Low FODMAP breadmaking
Just when you thought dietary preferences couldn't get any more high-maintenance . . . My husband started a low-FODMAP diet a few months ago. It is sort of the latest dietary crazy BUT he has suffered from IBS all his life and had terrible cramps and he feels 100 percent better following this. FODMAPS are a group of carbohydrates some people have difficulty digesting . . . they are not proteins or oils . . . so gluten is NOT a FODMAP but wheat, spelt, barley, rye, kamut are. Oats and amaranth have moderate amounts. There are a whole bunch of other foods that are high in FODMAPS that need to be avoided--many of them find their way into GF FOODS (bean flours, dry milk, agave, chicory, garlic, etc).
So this is my question: I want to add gluten to a GF flour but I am not entirely sure how to substitute or what to expect. I was watching the Breadtopia sourdough starter video earlier and he mentioned rice flour not being as absorbent. Any idea what would be the best flour to do this with? Also, I found David's reply on a different thread and that is exactly what I was thinking but I am still unsure and wondering if anyone has tried this or what other modifications I should probably make.
Well, you could use some wheat free/ gluten free flour, and add the gluten back in with Vital Wheat Gluten. Technically, you'd be getting a tiny amount of wheat. But you'd be getting a large amount of gluten highly concentrated, so it wouldn't take much added to the recipe to do the trick. The VWG I have is 8g protein in every 12g of the powder. If you mixed 25g of that VWG for every 100g GF flour, you'd have about as much gluten as a decent white bread flour. A good loaf could possibly be made of maybe 400g GF flour, 300g water, 100g VWG, and half a packet of yeast. You could do the same with any flour you want to try to use, I guess. It stands to reason you may have to knead a little more to make sure all the gluten is well distributed and well developed throughout the loaf, since it isn't an integral part of the flour. Bake at maybe 350F to 375F for about 35 to 40 minutes for a soft pan loaf. Higher temp and steam for a crusty boule. If you really want a crusty boule, batard, or baguette, you should also use more water to make up for the higher heat.
Any help or suggestions would be very helpful .
BTW, the low FODMAP diet sounds weird and very draconian but after a while you are supposed to start to try out different foods to see which ones are tolerable and which ones really cause problems. Spelt sourdough is supposedly low FODMAP and tolderable (because of the fermentation) but that is a couple of weeks away.
Sorry that was a very long and open ended question. Specifically, in addition to whether you think it will work at all, I am wondering if I should follow a regular wheat recipe or a wetter GF recipe? Is there any chance a GF/VWG combo would behave like wheat?
I was thinking of trying it out on something forgiving--maybe foccaccia.
First of all,I am no expert in GF but have dabbled enough to say you can make delicious bread with no wheat, if you want that. I see millet,sorghum,rice,buckwheat and other gf grains are on one of the FODMAP acceptable lists. If he can tolerate some wheat gluten, my advice for breadmaking using any medium is to develop the starcy release (easily done with gf flour) and watch the proofing closely. Since there is not much of a matrix (such as the gluten netting)the gases escape and the resulting loaf is dense. If you usevwg, you may need to develop/mix/knead to windowpain to develop a fluffy loaf.
It will be interesting to hear how this goes. The GF sites may be helpful with a portion6 of this dietary adjustment. It does look unique and even yif it helps deal with a portion, that may get him some relief and a good start. Can't know everything all at once. It's a process.
thanks for your reply The only GF blend I had in the house had xanthum gum, so I am going to find one without and give it a whirl using a regular flour recipe. Something easy, so I don't feel bad if it is inedible an I have to pitch it.
Or Rye - the key might be a longer/slower ferment rather than the quick factory stuff - so unless you have a good craft baker nearby, then get your starters going!
I make spelt sourdoughs regularly too. No real difference from wheat based ones although spelt tends to flow, so I use a banneton to do the final proof in.
