December 8, 2015 - 6:29am
'Gredients: citron, candied, help finding
Please help me finding quality candied citron, candied pineapple and candied cherries. KA has changed its stock and solo citron and cherries and pineapple are N/A. Past sources are all OOB.
ROTM products using corn syrup are not acceptible, ie, Barry Farms. Also, 2 kg. lots are not useful to for this project.
This is an heirloom project: my mother's fruitcake, so ingredients are not flexible. The recipe is James Beard's pound cake based fruitcake from American Cookery (Little Brown), which, I assume, can be easily found on line, if you are interested.
BB
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Nuts.com has a large selection that you can buy in home baking quantities at good prices. Unfortunately, a lot of their products are made with corn syrup, but some are not. Try to be flexible with your search terms (e.g. search "candied citron" as well as "glazed citron" ) so that the site doesn't exclude items you might be interested in.
A bit pricey, but this fits your bill:
http://markethallfoods.com/candied-citron-cubes
Do y'all have Bulk Barn? If I didn't have that I'd be going to a baking or health store that sold Christmas fruit cake supplies. Many stores do this time of year.
sells candied orange slices (rind and all) in the cheese department It is also pricey but delicious, and I used it, diced, in place of citron in a stuffed lebkuchen recipe. Came in 2-3 oz containers. They may also have candied pineapple in the dried fruit aisle.
good luck!
BakerBuck
When I was a kid we used to make candied fruit for the Holidays. I couldn't begin to give a recipe, but I remember it was quite easy. And much better than the store bought. Real fruit flavor, without food coloring (if you don't want to use it) and of course, none of the nasty chemicals.
Of course, that might be off-recipe, but just a thought.
I just took a quick look on youtube and there are various videos on various fruits and rinds. It's basically simmer in a simple syrup, strain and coat with granulated sugar (or not) and then dehydrate. Some are quick, some take days depending on what and how.
dobie
When you buy candied fruit best to keep an eye on the order of the ingredients, the cheaper priced products often contain very little citrus, cherries.... but are heavy on on coloured sugar beet cubes. Definitely a case of researching what you are actually buying.
Gerhard
yy, I appreciate that. yes, nuts.com can be heavy on the corn syrup.
Maverick, I may have to bite the bullet and order this.
Jane Dough, first off, I love your moniker! No, I'm a Yankee, not a Tory., so I don't get to live in civilization.
Windischgirl, you may have candied pineapple in your WF but here in Albuquerque we are at the lowest common denominator for food in the entire country, and the sparseness of our two WFs attest to that.
dobie, I did not want to make my OP overly long, but the people who make really great candied fruit seem to be able to start with quality fruit that is quite above the mediocre quality of fruit that I can buy in the produce sections of the grocery stores out here in Albuquerque, including WF. True, some really good produce occasionally comes our way but I think we all have experienced the 'good one week, gone the next" phenomenon of the chain markets. Finding what you want and taking it home is always a gamble in quality for me. At least WF will cut in and let you sample, except they are understaffed out here. Now you've got me started...
Gerthard, you are certainly right. The trouble with my research to date is that it has ruled out everything that I have seen on line, for the reasons that you mentioned.
My lament: gone are the days when a significant number of people made their own festive cakes and pastries. Gone is the market for stores like Frederick & Nelson, King Arthur, and Dairy Fresh Candy (Boston) to sell a good selection of quality glace fruit. Going are houses and apartments where the kitchen is its own room, and generously sized, at that. Gone is the willingness to pay for quality. Whine...
Note: nuts.com is Sahadi's in Brooklyn, NY. They are the same.
The best quality that one can infer from an online description of glace fruit is here at $51 per pound, including FedEx:
http://www.histoiresucree.com/product_pages/candied_fruit_baking.html
Domestically, FormaggioKitchen has the quality but not the right varieties.
BB
Looks like top shelf product, you won't be making a $4.99 fruit cake with that :)
Gerhard
Uhhm, I don't know what to say (but I'll come up with something).
Oh, yeah, try making your own.
Altho, I guess if you are determined to spend money rather than effort, who am I to argue?
dobie
Dobie:
1. I'm not buying. Perhaps next year.
2. I saw your friendly suggestion earlier in this post. Did you have a chance to read my reply to you? It was mixed in with some other replies.
Windischgirl:
I had a chance to talk to the specialty produce guy at our Whole Foods. He explained that they have tried very hard to find a supplier of candied fruit and they have not found the quality for which they have been searching.
