Another take on Josh's Pan Maggiore
When Josh posted earlier this month on his bake of the Pan Maggiore I was instantly taken with it and decided right then and there to put it on my immediate short list of breads to try. Finally this week I was able to get a mix of it done and baked. If the loaf that came out my oven is like or close to Josh's version it's quite clear to me why he and his customers regard it so highly. I love these country style breads with combinations of rye and whole wheat but this is a standout in my book and has already been assigned a permanent spot in the old recipe folder. I copied the formula and procedure that Josh posted on his reply to dabrownman, taking the ingredient numbers given and plugging them into my formula scaler/spreadsheet to get a clear picture of the percentages.
Normally at this point I'm tempted to make changes to suit my own preferences but my intention from the outset was to try to make Josh's bread, or at least a close cousin, and not my own. There are some minor differences between the formula I used and the one given in that I only keep a 100%+ rye starter and some of the percentages have been rounded up or increased slightly but that's about it I think. As far as following the procedure I went right along with what had been posted regarding times and temperatures, doing a 1 hour autolyse, holding back 10% of water for bassinage, doing the stretch and folds every 40 minutes over 4 hours BF, shaping and finally retarding for just a little over 12 hours. Bake profile was identical to Josh's, same heat and time but I did leave the loaf on the stone with the oven off, door ajar, for 15 minutes. Unfortunately I didn't have the fresh ground flours that Josh uses, which I'm sure makes a noticeable difference in fermentation and flavour but I'm quite happy with the results I did manage to achieve on both those counts. The flavour of this bread is excellent, the rye and wheat components nicely balanced and the two leavens contributing what I'd call a mid to high tang to the overall. What I like most about this bread is how moist and supple the crumb is, carrying the flavour evenly throughout from first to last bite, and I expect the loaf will retain it's moisture over several days, assuming it lasts that long. In the meantime I'm looking forward to tomorrow's sandwiches featuring this lovely bread. Many thanks to Josh for sharing his formula and procedure for the Pan Maggiore, it's a keeper!
Cheers,
Franko
For anyone wanting to make a larger or smaller loaf than the one in the formula below click *here* for an editable version.
| Pane Maggiore | % | Kilos/Grams |
| Ingredients | ||
| Whole Wheat Leaven | ||
| Whole Wheat Flour | 100.00% | 21 |
| Mature Starter -rye 100% | 47.60% | 10 |
| Water | 100.00% | 21 |
| Total weight | 247.60% | 53 |
| ripen for 14-18 hours | ||
| White Leaven | ||
| AP Flour | 95.00% | 20 |
| Rye flour-dark | 5.00% | 1 |
| Mature Starter -rye 100% | 50.00% | 11 |
| Water | 100.00% | 21 |
| Total weight | 250.00% | 53 |
| ripen for 14-18 hours | ||
| Final Dough | 1000 | |
| AP Flour | 60.5% | 287 |
| Medium/Dark Rye Flour | 17.5% | 83 |
| Whole Wheat Flour | 22.0% | 104 |
| Whole Wheat Leaven | 11.2% | 53 |
| White Leaven | 11.2% | 53 |
| Sea Salt | 2.2% | 10 |
| Water | 86.0% | 408 |
| Total weight | 210.6% | 1000 |
| DDT-76-78F | ||
| Hold back 10% of water for bassinage. | ||
| Autolyse the flours and water for 1 hour. DDT-76F. | ||
| Add salt and mix for 2 minutes on 1st. Add the levain in | ||
| chunks while in 1st, then continue mixing on 2nd for 6-8 minutes | ||
| or until dough is moderately developed and cohesive. | ||
| BF for 4 hours, s&f every 40 min, shape then bulk retard overnight. | ||
| Overall Formula | Kilos/Grams | |
| Total Flour | 100.00% | 528 |
| AP Flour | 58.23% | 307 |
| Dark Rye Flour | 17.91% | 95 |
| Whole Wheat Flour | 23.85% | 126 |
| Sea Salt | 1.98% | 10 |
| Water | 87.41% | 462 |
| Total weight/yield | 189.39% | 1000 |
| Total Pre-fermented Flour | 10.07% | 53 |
Comments
That does look wonderful, and the formula looks like the kind of bread we like best. <bump> It's on the top of the to bake list.
David
You wont regret it David!
I think from reading your posts over the years I have a good idea of the types of bread you favour. If I'm right, this is one you should definitely make. The high hydration makes this one sticky and a bit of a challenge to shape tightly, but the 86% hydration is the key to what makes this bread so good. Looking forward to seeing your version sometime soon.
