The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Ankarsrum hook

hlsabine's picture
hlsabine

Ankarsrum hook

I recently purchased an Ankarasrum, and I'm still still learning! I've read the entire manual (not much there), watched the dvd (laughable), and watched several YouTube videos (helpful). 

I'd like to use the full capacity of the bowl and make a 6 loaf batch, but the roller/scraper seems to max out at 4 loaves with the dough climbing up. 

It doesn't seem to mix well with the dough hook, though. I'm not sure where to position the hook. In the middle? Near one side? I know to not let it touch the bowl! I'm making a standard mostly whole wheat bread, not a high hydration recipe. I'd really appreciate your advice! 

Thanks, 

Melissa 

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

Melissa,  how many grams of flour are you using?  I assume you know that with the roller, you adjust the knob to keep the roller from hitting the side of the bowl when you have larger amounts of dough.  I only used the dough hook once, so can't give any help with that.  This is the breadbeckers video page, I don't use their method of adding flour, but I think she shows the adjustment of the roller http://www.breadbeckers.com/store/pc/Product-Demos-c215.htm#DLX

SandSquid's picture
SandSquid

Batch size alone does not determine the roller vice the hook, but the type of dough you are working with.

I only use the dough hook for larger batches of fairly wet ( >75% hydration ) dough, where the roller is ineffective.  :  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvfp_6TSVSk#t=26


4 Kilo is _my_ maximum batch size regardless of whether I'm using the roller or hook, or my dough climbs up the hook or roller and into the arm.  

hlsabine's picture
hlsabine

Thank you! That is quite helpful. I'm learning! 

hanseata's picture
hanseata

I bought an Ankarsrum after my Cuisinart gave up its ghost amid clouds of dark smoke.

Compared to the Ankarsrum manual, Ikea assembly instructions  are marvels of crystal carity. The Ankarsrum cd shows happy people around a machine that produces wonderful stuff - no need to show how! 

After viewing a YouTube video I at least understood how to use the kneader, I haven't used the dough hook much, either. The main difference to regular machines is not only that the bowl rotates, but, also, that you have to add the liquid ingredients first, then the flours in portions. 

With dryer doughs, or Peter Reinhart's whole grain pre-dough method (no water in the final dough) the Ankarsrum didn't work at all, it struggled a long time, without being able to blend the ingredients, whereas the 7-qt Cuisinart made short work of it.

On the other hand, with the Ankarsrum I am able to incorporate even more water into my highly hydrated rustic baguettes, this has been quite a pleasant surprise.

With cake batters the Ankarsrum works flawlessly. But working with bread doughs needs quite an adjustment.

Karin

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

Karin, surprised you had problems with the Reinhart epoxy method with whole grains.  I make a variation of that method nearly every week with 100% whole wheat with no problems, though I use a higher hydration.  Are you using the roller, and do you cut up both the soaker and the biga into pieces before you throw them into the Ankarsrum? 

hlsabine's picture
hlsabine

I agree, this mixer truly needs a better manual and dvd. It would sell so much better! I was tempted to return it after realizing how much learning and research I would need to do in order to use it. This is an $800 machine! Surely a better manual could be included. 

Kitchen Barbarian's picture
Kitchen Barbarian

Can be found here.  I found this on a S. African website after an exhaustive search recently.  Why do they get a real manual in S. Africa, but we don't get it here?  I bet they sell a lot more Ankarsrum mixers in the USA than S. Africa - S. Africa just isn't that big, LOL!

shastaflour's picture
shastaflour

About 3 years ago I wrote the company producing the mixer and begged them for an opportunity to rewrite their manual. I made the case that they could embrace English speaking consumers more effectively, and as a home baker and former English literature/ journalism major, suggested I could assist with this. They probably thought I was some sort of kook -- and never replied. LOL.

Kitchen Barbarian's picture
Kitchen Barbarian

You might be interested in this version of the manual, which I found on a South African website.

I am baffled as to why they insist on sending out what amounts to a sales brochure instead of an actual manual.  The thing is 34 pages long - and most of that is pictograms which are far too small for me, at least, to see what they are doing.  There is ONE PAGE in English for "safety instructions" - similarly one page for each of a couple dozen different European languages.  Seriously a waste of trees, IMO.

