October 4, 2014 - 4:03pm
Bread too fluffy
There are numerous posts here asking how to make fluffy bread.
I have the opposite problem - my bread is too fluffy.
Ingredients
500 g strong white flour
10 mg salt
7 mg fast action yeast
40 ml Olive oil
320 ml water
Tray of water in bottom of oven during baking
Oven Temperature: 210 centigrade
I don't slash my loaf prior to baking
This usually results in an excellent loaf with great crust that naturally cracks upon cooling
However, occasionally the loaf turns out rather soft and the crumb is extremely fluffy. It's not under-baked and tastes fine.
I'm just curious as too why this should be
Any ideas?
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Rupert, you didn't explain how you knead.
My guess is that the extra fluffiness has everything to do with that; that's been my experience. The more you knead your bread, the stronger the gluten development, the fluffier your bread will be.
I knead using a combination of slap & fold (known here as the 'French method') & the heel of the hand method. When the dough starts to combine I leave it for 4 or 5 minutes & then continue until it's nicely smooth - about 8 to 10 minutes in total. But I do the above every time. I enjoy kneading so maybe I get carried away sometimes.
You may want to try timing how long you knead. Of course the dough is the best indicator, but I think as a test, maybe try 'overkneading' by hand (try 15min) and see if you get the fluffy loaf you're talking about.
You describe the yeast as being "7mg", I am assuming that you mean 7 grams. Cut the yeast back to 4 or 5 grams and eliminate the oil. Make certain that you get a full bulk fermentation followed by a complete proof and this will take the fluff out of your bread.
Jeff
Ah yes: 7 grams of yeast.
Full bulk fermentation? that's first rise yes? I use a cylindrical see-through tub for 1st rise as I can't imagine how you can judge 'doubled in volume' using a bowl. Actually, I let it rise until it's almost tripled.
Complete proof is hard to judge. I usually allow it to rise to about the top of the tin which mostly works fine. I've tried the finger poke test but it means nothing to me. As a test I've poked it long before it's risen much and the dent stays there.
As I say, I get a great results most of the time - just occasionally it turns out over-fluffy. As for the window pane effect, I've tried that too without success: I just knead until the dough goes smooth & stretchy & that usually works.
I'll try your suggestions.
Yes that is the first rise. Despite all that has been said about dough doubling or tripling in volume, that is really a poor and sometimes misleading indicator. It is an indicator, just not a great one. Much has been written on this site about properly proofed dough and I suggest you search for that and learn what you can as it will be helpful. The rules for when the first rise is complete are essentially the same as those for testing for a fully proofed (2nd rise) loaf. Timing wise, the first rise is a bit less critical than the final proof but it is important to be very close in timing it correctly.
The finger poke test is a good one meant to be used when the dough is apparently near the end of the rise. Using this test early in the process will not yield reliable results. Try relying more on that test than the much less precise volume increase of the dough.
Jeff
All white flour breads will be fluffier.
As others here have said, hard to diagnose without more detail, but the thing that strikes me here is the apparent randomness of the problem. You say you "usually" get an excellent loaf but "occasionally" it comes out too fluffy - but you're doing it the same way every time. When something changes for no apparent reason... there is always a reason. Look for it. If you're using exactly the same ingredients and the same methods and the same timing, then something in your environment has changed. I woke up this morning and for the first time this season I was compelled to go around closing windows and to dig up a sweater to wear; temperature and humidity dropped dramatically overnight, and indeed they've been dropping more gradually for some weeks now. This affects my proofing time and temperature, and I've had to adjust accordingly. When I bite the bullet and start heating the house, that too will make a difference. I'm not saying this is exactly what's happening with your bread; it's only one obvious example of the kind of thing that can make a difference.
As I said, over-fluffiness only occurs occasionally - probably every one in ten bakes. It's logical to assume that something as changed but I don't know what.
I was telling an acquaintance (who ran a small village bakery for over 30 years, well before Chorleywood) how I,working in I.T. for many years, was used to following an exact procedure and having a guaranteed result at the end but that with bread this didn't seem to apply. She agreed & said that bread baking was not a science & that after a while I would develop a feel for it.
I guess there's too many variables: variations in flours, ambient temperature & humidity etc.
I try the finger poke test almost every time. Sometimes the indentation stays (over-proofed), sometimes it comes back quick (under-proofed) & sometimes it comes back slowly (proofed). However, if the indentation stays I just bake anyway & 9 times out of ten I get a good result.
The only difference I find with ambient temperature changes is that the dough takes longer or less time to rise.
I guess that the process is a little mysterious & I can accept that. After all, even though sometimes the bread is over-fluffy it's still perfectly fine to eat.
when I said I didn't actually think it was the temperature - I just brought that up as an example. It actually does sound as if there is something different in your dough composition or handling on those occasions. Used to be a programmer myself, so I totally hear you about expecting consistent results. The thing the two have in common is that if something changes you can be sure there is always a reason. Where they differ is in the detectability of that reason. You can't fully debug bread because you can't decompile it. ;-) The differences in execution from batch to batch (argh, pun only sort of intended) are irreversible, and may be so subtle that you can't actually detect them. But that doesn't mean they aren't there and can't be guessed at. If your crumb is a little less open than usual, then it's reasonable to guess that you slightly mis-measured either flour or water resulting in a slightly lower hydration... or that you kneaded/proofed a tiny bit less/more than usual, resulting in a more compact and delicate structure... or that maybe the temperature setting on your oven was a little off, or that you inadvertently steamed a little more or a little less.* You can't actually prove (heh) most of these things in hindsight, so you have to rely on probability and faith and experience. With so many variables and so many possible permutations, I suppose the really surprising thing is that we do get pretty consistent results from consistent practices more often than not!
* (I'm not even considering the effects of different types/brands of flour because I assume you've already ruled that out - and indeed the randomness of the occurrence tends to do that anyway.)
Thanks all. Tomorrow's loaf will be fine I'm sure (well, kind of).
Are you always using fast acting yeast? As compared to instant yeast?
Is the tap water always the same temperature? A few degrees warmer and the yeast will rise faster throwing the times off.
Yeast: Fast acting
Tap water temperature: Hard to say exactly - luke warm
I'll time my kneading next time.
There is your variable. Dough temperature!
Your hands could also be warming the dough if you're a hot handed baker! >squeal< :)
Using my normal methods, I baked a great loaf today.
I timed my knead: 6 minutes, left to rest for 4 minutes, 2 minutes last knead.
I'll continue doing this until I get a too fluffy crumb. If that happens then I'll investigate other possibilities.
Try doubling your kneading time and see if you get that "fluffy" crumb again. 16 minutes active, 8 minutes of rest. Set up the intervals however you want.
I always use rests 20 min or so in between kneading. It really works so well just sitting tightly on its own