Bannetons: cane vs wood pulp vs plastic
Happy New Year all.
After a decade of stubbornly adhering to my aesthetic preference for "free-form" batards, I have decided to make the move to bannetons. It's basically a matter of practicality, but to avoid boring readers I'll refrain from elaborating.
I have a question. In my understanding, one of the main benefits of traditional cane bannetons is to allow the shaped dough to "breathe" while proofing. However, I note that on the Birnbaum Brotformen website it is recommended that amateur bakers choose wood pulp bannetons.
I would prefer wood pulp because it is made from European spruce, whereas the cane used for bannetons is imported from Indonesia. It is claimed that the cane is sustainably grown, but there is still the carbon footprint issue. I know my purchase of a banneton is beyond petty in the environmental scheme of things, but it's a matter of principle for me.
That said, I have some questions about wood pulp. Maybe informed readers can assist.
- I assume some sort of glue or binding agent is used in the process of making wood pulp. Anyone know what it is?
- How can wood pulp allow the dough to "breathe" as cane apparently does (I assume due to air penetration through the tiny gaps between the cane).
- Is this alleged "breathing" really at all significant during the proofing process? My current free-form loaves do their proofing between blocks of wood inside a plastic container with the lid on, and therefore do not "breathe", yet they're terrif if I get the proofing time right.
A final question: if, as claimed on the Birnbaum site, wood pulp brotformen are a better choice for amateur bakers, I'm thinking plastic would be just as good and more durable. Assuming a wood pulp banneton does not allow dough to "breathe", and plastic does (at least, going by pictures of the ones Burnbaum sell), it strikes me that plastic might indeed be the best choice of all (not sure where that leaves my "principles"!!). Any informed views on plastic as a choice vs the other options?
Cheers
Ross
I've seen (and touched!) those wood-pulp bannetons, but never used them. I do have a small investment in the cane ones though - cost wise they're about the same for me. The only think that might persuade me to get the wood-pulp ones might be the multitude of nice patterns that they have in them!
I don't think that the cane ones let the dough "breathe" as such - there really are no gaps between the canes and they're tightly held in-place with staples, however the cane itself (and the the dusting flour) does absorb a small amount of surface moisture from the dough which has the effect of firming up the surface a little. (Similarly the lined baskets I use too - the basket is much more open, but the liner is heavy linen)
I've seen 2 types of plastic ones - never felt the need to try them though:
Many shapes/sizes here: http://bakerybits.co.uk/bakery-equipment/proving-baskets-and-cloths/dishwashable-bannetons.html
and just one here: http://breadstead.co.uk/shop/27-5cm-round-banneton/
I suspect that I'd end up using more flour in them to stop sticking which may have a bit of the same effect of absorbing some of the surface moisture, but who knows.
-Gordon
Thanks, Gordon, but I've just ordered a German wood pulp banneton. Decided it wasn't worth thinking too hard about, so am giving it a go. We'll see...
Cheers!
Ross
.. we could spend days debating the merits of one vs. another, but actually using one would be by-far the best way to find out if it works for you!
Good luck!
-Gordon
I have to say, personally we use cane bannetons made in China (so much cheaper for us as we bought about 100 of them)... They are a god send, with a light mist of water and some rice flour, fabulous, no sticking etc!
Hello, we have a small bakery in Spain, specifically in Murcia, and we have to buy bannetons, if you are so kind to tell us the contact to buy in China we thank you.
then these folks are worth a look:
http://www.weekendbakery.com/webshop/en/5-bannetons
-Gordon
Gracias!!!
http://www.tsingbuy.com/ , baker@tsingbuy.com >> reliable and well priced, hope that helps :)
Gracias!!!
Yep, I've seen the Chinese bannetons on Ebay. Glad to hear you find them good, and why not? I guess I'm just a bit wary of buying anything food-related from China, but that's another story.
Cheers
Ross
interesting... China's just another country? ...and for the most part, though they may have different regulations, they are quite pedantic, the people I dealt with were super professional.
They tried to harm my dog with some kind of plastics addictive that made the pet food test as having higher protein content, I think I recall similar story involving baby formula. So for me foods of Chinese origin are a no go.
Gerhard
I dont generally eat my bannetons though :P and to be fair, I wouldnt judge an entire country based on a couple of experiences, but fair enough
http://www.petful.com/downloadnow/food-repor.pdf
http://www.foodsafetywatch.org/factsheets/melamine/
Interesting read in the above link
You have a point but there is a general attitude of saving a penny here and there and not looking at what consequences may result. If this was just one incident ok but they have quite a few cases, now batteries in hover boards that explode because of short cuts in the charging circuits that saved less than a dollar per board and have caused several families to wake up to burning house a young boy in England received life altering burn injuries.