My MiL has all sorts of intolerances and probably IBS too - she has tried commercial spelt loaves but doesn't get on with it, I'm trying to get her to sample some of my sourdough spelt though, however my Rye sourdoughs are great for her. Like your other half she's fine with gluten, but often just picks gluten free stuff as its convenient for her issues.
Your GF flour sounds like Doves which I know has xanthan gum in it - you might want to see if you can get hold of Phil Vickerys cook books - he's more cakes and biscuits though, but does have his own GF flours which you can make up yourself, and there's also a section in Andrew Whitleys book "Bread Matters" on GF sourdoughs too - his GF starter is rice based. He also mentions FODMAPs at the start of the book too and how slower fermentation may help. (or more how the current bread additives/improvers/processing aids are not helping)
-Gordon
Thanks Dragon--question about the sourdough---spelt sourdough made the traditional way was tested and found to have lower FODMAPS so last night I ordered the KAF starter. I have zero sourdough experience but my plan is to convert the KAF starter into a spelt starter to make spelt sourdough and use some of the discarded stuff to start a GF starter as well to use in GF sourdough recipes. I am assuming the little yeasties won't mind suddenly switching to a GF blend. Does this sound right to you?
I am going to check out that Bread Matters book, thank you.
I'm guessing KAF is King Arthur Flour - which oddly enough in King Arthur land (aka England) we don't get :-)
However, I kick-started my current Spelt starter from my wheat one - took a big dolop (highly technical term - about a tablespoon in this instance!) of the wheat starter, put it in a jar, added 100g of spelt and 100g of water, stirred it up - added another 100g spelt + water the next day - the same the day after then baked with it - just a couple of test loaves, but essentially by then the wheat that was left was minimal, so another test bake and refresh and I was happy that the remaining wheat content was as close to nothing as made no difference. That was about 2 years ago. I changed it from wholegrain spelt to white spelt as I was using more while spelt flour about a year ago and its still fine. I normally bake 3 days a week with mine unless I get a special order for more.
I keep about 500g of starter in a jar in the fridge and often use the starter directly from the jar or sometimes bulk it up when I need a bit more. My standard recipe use 40% starter, so typically 800g of flour (500g white, 300g wholegrain), 320g starter @ 100% hydration, up to 60g honey, 410g water, (use more water if less honey) 12g salt. Mix, knead, leave covered overnight, (9-10 hours), divide into 2 or 3, shape, prove in bannetons or tins (you'll get pancakes otherwise) then into a hot oven (250C) for 11 minutes with steam, then down to about 210 for the rest of the time - about 22 minutes.
And you get this:
That looks overly dark, but it's mostly the honey caramelising.
Hope your other half can enjoy spelt bread!
I've just googled & found the KAF starter page - looks ok and I'd feed it from day 1 with spelt flour (can you get organic?) and off you go.
-Gordon
If that were mine, I would turn that picture into a button and wear it on my coat.
Your recipe sounds similar to the one I saw on the Breadtopia video someone posted in the sourdough forum.
I am so sorry that each answer provokes further questions, but I have to ask:
What did you bake your loaf in?
Also, you mention you make 2 or 3 loaves. Do you bake them all at the same time?
Is there any point in the process when you can freeze the unbaked dough?
Thanks very much!
er.. I bake in an oven... er... expand on that... it's an electric fan oven which I think might be a little different to the ones in the US which we might call fan-assist here. Here we have a fan at the rear of the oven and a big circular heating element round it - the fan sucks air in from the oven cavity over the heater and out via vents in the plate between the fan/heater and the main cavity. This is a very common type of oven here - the differences are in the poshness of the oven, type of element, fan(s) and so on. That oven is "Captain Beaky" - a very cheap domestic oven designed to be built into a standard kitchen unit (it cost me £195)
This video shows it in action, baking spelt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v_v9fahGlk
Those are 2 large loaves - I can get 2 more of them in on the shelf above, or 3 smaller ones on a wide tray, side by side (so 6 in total). There is a tray the full size of the bottom in the oven and I splash a dolop of water into it before I close the door to create steam. (I have another oven, bigger which has a steam injector) You can just about make-out a up/down oval shaped grid of holes at the back of the oven - that's where the fan sucks the air in from the main cavity - there are 4 slots over that backplate which it blows the hot air out of. You can see how the dough has spread out when turned out of the bannetons into the trays but it springs back nicely.
