The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Multigrain not-so-extraordinaire

wheatstreet's picture
wheatstreet

Multigrain not-so-extraordinaire

I'm a newby with about two months practice.  I'm quite obsessed but my desire to bake has been curbed a bit by the summer heat here in Sydney, Australia.   I'm not so keen to have the oven on when it's already 30C/87F in the kitchen!  I'm dreaming of an outside oven!

I asked for BBA for Christmas and have since been mostly focussing on pain a L'ancienne with reasonable results and multigrain extraordinaire with mixed results.  I've baked the latter three times now with the first attempt being the best.  This last time I stuck rigorouosly to the recipe (not so much the first 2 times) but the result was even more disappointing.  Hopefully you can see from the photo that the bottom 2cm/inch or so is extra dense while the top is quite cakey and the top of the loaf sunk a bit. It's as though all the water has sunk to the bottom.  The flavour is good but way too sweet for my taste.  I would be grateful for advice on where I am going wrong and how I can tweak the recipe.

1. Could this be an error of prooffing time? In my hot kitchen it seemed to proof much faster than in BBA - about 50 mins versus 90.  Maybe I was mistaken that it was ready and should have given more time? It never got over the top of the pan which was 9x6x3.5"

2. could it be something to do with the pan I baked it in? I baked it for about an hour at 180C (350F).  Is there something different about using a loaf pan rather than a free form?  The first time I baked it I made a boule which was better but still heavier on the bottom. 

3. Is the sugar and honey important other than for toastability or can I leave them both out?  I have noticed other posts say that they have cut out the sugar but not the honey.  If I leave them both out do I need to make any compensating adjustments to the formula such as yeast reduction? 

Many thanks

Megan

 

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

I agree and have noticed quite a few recipes with sugar and like you I would prefer to leave it out.  Often honey is good with grain and wholewheat breads and I reduce it markedly but would love to know what the experienced bakers say too.  

Do you use a pizza stone in your oven? 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

You can tweak in a lot in a recipe.  You are right in noticing that warmer weather will ferment the dough faster, follow the dough not the given times when you see this happening.  The denser crumb near the bottom is a sign of over proofing and so is the slightly sunken top.  Although not too badly over proofed.  

Don't know if it applies but shaping the loaf should always be rounded and not flat in the pan unless it's a cake.  Run a wet spatula down the sides and push or pull the dough into the middle.

I have a small mini oven :)  for outside when the temperatures are hot.  Bake other things as well out there.  We have snow falling down so it is boxed up in my office right now.

I don't use sugar in my recipes anymore, soaking the whole grain sweetens it enough.  I leave it out, it might also help slow down the fermentation.  If you find the crusts too pale put a teaspoon or two of either back into the recipe.

Pan size.  A 9 x 6 is a good sized pan!   Might want to add a half recipe to the one used or try a smaller pan.  how much did the dough weigh after mixing it up?

Mini 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I have all sizes of pans in all kinds of shapes.  If I want to know if the dough fits the pan, I put it on my scales empty, set the weight to 0 and fill with water.  I divide that weight in half if my finished loaf is twice the size of the dough.  I divide it into 3 if the volume is 3 x higher than the dough.  If it is a heavy rye, I fill the pan 2/3, and see how that compares with 2/3 of the water weight of the pan.  That gives me a rough idea of what to expect.  

Fill the 9x6x3.5 pan with water and divide in half.  How does that compare to the weight of the dough?  

cerevisiae's picture
cerevisiae

Just a quick note about taking out the honey - it does contribute slightly to the hydration, so you may want to throw a small amount of extra water into the dough to compensate.

Since you are baking in the heat, you could consider doing a cold final proof in your fridge. Maybe give the dough 20 minutes or so on the counter after shaping and then  move it into the cold to finish proofing. 

I'm not sure how much that will slow it down, but it might help you to avoid the overproofing.

pmccool's picture
pmccool

The loaf does appear to be over-proofed.  Your instincts about time, temperature, and pan size are all valid.  Warmer temperatures mean the dough will ferment faster and cooler temperatures will cause slower ferments.  That's the basis for the admonition to watch the sough, not the clock.  Times in recipes are guidelines and they are based on an assumed room temperature.

Even though your pan is only one inch longer and one inch taller than the one called for in BBA, it means that the quantity of the dough in the formula will not adequately fill the larger pan.  Consequently, if you were hoping for a nicely domed top above the pan rim, the dough will probably collapse before it is able to inflate that much.

This bread is far too sweet for my taste.  Chef Reinhart has an admitted sweet tooth and that seems to show up in this particular formula.  You can certainly cut down on the amount of sugar or honey and still have a delicious bread.

Paul

wheatstreet's picture
wheatstreet

Thanks so much all for your excellent advice.  I've just set off my soaker and will bake tonight.  It's a lovely cool day here today (24C/75F in my kitchen) and it's a public holiday so I'm not at work and can cook!

Mini - thanks for your tips on judging pan size.  It turns out that the dough is about a third of the pan volume so this time I will ditch the pan and make a batard.

I intend to leave out all the sweeteners this time.  I don't mind if it's pale.  I don't think I'll add back water in lieu of honey as the dough is very wet, as many others have noted on TFL.   I'll ferment and proof on the bench as its cool enough but I'll watch even closer to avoid over-proofing. I will report back tomorrow after I've had it for breakfast!  

Thanks again!