It seems to be an all-encompassing problem. The production of quality glace fruit seems to have declined and I blame lack of demand for that. Since it has dwindled to a small production, the glaces that look good online are treated as a special commodity, that is, candied whole fruit, fancy presentations, small quantities, high prices, limited suppliers. No longer does it appear to be a baker's supply. Low quality food industry candied fruit has replaced it as an ingredient.
P.S. Someone suggested Williams-Sonoma. No luck.
BB
BB
Yes, I did get your response, and thank you. I only wish I had more to offer. But here's the best I've got.
What has become abundantly clear from all this discourse is that by the 'Whole Foods' (and others) lack of supply, there is a market that has opened up. If one could provide quality glacee, even if just to Whole Foods, even if only during the Easter and Christmas seasons, one might do well. Not that I would be the one to do that, but still... hmmm.
And yes, at $51 a pound to the door (for quality), it is an outrageous enough price for me to think that there really might be a business opportunity here. Properly candied, this stuff has quite a shelf life, so one could build up stock in the off-seasons.
Mightychef makes a good point, that at least in terms of commercial (extended) production, some glucose with the sucrose (if I've got that right), prevents the crystalization of sugars in the syrup and thus the common addition of corn syrup, at least in commercial production.
I don't know how important that is on a small, home production scale, but that's good sugar science (from what little I understand of it).
There are probably other sources of sucrose, but again, I'm no sugar scientist. I think honey might be one, but I'm not sure. I just hope I have my 'gluco's and sucro's' correct in this conversation.
I haven't checked out all of Mightychef's links out so far, but I will.
Yet, like a broken record, I will say (with all kindness), why not try to make your own and see what happens? If it turns out well, then you'll save yourself $48 a pound (and you will know the quality of product for sure).
Regardless, I would bet your Mother would be proud of your effort.
Above all, I agree, no matter what else, we should not stoop to the 'Supermarket' crap.
dobie
We are in agreement.
The market does exist, albeit a 'niche market'.
I'm all for getting Someone Else interested in filling it; my plate is full.
Along those lines, allow me to pass along the response that I got from describing my woes to KA:
Thanks for contacting us here at King Arthur Flour. We are happy to hear you are eager to bake high-quality fruit cakes this holidays season. We apologize that we are not able to supply you with the specific items you are looking for at this time. We will pass your suggestion to carry this type of ingredient to the appropriate department; this will be considered going forward as we agree it would be a suitable addition to the King Arthur inventory.
Thank you again for taking the time to write, and we hope you find what you are looking for in the meantime. Please let us know if we can answer any additional questions or assist you further. Happy baking!
That is about as good of a reply as I could have hoped for.
BB
Yes BB,
The KA response was about as good as one could expect.
And you're right, it is a niche market, but if one could supply KA and Whole Foods (if they were willing), it could actually be a pretty large 'niche'.
My plate is also full, but as time lingers on, who knows? It's a very interesting opportunity.
Thanks,
dobie
I didn't want to get into this, but for anyone who is interested:
Corporate Whole Foods has a very high bar for any small producer who desires his or her product on their shelf.
The issues are about stability of supply (not germane for seasonal), reliability, bonding, insurance and, not the least, health compliance issues. The application process is so onerous that I am surprised that any WF store has local products. I know of one coffee roaster that has been working on her WF credentials for about a year.
Anyone wanting to sell anything at WF next holiday season better start the process now.
BB
Thank you BB
Good to know (even just as a consumer).
dobie
The "$51 citron from France really only costs $30/lb., but FedEx is $20 from France. I agree with Gerhard that it looks like a top-shelf product but also agree with dobie that the total price is insane. But compare it with this:
The only isolated cubed citron that I could find with a product description of "fruit, sugar, glucose" (no corn syrup) costs $25/lb. at Market Hall in Oakland,CA, not including shipping. I'm still not buying. The price is similar to the above but the 'picture appeal' casts it in a more anonymous character and who knows if the quality is the same, better or worse than the sublime-appearing French offering?
I put a request in to KA to consider broadening their selection next year. Someone needs to save us from Kroger candied fruit becoming the new normal.
BB
The glacee process needs some corn syrup or glucose in the syrup to help avoid crystallization in the dried finished product.
If the crystal effect is OK with you leave it out.
The problem with most commercial product is they use corn syrup exclusively due to cost considerations.
