Tartine's Ode to Bourdon using dabrownman's method
I used Tartine's Ode to Bourdon quantities and types of flour but followed dabrownman's suggestions for getting a lighter crumb and better oven rise. Well, the oven rise definitely worked, however, the crumb was very similar to the one I got using Robertson's extended autolyse. This one was a tad lighter but not by much. This might have been my fault as I think I cut the bulk ferment by one hour and the retarded proof by 3 due to work commitments. Anyhow, here is what I did:
1. Sifted ww flour and white ww flour to extract the larger pieces of bran. I ended up with 250 g each of sifted flour for a total of 500 g.
2. Used all of the bran to make 3 builds of a levain, each 4 hours apart. Put into fridge for about 36 hours.
3. Pulled the levain out of the fridge and let it rest at room temp for 2 hours. No action so I put it into the oven with the light on for an additonal hour where it rose about 25%.
4. Meanwhile, I autolysed 500 g of high extraction flour (partially sifted flour from our local miller), and the 500 g of the sifted flour above as well as 70 wheat germ. The high extraction flour and wheat germ were right out of the fridge (where I store it) so I used 800 g of 110F water based on the 240 rule. This sat for 3 hours.
5. I added 150 g of the bran levain, 25 g salt and 60 grams of water. I pinched and folded until it was fully integrated.
6. I then did 3 sets of 30 French folds (slap on the counter and fold method I am guessing) 30 minutes apart and then 3 sets of 4-5 folds, 30 minutes apart as well. That took 2 hours. I then let the dough rest for another hour where it looked like it has risen about 25%. This was in a large bowl so it is hard to judge. I think I need to get a straight sided tub so I can be more accurate.
7. I divided the dough, shaped it loosely into rounds and let rest for a half hour. I then shaped it and put it in the proofing baskets what were dusted with brown rice and AP flour. The baskets were put into plastic bags and then into the fridge for a 9 hour proof. I had to unexpectedly go to work today even though I am retired. I substitute as an elementary school principal when needed. So the loaves got only 9 hours of proofing rather than the planned 12 as outlined by DBM.
8. Oven was pre-heated to 500F for 45 minutes. Loaves went into dutch ovens. Twenty minutes later, the temp was lowered to 450F. Lids were removed at the half hour mark, and then the loaves were baked uncovered for 20 minutes. I removed them from the DO and put them on the oven shelf for the last 10 minutes to colour more deeply.
The flavor was awesome and I do like the chewiness of the bread. I just wish I could get a much more open crumb. The Tartine 3 book shows a very open crumb and I am jealous I can't seem to achieve this with the similar flours that Robertson uses. I may cut back on the high extraction flour and include more AP flour to open things up. Here is the required crumb shot.
Comments
crumb you want for this bread. I fund the read very interesting including the shaping and the cool hint on how to keep the bottom of the bread from over baking in the DO
http://tartine-bread.blogspot.com/2014/01/chads-ode.html
I've got to try and make this bread using my bran techniques and se if I can give ypu and hand. The poster used some KA bread flour it seems.
And I found this one that might be helpful
http://www.theperfectloaf.com/ninety-five-percent-whole-grain-sourdough/
And this one a bit more specific
http://www.theperfectloaf.com/whole-wheat-sourdough/
I think you are well on your way to making a fine WW bread and your crumb isn't toot bad at all and thatmy bran method will eventually produce a crumb as good as any to found .
Happy baking
since the first link is the one that where I got the idea to do the overnight autolyse for my first attempt. I have been scouring the web for ideas on how to open up that crumb to the point Robertson has it and it looks like they aren't quite there either from their crumb shot.
This is what I am looking for in terms of crumb:
That image is linked off the first site that you listed. It was part of Chad Robertson's answer to the author about her asking him to clarify the overnight autolyse that he mentions in Tartine 3. He gave her his answer in text and in pictures so the picture above is one of his.
I wonder if combining your bran sourdough levain method with an overnight flour autolyse would work? Although based on your previous comments, the enzymes can cause a lot of damage with an overnight autolyse at room temp so that might not work either. So what would happen with an overnight autolyse in the fridge? Is that even a possibility? Would it need to be brought back to room temp before mixing in the levain and salt?
Then again, if you read the comments at the bottom of the page that explains the overnight autolyse, the author says that she has not had a lot of success with this method and that she is not a fan due to the extra time it adds to the process. So should I even consider going down that road?
Yes, I know, I am full of questions and I am probably dealing with changing too many factors at once. As you can tell, this is driving me nuts. Ha ha!
By the way, I really appreciate your time and help with this. If you are serious about trying it yourself, the partially sifted flour/high extraction flour I used is Brûlée Creek Farms partially sifted flour , the ww flour is Rogers No additives Whole Grain Whole Wheat flour, and the White Whole Wheat flour is from Bulk Barn. Unfortunately, there is no description on the site for the last one. This might help you in finding similar flours where you are. I know that our Canadian flour tends to be higher in protein than the typical flour in the US so I am guessing that this may account for some of my difficulties too.
