to be rolled out really, really thin and then I'd probably get two crisp outsides and a void inside. Take them off quick if I want something softer.
Now what if I want something thicker? A chapatti is thicker, I think, vaguely remembering. I can/will look at some recipes but the good thing would be to know the general principle here: for thicker flatbreads do what? Less water and longer cooking at a slower heat?
You know they make a lovely bread in China by slapping a round of wet dough onto the inside wall of a drum with a fire inside it down at the bottom. The drum about waist height, quite big. And with the walls prepared, plastered or something I think.
It comes out quite thick. 20mm or more, 3/4" - 1" I'd say. Then the slice that in half to make a pocket and stuff it with a meat mixture. Very delicious. I'd like to make a bread like that. But I've no idea if it is a 'flatbread' or an oven bread, a yeast bread or what.
I tried to take a pic of the inside showing the outside dry sides and the wet uncooked interior...
Flour and water just make a pasty dough that can become doughy when cooked. It will be especially so if you are using a strong flour or bread flour.Let the dough sit for 1-8 hours before cooking or add some leavening (baking powder/baking soda or yeast). It wouldn't take much to lighten up the dough a bit. When I took an Indian cooking class, the most important step in making a roti or chapatti was to rest the dough for at least an hour but 6-24 was better, taking care not to let it dry out.
Even without added yeast, the natural yeasts present on every grain of wheat and in the subsequent flour will contribute if it is left for more than an hour. That is why Jewish law has very strict standards on how long a mixture of flour and water can sit before being considered "leavened" and I believe it is under an hour from mix to cook for matzoh.
Who knew such simple bread could be so "difficult". Keep trying and asking questions.
I could add yeast. My wife has that always available.
I feel more like using yeast than 'self raising' flour because I don't like the idea of bicarbonate of soda and whatever else is in it - is that purely irrational?
I like the idea of just letting it stand and perhaps gain some leavening from yeasts in the air.
The jews were not allowed to leaven their bread? Not at all or just on special days? I do have vague memories of reading something about them having to refresh their bread once a week - start the week with an unleavened mix which I suppose means a mix that hasn't been 'standing' for the week.
Can a mix stand for a week? Be kept viable for a week? It would slowly gain yeasts from the air I'm thinking. And get lighter and lighter. That's the bit that's interesting me.
You probably won't like what else grows on your dough if you leave it a week. it is self-limiting as to how "light" it would become doing it this way. Just leave it a few hours and see if there is a likable difference. It should be easier to handle and stretch thin as the gluten relaxes.
Bicarb. of soda has been around forever and I view it as equivalent to Sodium Chloride (salt) or acetic acid (vinegar). It doesn't phase me.
Bread looks tasty! Syrians make this bread too (Lebanese and Syrian people are the same), and what's known as "Lebanese bread" is pretty much a universal Levantine bread. Lebanese bread is like a very thin pita. There should be a big pocket (or at least that's the goal of the bread so you can scoop all that yogurt and olive oil). I second the suggestion of you adding yeast or levain to the dough and baking it at a very high temperature. Make the dough, separate into balls, let proof, then roll out very thin into rounds. When I make my bread (and I do make a batch of this bread every single morning) I heat up my cast iron skillet and place a small rack over a different stove burner. You can also just preheat a pizza stone for as hot as an oven goes and bake them on it for about 7 minutes. The stove top method really insures pockets no matter how off my measurements are. Plop a round of dough onto the hot cast iron and cook for about 10 to 15 seconds (depending on how thin or thick the round is) then flip onto the other side and cook for another 10 seconds. After that, transfer the round onto the rack of the second burner so that it's directly touching the flame, and leave for a few seconds it should puff up completely. It takes a couple of tries to get the hang of stove top baking in order to get a solid pocket before the bread starts to burn. This might take practice for some but just know that no matter what happens you'll end up with a tasty product that freezes very well! Hope this helps! I'll get around to posting my recipe with pictures one of these days.
happy baking!
Thanks for that. I'm looking forward to seeing your recipe and as much extra info as you'd like to provide.... I like the idea of the cast iron skillet... I don't have one.... it'd be worth getting one just for this you think ? I think so.
And then a rack over a burner? Don't have gas. Only electricity. Well we've got a gas bottle and a big, big burner ( maybe 200mm diameter - three rings of holes ) Maybe i should fire it up, get a cast iron thing and fire up the gas burner and get in the habit of cooking flatbread on it every day?
Better than hassling with an electric stove?
But if I do use the electric stove then I guess the idea for that second burn is to get the bread as close to searing heat as possible without actually burning it? I could make up some kind of rack for that I guess.