Bouabsa style baguettes (again)
A break in the action. I'd been so busy lately with my batard thing that I neglected the simple pleasures of rolling out a few baguettes. So I took a time-out and decided to go back to the first (and easiest) of my baguettes formulae, the one that kicked off the whole thing for my attempts at achieving a good result - Bouabsa style baguettes.
As I had with my recent successes in batard bakes, I baked these directly out of the refrigerator. The original formula calls for a bulk retard, then bench warm-up, divide, shape and final proof. So I was rebelling against all of these steps as my overnight retard was with the already shaped baguettes, and no post-retard warmup.
From an external point of view, the crust is all that I would want it to be - well shaped and scored, baked dark and nice oven spring. Internally, the crumb is tight! Nothing like what I had experienced way back when the crumb just about exploded open.
So, quickly paring down the possibilities on why, it seems quite obvious that the lack of a final proof must be the culprit. For the method that I've been playing with, refrigerator-proofed, insufficient bench bulk rise - 60 minutes with three letter folds, is a likely reason as to why they didn't achieve a better crumb.
I will give these another go in a few days with a change to something or other - more likely than not I'll go for a more extended bulk rise to see how that experiment comes out. The original 60 minutes was quite skimpy on the rise time, but for now I will remain stubbornly attached to a pre-shaped retard and direct-from-the-refrigerator bake. (It's that Janet's mother thing I'd mentioned a few months back - do something just a bit different to make it your own.)
Steam released and baguettes rotated.
For comparison here is a pic of the open crumb from an early successful Bouabsa bake in Dec, 2013:
Back to the drawing board...
alan
Comments
Hi Alan, I have not been here long enough and check out every single blog of yours but I always remember you as the 'Batard Guy' and would quietly say to myself 'He should be given the title of King of Batard'. I know it would not be sounding very pleasant if I would translate it to French but you know what I am trying to say here....you are the best!
That was until Iike, hmmm......minutes ago, after reading this blog! Your baguette are looking far more superior to be honest. I really admire the way you score and those ears, oh my, are considered the trademark of your bakes. I sure know where to get my baguette if I am visiting. Am very happy for you indeed.
Regards,
Sandy
I appreciate the fine words and encouragement, but there are many many way better and more sophisticated bakers amongst us than me. No false modesty or humility on my part. It is these other bakers who pique my interest and to whom I look toward with their kitchen wizardry.
And although my French does not do well past counting to ten, I need no interpretations as to the "Roi d'batard" (sorry no circumflex on my keyboard!). One of my favored road signs (of the oh, 3 or 4 that I have) is from the hills of Umbria, Italy indicating the hill town of Bastardo is that-a-way.
My blogs do not stretch out very far into the past as I only started on TFL maybe 18 months ago, and then didn't create nary a blog for quite a while.
King? Not me, although I'll happily settle for a small fifedom!
Thank you again,
alan
baguettes but once a batardo always a batardo in my book:-) Sorry couldn't help it. Your baguettes are pretty exceptional these days even when the crumb isn't perfect. The question is which one tastes the best...... i'm guessing your San Joaquin version wins that award hands down! in any event, these look perfect on the outside and fair to Midland on the inside.
Well done and happy baking Alan
The SJSD family of breads have a more complex taste as those are levains vs. the Bouabsa IDY all AP flour breads. And since I said it, that must be the final word. Or not...
Happily, it seems as though I haven't lost a step with the baguettes.
alan
Alan, your baguettes look so good - inside and out. Which leads me to my question. Why are bigger holes desirable? Texture? Taste? I know that big holes in artisan bread is the holy grail, but I don't really know why. Can you explain this to me? Thanks so much.
~Marie
You know, I really don't have very much of a good answer for that question. A very few months ago in someone's post I posited the same question and used the same terminology as yours about the "Quest for the Holey Grail". I think that it comes down to a bit of showmanship, maybe skill, a demonstration of having a higher hydration dough shed a lot of its water and leaving behind a bunch of tasteless empty space that lets butter, jam and everything smaller than a bread box fall through.
It could be that many think that is a prettier appearance than a bread that does not display larger holes. And I also think that an open crumb is equated with the whole "artisan" mystique. BTW good luck getting consensus on what artisan really means. It has ben parried about on TFL in the past year, and I'm sure way before that as well.
However, there are those on TFL that also demonstrate quite the polar opposite, that they can have an open crumb with a relatively low hydration. Just in the past few days, someone on TFL displayed just that.
A denser bread, typically a lower hydration bread tends to be, but not always, chewier with a heavier feel. That's just my singular opinion.
Maybe for me, as this is my hobby, and I do it for pleasure as most on TFL do, it is just something to strive for. Just because...
Well, that's about the best that I can come up with!
alan
I would add depending on the formula ingredients and hydration, the bigger holes are usually a by-product of proper mixing, folding/kneading, and shaping and fermentation. When all of these things come together the open crumb tends to be lighter and just give an overall improved feel/chew to the bread. I have managed to get some pretty open crumbs from high % whole grain breads but I also end up with tight crumbs on others even with a high hydration.
Hi Alan,
I like your description about the Quest. I have made all my bread for the last 5 years. This includes panned bread (including a multigrain sourdough that is a favorite), hamburger buns, sandwich buns, batards, boules, English muffins, dinner rolls, and flatbreads of all kinds. Almost all my bread has a tighter crumb than what seems to be desirable amongst the ardent bread heads. But it is seldom heavy and dense (there are failures!).