I've not tried freezing unbaked sourdough. Baked loaves do freeze well - let them cool down completely first. I'm not sure sourdough would be robust enough to freeze and recover, but who knows.
-Gordon
I meant do you bake them in a cloche or some other kind of earthenware container?
But very interesting to know about the oven--it sounds like a convection oven here. I will check out the youtube video.
I just watched your video--you got that loaf baking it on a baking sheet? I thought it had to go into a container. This has proved very beneficial to me because I don't want to buy a lot of extra stuff before I start.
I've never used a dome/cloche/dutch oven type of thing for bread. The oven is fairly well sealed - steam stays in until I open the door. That oven will bake 4 large or 6 small loaves - my other oven will bake 9 large or 12 small loaves.
There are 100s of different ways to make breads, and 100s more ways to manage sourdough cultures. I'm making 6-10 loaves a day so I need a way that works efficiently for me - and this is part of that way. I don't personally know anyone over here that uses a cloche type baking arrangement, although I see them on-sale, so I guess some are using them. I suspect that if I couldn't keep steam in the oven I might look at something - but then again, I'd probably just block the oven vent.
That's one of the great things about bread for me - there are very few things that you actually have to do - other than mix up a bit of flour and water :-) the rest is just prettiness and personal preference.
-Gordon
Since posting this, I have made 100 percent sourdough spelt loaves and it turns out (unfortunately) that my husband can't tolerate them well. I have also tried making GF sourdough boules with a recipe I found online (using 4 cups or 200 percent starter, and making a very wet sourdough) and also tried adding a little bit of gluten into the GF recipe. I didn't really love either result. Part of the problem might have been they were proofing too long since they had a very malty and yeasty aftertaste.
Tonight I am going to use a regular white flour sourdough recipe but subsitute millet, sorghum, amaranth and regular GF baking mix and adding in 12 percent gluten by weight. I just fed my starter some sorghum to bulk it up.
If this doesn't work, I am going to ditch the sourdough route and try using just yeast. But now that I have the starter, I want to use it . . . .
I am so glad to finally find something about baking with nonwheat flours while adding the gluten back in. I am on a low FODMAP diet, but don’t like the texture of GF breads and quick breads.
Since your last post, have you had success with adding gluten into non wheat flours?
Thanks, Lauri
Hi Lauri, I am sorry to report that I just gave up. We had a lot going on and each attempt was worse than the next. Also, I discovered that King Arthur has a boxed mix for a yeasted gluten free bread which, if I make it with lactose free milk, is low fodmap. Like many GF products, it uses a lot of eggs and so has that spongy texture, but it's not bad at all and when I make it I have to shoo my kids away since they like it too. Also, on the low fodmap diet, I think you can actually have a slice of regular bread but since he usually wants to eat two sandwiches at a time that doesn't really work. Good luck and please post your experiences!
thanks for your quick reply! I purchased a spelt sourdough bread and it’s ok, but I am going to try making a loaf soon. Yesterday, I made a lemon blueberry bread (a quick bread) using A Virtual Vegan recipe. I used LF milk instead of DF milk and I used the flour mixture from Monash University. Since the 2 cups flour mixture was wheat free, I added 2 tsp of gluten to it. It turned out great! I will post when I actually try some yeast bread. I have a bread machine. When making GF bread you don’t let the dough rise a second time. I’m assuming if I add gluten to my wheat free recipe, then I will let it rise a second time. We will see.
