July 27, 2015 - 8:06am
Swiss Farmhouse Bread
Hello!
I hope everyone is having a great summer?
I am attempting to make Swiss Farmhouse Bread and was wondering if anyone else has tried to make it for I have a question.
I have soaked the raisins for the appropriate length of time and I am now making the first build which calls for:
bread flour 5.3 oz
raisin liquid, drained 3/4 oz
I have scaled the required amounts of juice and have added the flour. I have attempted to mix to incorporate, but find that there is flour remaining at the bottom of the bowl that will not blend in.
Is this normal?
Thanks!
Kim
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.75/5.3 = 14.15% it is a wonder that any flour could be incorporated in such small amount of liquid, If the recipe calls for it to be incorporated then the recipe is a bad one. I'm guessing the recipe calls for much more liquid somewhere?
Hi dabrownman!
Sorry, it was:
bread flour 5.3 oz
raisin liquid, drained 3.4 oz
This recipe is on page 320 in Jeffrey Hamelman's book, Bread. I thought I would try it because the weather was ideal for the raisin soak (75° to 80°F is ideal).
raisin soak:
raisins, washed 2.5 oz
water 6.3 oz
first build:
bread flour 5.3 oz
raisin liquid, drained 3.4 oz
second build:
bread flour 6.7 oz
whole wheat 3.2 oz
water 6.3 oz
first build 8.7 oz
final dough:
bread flour 1lb,.8 oz
water 12.7 oz
salt .6 oz
walnuts 7 oz
raisins 4.8 oz
second build 1lb, 8.9 oz
This is my second attempt with this recipe. I am thinking now that the problem lies with the raisin soak. But still, I am scaling the required amounts for the first build. And yeah, it seems like more flour than the liquid can handle.
With the raisin soak, white mold did cover the surface of the raisins, but it never got bubbly with a sweet tangy aroma. It just got really moldy. It says to soak 5 to 6 days before the bake.
My first attempt, I started seeing mold on the 3 day. So I scaled the required amounts of juice and added the flour. I attempted to mix to incorporate, but found that there was flour remaining at the bottom of the bowl that would not blend in. The first build did not rise.
My second attempt, I started seeing mold but waited 6 days. Again, I scaled the required amounts of juice and added the flour. I attempted to mix to incorporate, but found that there was flour remaining at the bottom of the bowl that would not blend in. This first build did not rise either.
I am using good lake water (room temperature) for the raisin soak and I washed the raisins. I put the water and raisins in a glass bowl with a lid and covered it.
I do not know what to think. Maybe its the raisins? *shrug*
which is very low getting into bagel territory. The other thing i see it that there is no commercial yeasty or sourdough starter in the mix which would account for it not rising. There is nothing to make it rise. I'm guessign there was an errata with this book.
First i would get 10% pre-fermeted flour in the sourdough levain (4 oz each flour and water) at 100% hydration and get that in there and reduce the dough flour by 4 oz but add 1 oz of water to the dough liquid to get the overall hydration up to 70%
It should work fine then. If you don't have SD then then male a poolish overnight with a punch of instant or active dry yeast with 40 oz each of flour and water and use that in place of the SD levain.
Happy baking
There is nothing wrong with 57% hydration, partucularly if one uses weaker flour, particularly in the summer, when flours tend to take a bit less water. I routinely bake bread with under 60% hydration. For example, this was 59%:
I know this post is responding to the generalization about hydration, rather than to question posed in the original post, which was
"I have scaled the required amounts of juice and have added the flour. I have attempted to mix to incorporate, but find that there is flour remaining at the bottom of the bowl that will not blend in.
Is this normal?"
As the non expert here, my take is that this particular mix needs some some more water to incorporate the dry ingredients, regardless of what is assumed to be the hydration level (measurement issue, humidity issue ...??)
Is that not what you would do?
In my experience, difficulties with incorporating dry ingredients start at about 50% hydration mark. The original build in Hamelman's book is 63%, and I just don't see how this could be a problem if everything is measured correctly. That being said, if I were absolutely sure that my mix is on the dry side, then yes, I would consider adding some water.
The 63% hydration in the formula looks fine. I wonder where the experiential disconnect is.
Could it be the flour? I know the first time I made his Vermont Sourdough, I saw "bread flour" in the formula and, knowing that he was with King Arthur, I used KA Bread flour. The dough was drier than I expected for 65% hydration and I adjusted the water a little. I soon learned that his bread flour was really KA AP flour. I used that for the next loaf and needed no adjustment to the formula.
bread flour and whole wheat not weak AP flour where less water would be needed. i would be at 75% hydration for this bread but 70% will work just fine for a newbie. Nothing wrong with 59% hydration for AP flour but i would be at 68% minimum for my AP which is 11.2% protein and perfect for making French breads and flour tortillas.
Your n=bread looks great by the way and has to easy to shape and handle
Happy baking
In fact, that's not AP flour - I baked it several times with either BFB, or 50/50 mix KABF/generic AP +~4-5% rye in both cases and obtained identical results. So flour-wise it is pretty close to Vermont sourdough, which in cooler, drier season I'd be baking at 64-65%.
Yes, Hamelman uses the term "Bread Flour" in all of his formulas, but in the up front instructional text, he states that "the recommended white flour in the formulas . . . Is winter-wheat bread flour of medium strength -- 11.5 to 12 per cent protein, and with an ash content of about .5 percent. Stronger flours are not necessary and with few exceptions high-gluten flours should be avoided" (p. 146). King Arthur AP flour at 11.7% protein matches this recommendation and so I conclude that his hydrations assume that level of protein not stronger bread flour.
It is true that the overall formula calls 10% whole wheat, but the part of the formala where she was having trouble incorporating all of her flour was the first build, which is all white flour with 63% hydration.
Truth be told I typically use weaker flours for his sourdough recipes - AP, or at times BFB - depending on what works best at that particular period. I never use KAAP. For his yeasted breads I often like to go stronger, sometimes all the way to 100% KABF for breads like Pain Rustique.
And when you go stronger, do you keep the hydration below 60%?
I certainly defer to your experience and will be less trusting of Hamelman's text.
Oh, no with Hamelman's recipes the hydration is usually spot on with stronger flours and I 1-2% lower with AP's. But, I rarely bake breads like pain au levain at the time like this, at the height of the summer, when my kitchen hovers in mid-80's. The bread in the photo was actually born out of failed attempt to bake an olive sd (from a different source) which flowed at its original 67%. It's actually an interesting question - how would one of his recipes work out for me right now.
Adding yeast or sourdough might make good bread, but it wouldn't be Hamelman's Swiss Farmhouse Bread. Here's his method description:
"I learned this unusual bread-making technique from [Chef Albert Kumin] . . . Growing up in the mountains of Switzerland, commercial yeast was either unavailable or too expensive, so inhabitants of the mountain villages used what they had on hand to leaven their bread. In Chef Kumin's case, raisins were used. The raisins soaked in water for several days, releasing their latent yeasts, and the water in which they soaked was then used to prepare one or two builds prior to making the final dough. All the leavening in the bread comes from the raisin water."
Why didn't you say so:-) Yeast water is the perfect replacement for commercial yeast! I love yeast water and use it all the time to make breads that don't require a sour tang. Here is my YW primer on how to make it. it still needs more liquid in the mix with so much bread flour and whole wheat. Your yeast water just wasn't mature and strong enough to raise a loaf of bread.no worries that can be easily fixed
YW PrimerHappy baking with yeast water.