Trying to Improve the Crumb

Hi Phyllis

So this looks to be the Classic Sourdough you did in your LaCloche.  The previous photo from above didn't show us how tall the loaf was but this crumb shot does.   It's a lovely looking loaf but you seem to be wanting something "more".   What is it that you want to see?   For me, your crumb here looks very regular, all the pockets a similar size and mostly on the small size.  Now that I can see the height of the loaf I'm wondering if perhaps you are not getting enough oven spring and overall height and whether that is affecting the crumb. 

Either way, if you could maybe tell us a little about your method and the recipe you used it may give us some indications?

Cheers

EP

Please do post your formula and procedure you followed.  There are several things that can dramatically affect the crumb with one major thing being how you handle the dough and another being the hydration.  If you handle the dough too heavy handed it will cause you to lose some of the nice Co2 gasses trapped inside. 
Another thing could be how you are mixing and if you are machine kneading the dough.  The longer you mix and knead with a machine the more uniform the holes will become.

Ian

Might the British flour make a difference in the oven spring? 

Tom C

I mean I think I know why your starter would go crazy, as self raising flour has baking powder added to it, baking powder has bicarb in it. Bicarbonate reacts to acid by fizzing up wildly. I assume it would react with the acids in your starter in a similar way, although not as pronounced as the raising agents are diluted in the flour. I assume that by the time you baked there was still enough energy to lift and lighten the crumb a bit.

I think that adding a little extra water might open the crumb a bit more. But then you might encounter the problem that I have been having, which is the dough spreading out more rather than going up. But the crumb is improving! Oh! There is just so much to learn! I correct one problem and create another! But on the whole there is progress.

If baking in England again, you want bread flour, it is called bread flour and is the right sort of protein content, (unlike what I have read of US flour) unless it is called very strong bread flour. All the supermarkets will stock some bread flour that will be ok, and the bigger ones usually stock some good quality organic ones. Plain flour here is the more like what I think you would call cake flour.

Was the loaf pictured made with self-raising flour then?  If so that's the reason for the cake like structure.  Protein level of self raising is about 8% I think vs the 11%+ of bread flour.

If this wasn't made with self-raising then the "problem" lies elsewhere.   In the recipe you cited it states:

"When you make the loaves, if the dough seems quite active, but the loaves do not rise or they retract when baked, it is probably due to the acidity level in the dough. If the loaf is unusually sour, you’ll know this is what happened."

So, is your starter quite sour and acidic?  Have you had any hooch on it for example? 

Your bread looks good to me. Perhaps it's spread out a bit due to hydration?

In my experience the crumb and oven spring are tied to gluten development. I've been getting much better results lately by 1) using King Arthur Flour bread flour (instead of AP flour), 2) mixing to 'windowpane' with my Kitchen Aid, and 3) adding Vital Wheat Gluten to my "levain" (starter fed to meet the preferment requirement of the recipe).

I also usually mix the flour and water to let it autolyse, which is said to aid in gluten development.

The sourdough that I currently make is that from Reinhart's Bread Baker's Apprentice. I put the maximum amount of water (called for in the recipe) into the dough, then as it's mixing I add a teeny bit more ... aiming for ~72% hydration.

So far - for me - the results have been excellent.

YMMV. Keep us posted.

Cheers-
Dave

PS: pre and final shaping are also important, but I'm not sure it's something directly tied to crumb/oven spring.