Can you explain in more detail the three build levain in step 2? Is the bran being used instead of flour in the levain? Are you discarding any of this or is all of the bran being re-incorporated?
When I baked this my result was closer to yours the picture from TartineBreadExperiment. I'd bear in mind that the slice in the picture is from the end rather than middle of the loaf and there are many more medium sized wholes in the edges of your loaf, suggesting a slice from the end of one of those halves could be quite similar (once nice filters are added)
I am sure that DBM will step in here and explain more since this is his method. From what I understood, he uses all bran and I did the same except for adding a tiny bit of high extraction flour because I got nervous that all bran would not work.
I started with 5 grams of starter added 10g of water and 10 g of bran. Waited 4 hours and added 25 grams of water and 25 grams of bran. Waited another 4 hours, and added 75 g of water and 75 gr of bran, which was basically all the bran I had sifted out. This last bit, I added probably about a teaspoon of high extraction flour just to be safe. By then I had 225 g of bran levain. I only needed 150 g of levain so I ended up throwing out the extra 75 grams that were left over.
The one thing I wasn't and still am not sure about, is that do you wait the 4 hours after the last feed before refrigerating or do you put into the fridge right away? I think I waited about an hour to be sure it was growing a bit, and then I put it into the fridge.
Hopefully, I got that right. If not, I am sure DBM will correct me. =)
anything away. If I need 150 g of 100% hydration levain. I take the 150 g and divide by 2 to know how much bran I will be using in the levian 150/2 = 75. The starter will 10 g which is 5 g each of flour and water. That leaves 75-5 = 70 of bran. Then i divide the 70 by the rule of 7 to find out how much bran the first build will be. in this case 70/7 = 10 g . So the first build would be 10 g of starter and 10 g each of bran and water for 4 hours. Then 2nd build is 20 g of bran and water for 4 hours and the 3rd build is 40 each of bran and water so you end up with 70 g each of bran and water and 10 of starter for 150 g total levain. You retard the levain once it has doubled after the 3rd feeding.
If you know your bran extraction % and how much you need you can figure out how much whole grain you have to sift to get the right amount. if your sieve gives you a 15% extraction then the 70 g of bran you need for this example is 70/.15 = 467 g of whole grain flour. This is about the total amount of flour you would need for a boule of 100% whole grain bread at 100% hydration = 934 g total without the salt.
perfect food for a levain build. People forget that bran is still 20% starch and plenty enough food for the wee beasties. Bran also contains many of the minerals the wee beasties need to work at peak levels and the bran also acts as a buffer that allows the LAB to continue to produce acid at lower pH levels then they normally would be able to. Plus the majority of amylase is in the bran so there is plenty of starch being broken down into sugar, The sour can disappear in whole grain breads because it is masked by the stronger whole grain flavors. The bran is also the wettest the longest and attacked by the LAB acid the longest and in concentration so the bran is broken down more and softened - as a result much less likely to cut gluten stands giving you a more open crumb than necessary.
So you get the best of all worlds a very active levain ready to go to work, a more open crumb and better tasting bread. That is the theory and I'm sticking with it :-) And just think .....you heard it hear on the Fresh Loaf!
Happy baking
I've never heard of a bran levain before. But I love experimenting and your logic intrigues me. Gonna have to give it a try soon. Thanks for the breaducation!
Cheers!
where the phytic acid is found in grains. Phytic acid can be bad in that it binds with minerals make then insoluble precipitates that can no longer be absorbed in the intestines. Several things can neutralize the binding effects of phytic acid and allow these essential minerals to be absorbed by the intestines. They include, cooking, soaking it in and acid solution, LAB fermentation and sprouting of the grain. By putting the bran into the levain build and including sprouted grains in the bread you neutralize the effects of phytic acid ti a much greater degree.
Folks forget that if they make yeast whole grain breads without SD or using sprouted whole grains, the health extra health benefits of the whole grains is largely lost.
Then there is the myth that more insoluble fiber, found mainly in the bran, is supposed to be good for you, your bowel health, reduce constipation and lessen your colon cancer risk. There is no scientific evidence of this being true at all.
The evidence is that the insoluble fiber actually scratches the intestine and colon walls which leads to the body having to mend the damage and this may lead to a greater cancer risk. Soaking the bran in an acid environment, like a SD starter and levain and bread dough for a long time softens the fiber so little colon and intestine damage is done.
http://www.drbriffa.com/2010/12/28/think-bran-is-good-for-the-bowels-think-again/
It makes sense to me and I like a man who sticks to his convictions. ;-)
Thank you both for the details and interesting scientific background info.
It does sound like a fascinating approach - I wonder if it is what @illebrot are doing? (it is hard to check as their book is not available in english).