Here is a link to the process from David Liebovitz. Author, Food Critic
http://www.davidlebovitz.com/2011/02/candied-citron-recipe/
and another
http://www.davidlebovitz.com/2011/02/making-glazed-candied-fruit-citron-recipe/
candied ginger
http://www.davidlebovitz.com/2008/12/candied-ginger/
There is a recipe for candied quince from Tartine in this link
http://www.thewednesdaychef.com/the_wednesday_chef/2010/12/tartines-panforte-with-candied-quince.html
Here is a link to fresh citron
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Over-10-Buddha-s-hand-Citrus-Citron-Fresh-fruits-/111846064660?hash=item1a0a8b8214:g:dXQAAOSwwbdWOqOu
Hope this helps.
Darrell
It was likely that the discussion might have shifted to 'why is corn syrup so bad'?
I realize, Mightychef, that you are taking a balanced approach with regard to corn syrup and so you might agree with me when I state that I have nothing against corn syrup. The taste is not disagreeable to me or to millions of others who consume corn syrup in their foods every day. It is 'guilt by association' that I am trying to avoid.
By that I mean that corn syrup is the cheapest of sweeteners and its use as the major sweetener may indicate that the glace is being made as cheaply as possible; this implicates the possibility that the manufacturer is going for the lowest cost fruit, as well.
Quality glace producers use high quality fruit, and they do not do it in the late fall or winter; they do it at the height of the season of their selected moiety. For me to do it now that commercial glace is unavailable with whatever out-of-season, shipped fruit is available in the grocery store would not improve the situation.
Perhaps I will become a glace-maker, but it will be in March for pineapple, July for cherries, and whenever for citron, I have to find out.
One other thing, glace made with corn syrup is almost always too sweet, in addition to flavorless. Look at on line reviews of glaces and you will find this again and again. Good quality glace is only moderately sweet and has more fruit flavor, as one would expect.
BB
I agree fully about the observation that producers use corn syrup to cut costs.
Most syrup recipes only need a tablespoon of corn syrup for cups of glacee syrup to stall crystallization.
Like I said if you don't care for GMO corn syrup, leave it out
You can use glucose but it can be harder to find.
Cake decorator supply stores, pharmacies, specialty kitchen supply stores.
The link I included for a Citron grower on Ebay is shipping in season right now from Arizona.
It is not too late.
David Lebovitz is definitely about quality and I am sure that his recipe and technique are top shelf. http://www.amazon.com/dp/1580088082?tag=davidleboviswebs&link_code=as2&creativeASIN=1580088082&creative=374929&camp=211189
I have his ice cream book and several of the recipes I have tried are superb.
For me, the greatest pleasure comes from nibbling at my slice of fruitcake. The teeth deconstruct it, bite by bite. One bite may reveal the sweet, buttery, wheaty cake while the next nibble dislodges a cherry and the delicious cherry flavor dominates the palate. Then I bite into a pecan and the dense, chewy, oily, woody pecan flavor is center stage. Perhaps then its back to the cake, or perhaps the sticky, sweet, toasty-tasting crust.
This is much preferred to stuffing my mouth with fruitcake and having a confusing disharmony of muddied flavors sloshing around.
This is why every ingredient is important to me, or I won't bother making the cake.
BB
OK BakerBuck, I get it.
You truly know your fruitcake and I appreciate that (very much so).
It's like sex in the mouth. Uhhm, wait a minute, I'll get there.
And I do understand your 'lament'; Gone are the days, the markets and the willingness.
dobie
I feel your pain
My mother went to great effort to do her Christmas baked goods give-away.
Fruitcake, almond crescents, wedding cookies, divinity, shortbread, and several others which varied according to trends or whimsy.
A generous plate of delicious baked goods, Hand-made with great pride and a true sense of giving. Neighbors, family, and a few close friends. Many times I was tasked with the delivery of these decorated platters. People were always polite, but I still wonder.
Her fruitcake was not like any other I have tried. A tiny bit of cake barely holding together big chunks of fruit and whole or half nuts. No tiny bits of fruit or nut bits. I miss her fruitcake because it was unlike any other. Not too sweet, no alcohol, minimal spices, but huge chunks of fruit and nuts. Beautifully brown, lightly glazed on top with apricot preserves for a silky sheen.
Whole brazil, pecan and walnut halves and filberts. Not hazelnuts, only filberts.
I have always wondered if people looked upon her version of fruitcake with the same disdain that seems to have brought us to the present where the basic ingredients are no longer available.
I can remember several trips to the Grand Central Market in downtown Los Angeles because the supermarket variety was lacking in either quality or size.
I wonder if anyone else remembers or misses her fruitcake.