Gerhard
I totally get it Gerhard, not trying to make waves just dont like the idea of putting everyone in the same basket just because they come from the same country, Im in australia born and bred, and we have some not so great things going on here and some not so nice people running the show, but its not that we're all that way
I think this point you're making is already is fully understood. Being wary of foodstuffs from a country like China, which DOES have a poor record on adhering to health regulations and quality control of food products, does not in any way imply that one's own country is faultless and blameless, or that everyone in China is being tarred with the same brush. I did not even remotely imply that, and in my view neither did anyone else on this thread.
Cheers
Ross
Gerhard
Damn near killed my cat as well. The only thing that saved his life was him refusing to eat it. A weekend at the Vet (and $800 later) to treat a near fatal kidney failure saved him. I never did get satisfaction from the Vet or the Company for the expense of an illness they caused.
It was melamine I believe (or something like that) in Scientific (something or other) brand food. It was suggested by and purchased at the Vet (and was not cheap) that was responsible.
No food related products from China here either now. In fact, I am wary of anything from China. Phuck Em.
dobie
I'm debating crocheting some basket liners; that would give a lovely pattern to the loaves! :)
Yeah, and would give your loaves a unique personalised look!
Like your nick, BTW!
Cheers
Ross
Each to their own on consuming food products from China. I have my reasons for avoiding doing so, but not going to elaborate here for fear of opening up a pro/con discourse that can't really end up anywhere useful.
And re "eating your banneton", fine to make flip remarks like that, but there's a valid point here. That is, for those who care about things like carbon footprint, sustainable goods, and taking appropriate precautions to ensure toxins do not come into contact with food-related products, places like China, where the bottom line is generally the overwhelming priority, are not the best sources of anything to do with food. Freedom to disagree is a given, as is the right to an informed opinion.
Cheers
Ross
I appreciate your sustainable /carbon conscious view, Im vegetarian and generally use as little rubbish and pre packaged consumables as I can, we dont have air-con and so on, there are many detail and far bigger contributing factors in my mind than chinese bannetons.... plastics at all for example, so many..... and unfortunately I dont believe china is alone in its bottom line mentality, most nations and most materials come with an environmental cost but as you say - each to their own :)
Hi Ross good to see you back on TFL, I have a number of those Chinese cane Bannetons , I bought them for work but decided that I would keep them for myself. I would be happy to loan you a couple I have both round and oblong so that you can compare them side by side to the ones you are getting. They cost $10.00 each which was cheaper than anything else that was available. Plastic ones should be really cheap and id happily use them but the price is silly. just thinking if one of those oblong fruit juice bottles cut down might do the trick.
kind regards Derek
Great to hear from you, too.
The plastic fruit juice bottle is good thinking! Also, plastic milk cartons cut in half lengthwise might work well. Haha - think I lashed out on the wood pulp banneton too soon. Always enjoy trying out free workarounds! Hang on, that's what I've been doing for 10 years, and decided to get the real thing. Now I've confused myself. Not difficult!
Ta v much for the comparison offer. Will email you.
Cheers and Happy New Year!
Ross
I visit Taiwan annually for about 6 weeks each visit. Some years we visit in the spring and fall. We were in Taiwan in 2008 during the "expose" of the Chinese milk products. I had to return some Mr Brown instant coffee that contained that milk shipped from China. And yes Amber, this is a problem not isolated to China. However, in most western countries a free press will often bring this to the attention of the public. In this instance - and probably others - this information was suppressed by the Chinese government. They feared that this occurring during the Olympics might cause great financial as well as loss of face to many Olympic visitors. And that, for me, is a greater problem than the greed, profit motive, whatever it's labeled. That governments have the power to suppress vital information from the public and possibly cause more further damage and loss of life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal#On_the_culture_of_secrecy
That said, I don't believe bannetons present a health hazard.
Yes, for a discussion about bannetons; mine work very well and no one has died yet or been ill :) I respect craftsmanship and I think theyre very well made. Nuff said.
I /we go to India whenever we get the chance and for the most part, its a full scale 3rd world country, with all manner of weirdness, so yes, Im not suggesting to throw caution to the wind.
Here in Australia we have the immunisation saga, where the powers that be want to force mothers to put weird stuff into their babies, again I respect personal choice.... but holy corruption and cover ups, its rife!
So yeh, no country is free of it.
Made your points - no point in running around in circles re-making them. As for bringing new controversies into the discussion like anti-immunisation folklore, well, afraid we're doomed to agree to disagree, so let's stick to the thread topic or call the discussion quits!
In cordial but inevitable disagreement
Ross
I ended up making my own rising forms for long loaves. I can do 12 loaves at a time, with no sticking, a nice pattern and shape, and easy to use and store. You can see them at this post here.