Cheap Convection Oven & Baking Stone
I'm currently living in China where having a real oven is difficult to find unless you live in a high end compound. The only option I have at the moment is to use a small convection oven. I don't always have the following problem but thought I can get some ideas on how to remedy the situation.
Often when I bake the bottom of the bread gets burnt (I think it is the flour burning off rather than the bread burning). I guess I'm not sure if it is the amount of flour or the oven. If it is the flour, how do I know when I have enough flour on the bottom surface? I have in the past had the bottom stick to my stone and this may be why I might go a bit heavy on flour.
If it is the oven (the bottom getting too hot) what else can I do to remedy the situation? Should I try cooking at a lower temp but for longer?
If you are only baking one loaf at a time, there is an easy fix, though it may take a few tries. Just preheat the stone less - that way, the stone, which takes longer to absorb the heat, will not just as hot as the interior of the oven. For ex, if you set the convection oven to 400F and preheat , the interior of the oven will probably be up to that temp within 20 minutes. If you then put the stone in, and came back and checked in 10 minutes, the stone would probably be in the range of 200 to 300 F, but the interior temp of the oven would probably be back at 400. So you can just change the amount of time of preheating the oven and the stone until you get the result you like. Another option is rigging something like the superpeel http://www.superpeel.com/ I use a home made version and don't use any flour and get no sticking. Others have wrapped a baking linen around a thick piece of cardboard and gotten similar results.
I really like the idea of preheating the oven without the stone in it. I didn't think of this because I always was thinking the stone must take 40-50 minutes to preheat. However, if I don't want it to be too hot on the bottom then it shouldn't be allowed to heat up at much.
Do I have to be worried about the stone cracking when I put it into the hot oven?
I never heard of the superpeel, I'll take a look at it. I doubt I could buy one so I would need to see if I can find the baking linen. Do you have any pictures of this setup or know of any posts? I'll have a look in the search to see if I can find it.
I should also mention the sticking occurs to my actual stone during baking. This is the reason I place flour on the bottom of my bread and not because it is sticking to my transfer surface. I proof in a rattan and then immediately place the bread on the stone before cooking.
Zamm, a decent stone should not crack when put in a hot oven, it usually absorbs heat too slowly and evenly to crack. The very thin 1/8 or so cheap stones can crack, though they crack if you look at them wrong. Not sure why the bread would stick to the stone. I use very high hydration doughs ( in the 90's ) and don't have a problem with sticking. If you click on the link in the above post you will go to the superpeel site. It is a basic concept - a nonstick fabric is wrapped around a wooden peel, once it is on the peel, you push the fabric forward as you move the peel backwards, and the dough just drops onto the stone. Sounds harder than it is to do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Cepy0tSu88
Hi Barry,
The stone I use most likely isn't a very high quality stone. What is available for me to buy in China is quite limited. I've read that sometimes the stones need to be "broken in" for bread not to stick to them, but I guess mine hasn't had this yet. I'm also afraid now to not put flour on the bottom surface since I've lost many breads to the stickiness of the stone.
I don't use that high of hydration, but I typically use 70-80% hydration doughs. Of course this might change once it has been slathered on with flour. With the bake I did yesterday (Flax - Sunflower seed) I caked on the flour since it was my first time using my new banneton. I will hold back from using so much next time!
I've looked at the video and the website and I'm not sure if this is what my issue is. It isn't getting the bread on to the surface (though this looks helpful) it is more about trying to control the temperature in my small little oven (which I'm sure gets hotter than the set setting) and not allowing the flour to burn off. I'm going to try the recommended above to heat the oven, then put the stone in, then after a short time put the bread on.
The guy in the video seems a bit challenged with it, proving that you should only make YouTube videos while sober. I can see myself burning my fingers with that thing.
I've had good luck using corn starch, not corn meal, on baking stones to prevent sticking. It helps if the dough has good surface tension and is not highly hydrated.
I haven't tried using corn starch yet maybe I'll give it a shot. Thanks.
Your story sounds strange to me. I've been using cheap terracotta style pizza stones for years and never once has any bread of any type stuck to it. Not only that but I have never "seasoned" my stones either. I suspect therefore that your problem is more to so with your recipe than the stone. Personally I would always put the stone in the oven and let it warm up gradually so as to avoid any shock, and obviously it should be totally dry before going in.
The high hydration of your breads also should not be an issue that causes sticking imo. So I'm guessing it is some ingredient in your bread. Could you list a typical recipe you are using that suffers this sticking problem? I'm thinking you have fats and sugars in there perhaps.
I purchased mine online from a company called breadleaf but I think it is only a Chinese brand. Because some things have burnt on to it I can't scrap it completely clean, but the sticking happened form the start.
I'm using the Tartine classic recipes and technique. The only part I'm not following is his cooking vessel because I can't find a small enough to fit in my oven (it is that small!). I'm not putting any sugar in just Salt, flour, water levean (and I'll be adding wheat germ on my next bake).
I don't wash the stone, just scrap it clean after each use. I'll see if I can find a clay terracotta plate liek yours and have a go.
Does your oven have an open element?
Lower temperatures for longer seems to work. I get good results at 210 degrees Celsius, or even 200, I never go lower then that as bread should be atleast 200 degrees on the inside for it to be baked properly.
What oven do you have and what choices are the settings?
I've only just gotten used to mine and now I have no problems. When it comes to burning the bread that is.
I do have an open element oven and it is very small, so I think the heat is so close to the stone that it is causing the flour to burn. I typically put my oven at 190 degrees C because the oven is so small and the element is so close to the stone.
The other settings I have is to have the top element on, bottom element, or both. I typically will keep both on until the bread rises to much when I think the top element will burn the bread (maybe only 2 inches away, 5-6 cm).
I'm currently using white flour mixed with bread flour. I'm going to try and reduce the amount of flour I use and see if it makes a difference and not allow the stone to preheat too much. I'll report back after the weekend.
I use brown rice flour. Nothing sticks to that.
Just reporting back that I tried preheating the oven without the stone inside and then placed in after about 20 minutes. Happy to report that I had no burns on this previous cook! Thank you for the suggestion.
Zamm, thanks for the update, I was beginning to worry that I steered you in the wrong direction. I had some dough that was ready to go in the oven the other day, and realized I had forgotten to preheat it, so I turned it on, and put the dough in maybe 10 or 15 minutes later. The oven was pretty warm - say 350 to 450, but the stone was much cooler, and part of the dough stuck to the stone. I think if the stone is too cool, it will be more likely to stick, but you obviously have found the right preheat time for you. If you have an IR thermometer, you might want to measure the temp right before you load the loaf. You can then measure it again right after you take it off, and that will let you know whether you can bake one loaf right after another, if that is something you care to do.