gluten broken due to stretch and fold?
Dear bread experts,
I am experimenting with a 10% rye bread with 1-hour autolyse with no salt/yeast, hand kneading and a few subsequent stretch and folds. The hand kneading consisted of 350 slaps and folds, and the following stretch and folds were done with an interval of 30 - 40 minutes. The gluten development seemed good after the slaps and folds as I can stretch into a thin film that can almost spread over my palm, the first two stretch and folds also looked fine as the dough looked very cohesive and can be pulled easily away from the resting bowl. The problem happened when I was doing the third stretch and fold. I'm not sure if my fingers have broken the gluten, but the the dough just couldn't stretch as far as it could in the first two rounds, and the part of the dough where my hands touched suddenly seemed to be very sticky. When I tried to do a window pane test, the film could not stretch like before and can break much more easily. However, the other side of the dough where my hands did not touch, looks quite intact as it still can be pulled away from the bowl easily.
Could I have broken the gluten due to stretch and fold? Or could I have possible overdeveloped the gluten or overworked the dough (due to either the extra 50 slaps and folds or the stretch and fold) ? Should I refrain from stretch and fold the dough whenever there is some rye content in dough?
The following is the recipe I am experimenting with. Thank you very much for your help!
| total quantity of flour (gram) | 740 |
| - WW flour (gram) | 592 |
| - White flour (gram) | 74 |
| - Rye flour (gram) | 74 |
| Vital Wheat Gluten (gram) | 7 |
| Water (gram) | 418 |
| Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C) | 370 mg |
| apple cider vinegar (gram) | 3.7 |
| Sugar (gram) | 44 |
| Milk powder (gram) | 44 |
| Egg white (gram) | 74 |
| Other ingredients(soaker): oat meal (74 gram) + water (100gram) | 174 |
| Butter (gram) | 44 |
| salt (gram) | 14.8 |
| commerical yeast(gram) | 6.66 |
cheers!
Liming
Your formula doesn't match your process. You're trying to give too much fermentation time to a dough that will naturally lose strength due to the flours that are in it. It's almost as if you're treating this dough like it was a dough made entirely with AP flour and that won't work. Also, your formula doesn't make a lot of sense. I don't understand what you are trying to make. You talked about adding extra slap and fold and you have ascorbic acid in it which is a reducing agent...I don't understand the apple cider vinegar, the only thing that would add is maybe a touch of flavor and stave off mold for an extra day? Are you making a pan loaf?
hi FueledbyCoffee,
thank you for your reply! I was making this dough purely as an experimentation, with the intention to make something like a pan loaf although I was not baking it in a pan but in a glass casserole.
I did the extra 50 slaps and folds because I felt the gluten was not as strong as what a pure AP flour dough would get by the time I had 300 slaps and folds.
I used ascorbic acid because I freeze my dough and I hope I could reduce the freezing damage by doing this.
I used apple cider vinegar to hopefully get a better rise since the majority of the flour in the dough should not be able to rise well.
Is it correct for me to say that dough with rye flour should not be fermented too long? What's the thumb of rule with baking dough with rye content?
And should I have less slap and folds if I use ascorbic acid?
Thank you!
Liming
hi, I just googled about vitamin C. L-ascorbic acid is an oxidizing agent which can helps with gluten formation. There is also ascorbic acid that can act as reducing agent, but I think my vitamin C is health supplement bought in drug store and should be the first type, the oxidizing agent.
http://www.bakerpedia.com/Ingredients/oxidizing-agents/
liming