I was always afraid to ask. I realized during her recent funeral that most of the people that would remember are gone. She outlived almost all of her friends and family.
Was it because of the fruitcake ?
Darrell
Good memories.
Be careful, Someone might open an investigation.
Destroy the evidence.
{{{chomp}}} {{{chomp}}}
Five years I just happened to find a Buddha's Hand at the San Francisco Farmer's Market, this year and last I have found them and Etrog Citrons at farmer's markets in the Folsom/Sacramento area. I candy my own, using David Lebovitz's glaceed/glazed recipe--it takes 8 days, but oh my it is delicious. Unlike the store bought stuff. (And today I discovered my upscale local store had Buddha's hands in the produce section). I see someone above has posted a link to Lebovitz's recipes. I don't make Fruitcake, we use my efforts in Lebkuchen.
Earthy Delights has a Buddha's hand at http://www.earthy.com/Search.aspx?k=citron and yes, $12.50 per fruit is a reasonable price. Don't know what shipping is.
Look for growers (the one and only? grower is down in Stockton/Patterson area), one of the sellers had candied fruit so, maybe they are candying their own. The two kinds of Citron--Etrog and Buddha's Hands are in season NOW. November/October through Christmas I believe.
Hi fm,
I checked out the link but I am still at a lose. What is 'Buddha's Hand' exactly?
Is it constructed, or is it naturally grown like that?
TIA,
dobie
A Buddha's hand is one of the citrons. It's all peel and pith and smells wonderful. Etrog Citron is easier to work with, but I prefer the flavor of a Buddha's hand. I end up breaking of the "fingers" and slicing them so I get circles. I cut the base/palm based on how much and what shape it is. Yes, you use the pith too.
Apparently Etrog Citrons are used in Jewish festivities (uncandied). Those are the ones that look like knobby lemons.
And that is what a Buddha's hand looks like--it is a natural shape.
fm
Wow.
Thank you very much. I will research further. That is wild.
dobie
If you follow this link you will see a picture of them hanging on the tree.
The grower sold out
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Over-10-Buddha-s-hand-Citrus-Citron-Fresh-fruits-/111846064660?hash=item1a0a8b8214:g:dXQAAOSwwbdWOqOu
Thanks for that Mightychef (and fm).
From there, I did a quick Wiki search which had some pretty good basic info (opened hand, closed hand varieties, etc.).
What is the 'perfume' like? I would assume a lemon (but you never know).
I think they are absolutely beautiful and much larger than I imagined. Flavor and fragrance wise, are they are worth persuing?
Since this is the season for them, I will check Whole Foods (and the other upscale markets) to see if they have them. I would love to get my hands on one.
Horticulturely, I think it's amazing that the plant is so heavily thorned (the only thorned citrus plant that I am aware of). But for good reason, no doubt.
My sister lives in Modesto (California) and seems to be able to grow whatever she wants. Maybe I can entice her to grow these (and eventually send me a few).
I don't know if this practice is still done, but years ago I remember seeing a Liqueur sold (I think it was pear) where a whole fruit was in the bottle. Obviously, they attached the bottle to the fruit when it was small enough to fit inside, and then it matured inside and then they filled it with the liqueur. Can you imagine the same being done with one of these? That would be spectacular.
To me, they look almost 'octopus' like.
Thanks guys
dobie
Correction Sir,
Virtually all citrus have spines.
Some domesticated varieties have had the spines bred out of them, or diminished.
Some lose their spines as they mature. Sounds like humans.
Of course, old grumps like me grow them back. Sorry, another topic.
Check out these links provided for your education and edification.
The vocabulary lesson is free.
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/kind-citrus-tree-thorns-61118.html
https://www.fourwindsgrowers.com/other-growing-questions/thorns.html
Thee varieties are especially nasty in the in the thorns they have.
Flying Dragon I don't now where you lie but this plant is hardy to -10f and was widely planted here for impenetrable hedgerows.
http://www.al.com/living/index.ssf/2012/06/that_twisty_thorny_plant_with.html
Yuzu
http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/articles/detail/yuzu
Kaffir Lime We use the leaves for Thai cooking more than the fruit. Usually the fruit is picked and discarded just to prevent fruit production from inhibiting foliage growth.
Some dishes call for the zest of the fruit
Sudachi Popular in Japan and used in production of Ponzu sauce
http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/ingredients/detail/sudachi
Calamansi or Calamodin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calamondin
And a lesson in Horticulture thrown in for good measure.
Do they have Paypal available on this blog? I should be getting paid for this.
Darrell