I consider myself a bread head and truly enjoy learning new methods like Reinhart's soaker & biga whole grain bread approach. I am just a bit put off by TFLers posting pictures and lamenting that the crumb isn't holey enough. What about taste? To me, it is all about the taste.
I seldom post my boring bread recipes and pictures. Perhaps I should and start a new trend :) Thanks for the dialog.
Marie
I agree that taste belongs in the first position. But that old adage "we eat with our eyes before we eat with our mouths" certainly can apply as well. As (most of us) plain old folks populating this website are here for the simple pleasures and challenges of learning and applying a craft, who's to say that the whole package can't be of import? Shaping, scoring, baking until just done the way we each perceive them. And then trying the next time to duplicate what we got right or improve on what we didn't quite get right.
If all people want is to have a good tasting home baked bread, there are dozens of prepackaged mixes to make. Now, I'm not putting that down, to each his own and not my place to say what someone else should/should not do. But I think that by and large, people gravitate to websites like this because they see bread baking as a craft as well as an edible end result and like being associated with a group, albeit somewhat anonymous, to share that passion with. Do I know that for fact? No way, as just like almost all of the TFLers, I don't really know anybody who contributes to the site except from what they reveal of themselves in their Qs, As and writeups.
We each contribute and take away from TFL what we wish to. I don't know if I'm appropriately addressing your initial concern, and I also first stated that I too don't completely get the excitement over a bread with large holes in the crumb. Although there are good types of large holes and bad types of large holes (see "flying crust" for a few examples of bad hole types). I see myself (so far) as somewhat good at duplicating a formula devised by others, typically after a "failure" or two, and then taking it off a bit in my own direction. If the Original Poster of the bread has a product with a very open crumb, then that is what I'm looking to duplicate. Hmm, maybe that explains if for me after all ;-) .
alan
which means that for you, it's about whatever you deem important and in whatever way you want to prioritize and weight them. It doesn't even have to be the same every time. For example, I care more about shape and scoring when I bake for friends and family than for consumption at home.
Alan.. these look remarkable! Great job! Wow.. Pass the cheese, I'll pour the wine.. !
By the way, your bread looks awesome. Even with the not so perfect crumb, I'm sure most people would be very pleased and happy to bake a baguette with your results.
Have you tried the 36 hour method yet? When you can master that formula you have reached the mountain top and can proclaim you are the "Roi d'batard"
Thanks for your other comment as well. I am always learning something new, or getting reinforced some "old" fact or knowledge by rubbing virtual elbows with the likes of you and other contributors around these parts.
Back in Sept last year dabrownman kinda challenged me to try my hand at the 36 Hr. baguettes. And so I did. For a first run, I was pretty pleased with the result.
Those look spot on. Took me 3 times to get them right.
is not for the feint of heart. It takes skill, very light touch and no fear. i think you have it all The big challenge is her 100% whole wheat baguettes that have a crumb just like her white ones and why Lucy crowned her Empress Ying! These win the crumb shot but San Joaquin wins the taste crown. Now lets see those 100% WW baguettes:-)
Well done and happy baking Alan
Looking at the crumb of Alan's new baguette, I note that the crumb is noticeably tighter towards the end of the loaf, compared to the middle. I've been pondering this kind of variability for some time now, and I'd be interested in the opinions of others. Seems to me that perhaps something in the shaping is deflating the dough at the ends, and if that's the case, then perhaps it's also happening throughout the dough, but in lesser degree towards the middle.
Anyone care to speculate on the cause of crumb variability through a loaf, or the relationship between shaping and crumb openness?
btw those are just beautiful baguettes Alan. Sorry if I'm hijacking your thread with this question.
no carjacking please... Yes, I think that would be a fun topic to banter about.
As far as the crumb issue, the shaping of the dough, and especially the rolling out of baguettes seems to sometimes resurrect a saying on TFL. "To use an iron hand but a velvet glove" in shaping the dough. Baguettes especially are subject to being too easily manhandled when rolled out. So one generally must get the feel of a gently firm but not too firm placement of the palms on the dough as one rolls it out into final shape. To taper the ends of the baguette requires a little more pressure on the roll to achieve the tapering. This, I believe, is responsible for the crumb being tighter at the tips than the rest of the baguette.
alan
Nice baguettes, as usual, Alan.
Re. flavor: Clearly, I enjoy the flavor of my SJSD baguettes the most. (In fact, I'm going to have some as soon as I finish this reply.) However, for a classic French baguette, the best flavor I have achieved has been with Philippe Gosselin's Baguettes.
Re. holes: The ideal baguette crumb should be fully alveolated with thin walled holes of varying size, randomly distributed throughout. Holes can be too big. When this occurs for home bakers, it is usually an over-proofing or a shaping problem. Among pros, I think it is usually because of inadequate degassing during shaping.
For most of us, Alan's comments are spot on, IMO.
David
Yes, they are wonderful. It was a relatively quick progression through TFL's "greatest hits" baguettes for me just after I kinda had down the basics of the Bouabsa style baguettes - thanks to postings here by you and Janedo.
I'd built my first levain in late Dec. of 2013 after a month or so of working on those. Eventually abandoned as a first time attempt, my next levain was developed using Debra Wink's Pineapple Solution, and it is the ancestor of what resides in my refrigerator today.
From there I moved rather quickly through the Sam Fromatrz, your Pure Levain Baguettes (still great!), the Gosselin, your SJSD Gosselin. Finally at the start of March - your SJSD. Wow, looking back now, I am surprised that there was such a progression in only about two month's time once I decided to travel beyond Mr. Bouabsa's creation.
Never abandoned any of these as they became my stock in rotation.
Thanks, alan