Also, your husband was on this diet 4 years ago, was he eventually able to add back some of the restricted foods?
Laurie, I am definitely going to try to add in a tablespoon of gluten next time I make the GF bread. If you haven't tried the King Arthur boxed mix, I recommend it even though it is a little pricey. It has a 30 minute rest followed by another rise in the pan. I am not sure how the gluten will impact everything else going on the loaf--my other experiments were with other mixtures like sorghum, millet, quinoa, etc. I am certain it is possible to construct a somewhat conventional low-fodmap, gluten containing loaf, but it requires a knowledge of food science that I just don't have.
On the low fodmap diet, you can have a slice of regular bread--after a while even a sandwich or a roll is fine as long as the meal is otherwise okay. The plan has been really wonderful for alleviating his distressing symptoms, and most of the time now when there is a problem it is because of too much fat or just eating too much at one time. And yes, you can add back restricted foods in small quantities but, unfortunately, onions and garlic are gone for good. We seek out the Raos sensitive stomach marinara sauce made without onions or garlic. Also, he really objected to the GF bread at the beginning but over time he's gotten used to it and I usually buy the Canyon Ranch mountain white and only occasionally make it myself now. Mohash also has a fodmap app and it is helpful to have since it seems they are always doing new tests and adding to it. There is a brand called FODY which I haven't seen here yet but might catch on.
My biggest regret is that I enjoy baking and I was really making the sourdough breads, but I don't want to put a lot of time and energy into making things he can't fully participate in. So I do it only sporadically, which is why I don't visit this site much. But there is a chocolate babka on here that is definitely on my list.
Good luck with the plan. I hope you find it works for you!
thank you so much for replying to my questions! You have been very helpful.
Lauri
I also have IBS and was going to try this out myself, but curious if it worked? I imagine you wouldn't need the xanthan gum with the gluten added in? (I'm also assuming you're referring to the flour mix recipe on their app?)
Thanks!
Susie
I stopped doing Low FODMAP shortly after the post. It was not helping my IBS symptoms. I don’t remember if I actually tried making the bread or not. Sorry that I’m no help. I will say that for6 weeks in August and September, I did the keto diet and that did reduce my symptoms - probably because I wasn’t eating much fiber. I’m not still doing keto, even though I’m trying to watch my sugar intake, but my IBS symptoms are still 75% better. I’ve had IBS symptoms since 2013 and the last 2.5 months have been the most normal for me since then.
Sorry the low fodmap didn't work out for you. It continues to help my husband, though. Glad you found something that sort of worked for you. IBS can be so terrible and really impact quality of life.
I'll give it a go myself then, and let everyone know what I think!
If it works, maybe I'll start a blog or something and put it out there to find with a Google search!
Susie
I'll give it a go myself then, and let everyone know what I think!
If it works, maybe I'll start a blog or something and put it out there to find with a Google search!
Susie
I was wrong - skip this post. ?
That’s ok. I knew I was taking a chance of not getting a reply. I was so excited to see it this morning!
I used a generic gluten-free bread recipe and then added 1/2 cup vital wheat gluten. I baked it in a bread machine. I used a gluten-free mix I got a Trader Joe (mostly brown rice flour), added some oatmeal I had blended into powder as well as a little fine ground polenta. The bread rose better than a similar recipe without the gluten. The texture was different than wheat bread, a lot more crumbly. But it was still good and would make a decent sandwich. The best part is that I did not get the symptoms I get from eating wheat.
Note: I am sensitive only to fructans and possibly galactans, not to lactose, fructose or any other fodmaps.
THIS is a GF site that has GF sourdough how-to. I hope it is helpful.
I also just found THIS fabulous site!
I hope people try some of these techniques out and post back. I have not been baking much of anything lately but , if I do, I will post back. Very interesting and I always believe there can be a LOT of deliciousness made using non-wheat grains.
I just saw your post. Those sites looks great. Thanks for sharing.