Maybe we should all bombard them with e-mails asking for a real manual.  I'm almost afraid that if they find out there is one available for download, they'll insist the company take it down!  I actually tried to upload it into the files area here, but apparently you can only upload pictures.  *sigh*

I've downloaded a copy to my PC, just in case, LOL!

Kitchen Barbarian's picture
Kitchen Barbarian

Melissa, here is a link to a REAL Ankarsrum manual.

That will have a lot of information that will be useful, including some recipes and (really useful) a chart telling how to adjust the roller and speed of the mixer for various types and amounts of dough.

I have NO IDEA why we don't get that manual with our machines.  What they DO send out amounts to a sales brochure and little more.

I believe the dough hook should be mounted to center over the bowl.  But you should only use it for very stiff doughs, such as for bagels.  You should use the roller for nearly everything else.

Here are some Youtube videos that might help:

Bread Becker's Ankarsrum Bread Dough Tutorial

Lynn Junk's Ankarsrum Complete Tutorial

At about 10 mins into Lynn's video, she shows hot to attach the dough hook - which she only uses to "punch down" the dough. 

She also demonstrates how to use the cookie beaters, which the lady at Bread Becker's told me NOT to use for cookie dough but only cake batter or "soft" cookie dough.  I actually don't know of a "soft" cookie dough, everything I make is pretty stiff.  For stiff cookie dough you are still supposed to use the roller and the steel bowl. 

I really like her video, there are lots of tips and tricks, including a demo of making oatmeal raisin cookies at about 15 mins in.

One of the videos on the DVDs that come with the machine shows you how to install and position the dough hook, but in case you didn't get those or lost them, here is a link to that video on Youtube

nikkiblum's picture
nikkiblum

I often (usually) find that my doughs, mostly high hydration and sourdough, are not quite as smooth as I would like using the Ankarsrum. As recommended, I begin with the liquid and add the flour. Perhaps I'm adding too much flour too quickly. With sourdough, my favorite recipe calls for incorporating flour (to water) and after autolyse, adding the stater. It almost never results in a perfectly smooth dough.  Are there any suggestions?  I've had the mixer for over a year and have made loads of bread. I like using it, but would not call it an unqualified success. 

Telnix's picture
Telnix

I am from the UK. This is my first contribution.

I find the mixer excellent with sourdough recipes and the dough turns out really well. I can only suggest that your recipe may be to blame if you are having difficulties OR you may not be kneading the dough long enough. I begin with the starter and water added together and "blend" them for a few minutes in the machine. I then add the flour fairly gradually until the famous "doughnut" shape is achieved. With a little jiggery pokery of the speed control you should be able to maintain this. I let it run on about half-speed or so for about twice the timer's maximum.

Incidentally, I was reading that someone had had difficulties cleaning the roller and maybe other utensils when they become unbearably sticky. I have a great tip. You can buy rubber-bristled brushes designed for household cleaning - dustpan and brush type. The one I have seems to have been made for the Ankarsrum. It is sold by Lakeland in this country and is about $5. It even has rubber bristles in the end of the brush that fit exactly into the grooves on the roller. The brush is exceptionally easy to clean - just a rinse. Brilliant!!

nikkiblum's picture
nikkiblum

Telnix, Thanks for the suggestions. I presume you are using the roller. Is that correct? I have almost never gotten the famous doughnut. Twice the mixers maximum would be about 24 minutes? Is that right? I do most of my doughs about 6 minutes, of which 4 are at a med. slow speed and the final 2 are medium fast. That seems quite different from your technique. Is that why I'm not as pleased with the appliance as you seem to be?

Telnix's picture
Telnix

Hi Nikki

Just thought you might like to take a look at this that I found on the "Gear" forum on this site. From "The Swede". Sweden is where they make them!

"I have used an Assistent Original (www.assistent.nu) for a few years and I am really satisfied. The machine is strong, silent and gives a feeling of very good quality. In Sweden, where I live, this is a very well known product and it usually gets best in test.

Mainly I make bread that needs a long time of kneeding, so I let the machine kneed the dough for up to 20 minutes. To kneed a 3 kg (6 lb) dough for that long you need a strong machine with a good capacity and the Assistent does it with pleasure. The machine has a capacity of up to 5 kg (10 lb) and the bowl is 7 litres (8 qt)."