All the best,
Franko
I had just sat down at my computer to search out the history of this bread when I saw you had replied to my message. I am activating my starter this evening to make the two levains. (Hope the sourdough terminology police don't get after me.)
Regards,
David
Will do David!
I did some searching for it's history as well and found zilch...but I'm notoriously poor at searching and tend to give up too easily. I'd be interested to see what you found if you wouldn't mind sharing the links.
Franko
I made the original and one closer to Josh's but come up with the same findings. Both versions - the crumb is just amazing so soft and moist. The rye wheat whole grain taste is everything we shoot for and the tang very assertive. You findings are the same as mine and we will make this bread over and over with some changes each time. You and josh baked yours more boldly than we did. The bold bake has to be better,
Great bake Franko and happy baking
I went back to the Mexican market to get some more beef head meat but it was gone:-( I did get some beef and pork cheek meat though which was'nt ther before. Now the sausage will be two or 3 different kinds :-)
Thanks dab!
Now that I have a baseline for what the bread is I'll play around with the formula in subsequent bakes as well... as long as I can remember not to stray too far from that line.The bold bake brings out some great crust flavours, no question, but the high initial heat does wonders for the crumb as well. Too bad about the head meat being sold out but plan B sounds like a good one. I'm sure it'll be delicious, and hoping that we get to see the finished product.
Cheers,
Franko
and the woman from there that shared the original formula.
I never did follow the recipe tit for tat as I always used whole rye in every version. But all the amalgamations along the way have been great eats.
@Franko Your loaf looks fantastic. You really nailed it. If I read correctly you used the with two levains (one rye and one white). I think that was my favorite but I highly suggest trying the original version with the 18 hour Whole Wheat Levain.
@ dab Your versions were also excellent. I think you'll need to make it again and get the burnished crust that I rave over. Then you'll be in business.
Franko nailed it though. The sweet burnsihed crust with the soft tangy crumb are a match made in heaven.
Happy y'all concur on this one. I can't get enough of it. And after seeing Franko's pic I want to make another batch
Happy Baking
Josh
and have the same question as Andy....right from fridge or ? All of my breads I always shape/one hour at room temp/retard/bake right from fridge. This one says shape and then right to retard.. thanks in advance. Only changes I made were to use sprouted rye for the rye flours in the levain as well as the dough and I used whey in the levain. I also soaked the flours overnight in the water at room temp. will see what we get. The dough is like silk and tremendous pleasure to s&f....amazing development. Thank you ! c
Hi,
After bulk and a light pre-shape with a 15 minute rest, I shaped the dough and placed it seam side up in well floured linen and then into an oval brotform. Then straight in to the fridge for a little over 12 hours. Ten minutes on the counter and a quick slash before loading in the oven, with as much steam as possible. I'll be interested to hear what effect the overnight autolyse had on the bread so please keep us posted. Best wishes for the bake.
Franko
didn't hear back in time so I shaped and let it set out for 1 hr and then placed in the fridge. When I shape I don't do a long rest...just place it out on the counter and divide and shape according to the original direction...made 3 boules ( I doubled the formula so had approx. 2000 gr. and placed in floured banneton. Rise an hour and then retard the banneton in plastic bags. So we shall see. I take a page from Ian's book....every formula I make gets the exact same treatment..for good or ill :) I preheat my cast iron pots at 500 for 30 min...place cold boules in and spray 5 mists with sprayer...cover and leave at 500 for 5 min...lower to 460 for 15 min...uncover and finish...15 min...will be 212 internal temp . I will definitely post back.
Thank you David...I just love your attention to detail as well as that which has brought this loaf to its current prominence in the TFL forum. We shall see what the morrow brings. Thank you Franko for your response . c
Sorry I was tardy, too many distractions and interruptions here today I'm afraid.
Franko
This is what keeps TFL interesting. Now we will have an idea of possible variations. Will keep you posted. Thank you and Josh..I never would have tried this otherwise. c
This is what keeps TFL interesting. Now we will have an idea of possible variations. Will keep you posted. Thank you and Josh..I never would have tried this otherwise. c
Couldn't agree more Josh, thanks to the folks that originally developed this bread for people to enjoy.
Truly appreciate your kind words on the loaf and happy that I was able to do it justice. Having a solid formula and procedure to work with was a pleasure and everything just ticked along the way you described it. The only change to procedure I'll make next time is an additional S&F because of the flours I use. The dough was just a shade off where I'd prefer to have it for shaping but other than that it all went well. Great stuff Josh, thanks again for sharing this with us all.