 

I was relieved to find that someone - in Sweden was -  "kneeding" for as about long as I do!!

Thanks to The Swede!

I hope you get sorted!

Karen's picture
Karen

This is a rather late response but I took your advice and ordered those brushes for myself and family members and friends who have Ankarsrums. They're available on eBay and Lakeland doesn't ship internationally (I'm in the U.S.), so I had them shipped to a friend in London who was nice enough to shlep them along on a visit. You're right--the brushes are great and we all love them. Thanks for the tip!

Karen's picture
Karen

The brushes are available here in the U.S. from this vendor: http://shop.flylady.net/p/(RUB) .

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

Nikki,  with very high hydration,  I don't see a doughnut.  If you want to post the recipe, I can try it in my DLX and post a photo of what it looks like.  24 minutes sounds awfully long to me,  though I use the roller and scraper, not the dough hook.  

Telnix's picture
Telnix

Hi Nikki and Barry

What I'm suggesting is that you try a longer time of kneading - with the roller! We all know that bread making is an art and not a science. There are so many variables that you cannot be precise. I don't even know what recipe you're using, but it seems that your kneading time is very short. Mine might seen long, but there may be somewhere in-between that would suit your recipe and conditions and that's where I would start. I think it's more of a sense to know when the dough is ready rather than having strict timings - when the dough releases easily for instance. I would try a longer time and keep an eye on it. Yes, you can over-knead but  you would need to go for quite a time to do this. Yes a higher hydration gives a more difficult consistency. Improving your results doesn't seem that involved and complicated to me. But results can vary greatly. Humidity of the air, flour brand and absorbency etc. Have you considered the liquidity of the starter?

I too am happy to try your recipe, but you go for it Barry!

nikkiblum's picture
nikkiblum

WIth your recommendation in mind, I made my usual recipe of Della Fattoria's Pain de Campagne and mixed longer than usual, probably about 11 minutes or so. And indeed the dough was smoother. I like to do the final rise in the fridge overnight, so I won't know until tomorrow morning, how it turned out. But I will take some photos and let you know.  The dough was not overly hot. It came out of the mixer at about 78 degrees F.

 

The formula is as follows:

102 gr. firm starter, 410 gr. water,  570 gr AP flour. A 20 minute auotlyse before adding about 15 gr. sea salt and mixing (the recipe calls for about 6 minutes.) Three sets of folds at 30-minute intervals. Let rise for 2.5 to 3 hours. Then pre-shape and rest for 10 minutes. Then final rise and bake. 

This is a great flexible dough, I usually add a slurry of fresh rosemary, olive oil and grated lemon peel during the final shaping that ends up just under the top crust . Because of the scoring, the oven spring bursts through and gives the crust a glorious golden "crown." It's become a favorite around here. 

But these are not enormous quantities. Maybe that explains the lack of the donut. 

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

Nikki,  let us know how it turns out.  If there are any issues, I can try it this weekend.  Usually, stretch and folds are done to further strengthen the gluten, and the goal is not to knead to full strength, so it may be that the dough is not supposed to look done when you take it out of the machine.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnxiawZoL4A&index=2&list=PL02A67F155E9A6668

nikkiblum's picture
nikkiblum

My first time for uploading a pix. So excuse me if this is not quite right.  I was pleased With the results. Nice oven spring, good crumb and crust and fine taste.  Couldn't ask for more, except of certainty!

Bread obsessed's picture
Bread obsessed

Hi!

I'm getting my Ankarsrum in a few weeks (birthday gift... it's somewhere in the house but I have to wait for it!).

I've read about how the manual is awful and video useless, any tips after using it for a few years?

Chantal

Karen's picture
Karen

Scroll up for the links to Ashley's and Lynn Junk's videos. Also, check out Ashley's newer videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpiJ0OkURk4tD7cPgLVh3Ng/videos?disable_polymer=1. She and her parents have been using the Ankarsrum for 25+ years, are the U.S. distributors, and know the machine inside out.

Don't be afraid to use the roller for EVERYTHING (okay, maybe not meringue or whipped cream), not just bread. Watch the videos, apply a little common sense, and you'll be fine.

dbazuin's picture
dbazuin

The video’s are not that bad.

https://www.ankarsrum.com/what-you-can-make/

I prefer the roller over the hook but that is my personal preferences.