Best wishes,
Franko
My kind of bread too!
Hi Franko, did you bake the loaf cold, or allow some recovery time before loading to the oven?
Best wishes
Andy
Hi Andy,
Yes I'm positive you'd like this one my friend, it has flavour to burn.
It was the only time in recent memory that I've loaded a cold dough into a hot oven. The time it spent at room temp was about 10 minutes while I was getting the steam system ready and the oven well charged with steam before loading. As it was the dough seemed a little past optimum but it's difficult to judge when the dough is as soft as this one was. In any case I had a strong hunch it wouldn't improve by warming up. Perhaps next time I'll do two loaves to compare cold v warm bake off. My money is on cold but it would be interesting to know for sure. Good question!
All the best,
Franko
Marvelous results, and excellent formula. I'll have to try this.
Thanks, Josh
Thanks, Franko!
Thanks Khalid!
With your fresh milled flours to use in the dough, not making this bread would simply be wrong, in turn forcing me to fly to Dubai and talk some sense into you ;^)
Cheers my friend,
Franko
These sorts of questions tickle my academic reflexes. So, at the risk of providing TMI ... I assure you this is the Executive Summary:
This bread comes from the Swiss Canton of Ticino, which is the only Swiss Canton in which Italian is the predominant language.
While the Ticino Canton has Lake Maggiore on its border, the name of the bread supposedly comes from the town of Maggia which is in the Maggia valley, named after the Maggia river which flows through it and enters Lake Maggiore between the towns of Ascona and Locarno.
I was interested in how this bread came to be so popular among food bloggers. As far as I can tell, Franko, dabrownman and others (on TFL) got the formula from Josh/golgi70 (on TFL) who got it from Plotzblog.de who got it from “Chili und Ciabatta,” the last two being German language blogs. While Petra (of Chili und Ciabatta) knew of this bread from having vacationed in Ticino, she actually got her recipe from a well-known Swedish baking book, Swedish Breads and Pastries, by Jan Hedh.
Here are some photos of the bread as Petra had it in Ticino:
And, for our Geography lesson, here's a map of part of the Swiss/Italian lake country. Maggia can be found towards the left upper corner.
And, now, we will return to our regular scheduled bread blog.
David
Way to do the research and get us to the real roots.
Josh
Thanks David!
Had an aha! moment when you mentioned Jan Hedh's book, which I've had for several years now. Ever since seeing Josh's post I've been thinking there was something familiar about the name, or the bread, but just couldn't put my finger on it till you mentioned the book. In the book Hedh's formula is titled Pane Valle Maggia. Close, but apparently not enough for me to make the connection from memory...such as it is. I appreciate the leg work David, always good to know the background of these venerable breads we enjoy so much.
Franko
when I went to plotzblog.de to do some reading about,the recipe Josh was originally inspired by, there were 2 recipes very similar to each other. One was Pan Maggiore and the other was Pane Valle Maggia. I could be that Petra did the original Pane Valle Maggia and the folks at Plotzblog had their way with it to come up with Pan Maggiore? Then Josh has is take, you and I our take and David soon enough......perhaps it is 'Uber Maggiore of the Valley' now:-)
The Pane Valle Maggia in Hedh's " Swedish Breads & Pastries is a yeasted dough, although he does include white sourdough, presumably for flavour more so than leavening. The crumb shot accompanying the recipe shows what I'd call a tight crumb, nothing like any of the loaves Josh, you, or I have made so far. In fact, the Pan Valle Maggia formula looks rather ho hum to me compared to many of the others in his book. I imagine Lutz thought so as well.
Franko
If Petra's version is taken unchanged from Hedh's book, he mixes rather intensively. That may account for this tight crumb.
David
Hmm, interesting.
Hedh's dough looks to be around 81% hydration so I wouldn't think it'd be picking up that much friction from the bowl to become "tough" after 10 minutes on low and five on "increased" speed, assuming he's mixing in a domestic KA type mixer. "Elastic" yes, I can see that, but whether he means 2nd or 3rd speed isn't clear either and too many other unknowns, particularly flour, to say for sure. I wonder if his inclusion of sourdough is intended to act as a dough conditioner, the acid from the sour helping to strengthen the gluten and offset what might otherwise be a challenging dough for the average home baker to work with. Whatever the case, it's not a formula I'd want to use if it results in a crumb like the one in the photo.
Franko
Love this one Franko! I have book marked this one along with DA's version and Josh's version. I have made a similar bread with a double starter but not at this high a hydration so I can't wait to see how it comes out.
Regards,
Ian