January 25, 2013 - 2:49am
L-Cysteine
I've read about L-Cysteine on this forum and elsewhere and I'm trying to get hold of it. For those who don't know, it's a kind of dough relaxer. I would like to know where I could get hold of some? I am in the UK. But it would be interesting to hear if it's possible to purchase elsewhere too. Thanks.
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It is a supplement and you should be able to find it with the vitamins and other supplements at your local store. Do take note that it is derived from hair or feathers. It is an amino acid so it relaxes the dough chemically by breaking it down quicker. Here is a link for those interested.
http://www.vrg.org/blog/2011/03/09/l-cysteine-in-bread-products-still-mostly-sourced-from-human-hair-duck-feathers-hog-hair/
Thanks for your reply. Isn't it possible to purchase it as a dough relaxer? Do you know of anything else which is reasonalby easy to get hold of that has the same effects on dough as L-Cysteine? I need the dough to be very relaxed so that the dough will stretch well. In fact it's for noodle dough.
reportedly has the same effect. Kill it covering it with salt and stir well, then let it foam:-)
Bara, how badly do you want to use such additive in your recipes? Some health conscious food retailers in US (Whole Foods is one of them) list it as "Unacceptable Ingredient" in the bread products they carry, as below their quality standards.
Hi Bara 1,
You can use Sodium Metabisulphite to relax your dough...it is used extensively in biscuit production. But use minuscule amounts, otherwise your dough will just fall to pieces; we are talking a maximum of 80 parts per million on flour!
Interestingly, industrial UK bakers don't use L-Cysteine that much anymore. They tend to rely on enzymes wherever possible to formulate dough conditioners and Improvers...because they don't have to tell you what they put in the bread, whereas L-Cysteine has to be declared as an 'e' number.
I'm afraid I don't work with any bakers who use improvers anymore, so I don't have access to anything you could use. Really you can only buy this sort of preparation in large quantities. If you are manufacturing commercially, I would contact a supplier such as Bako, or BFP. I am UK based, by the way.
Best wishes
Andy
Thank you both for your replies. I don't manufacture commercially Andy. In fact, what I wanted it for was to make noodles. I managed to get a sample of what the Chinese use for this particular noodle and I had it analysed in the UK. I was told that it contained Sodium Dithinite which isn't allowed to be used in the EU for consumption purposes. This is similar to the Sodium Metabisulphite you mention in that it gives off a sulphur odour when dissolved. I wish I had more scientific knowledge to understand how they react with the gluten etc so that I could find more alternatives etc. Anyway, this compound containing the Sodium Dithinite once dissovled in water became a little cloud and I would say almost a blue/green colour. I suppose that might not be very important here but once added to dough, the dough quickly changed charachteristic and it would almost behave like warm chewing gum which had been left on to of a heater in that it would stretch and stretch. The analysis also stated:
"This compound is also known as sodium hydrosulphite, but is
also occasionally referred to as as sodium hyposulphide. As a powerful reducing agent it might be expected to have
flour improver properties.
An assay for Dithionite gave the following result:-Sodium Dithionite 0.4%; this chemical is not an approved food
additive in the EU. On this basis the use of the sample material as a flour improver, or for any other purpose in / on
food is not permitted."
I hope that I can get more suggestions of things to try for the purpose I mentioned above. Of course, I must try out Sodium Metabisulphite as you mentioned Andy. Thanks.
Hi Bara 1,
Sodium Metabisulphite is sold by home brew shops, as it is used as a sterlising agent for cleaning out beer and wine bottles and other equipment.
It is very powerful stuff; don't overdose or your dough will disintegrate completely. If you want to know about industrial dough mixing, look up the "di-sulphide interchange". 80ppm equates to 0.08g per kilo of flour, ok!?
Best wishes
Andy
Thanks Andy. When you mean 'dissintigrate" do you meanlike I described before ie becomes like chewing gum? And if too much of the compound I mentioned which was Chinese was added then the dough would become not liquid but more like liquid in characteristics and impossible to use basically but it could be reclaimed after a period in the freezer. Anyway, this is interesting to me and I'll check your link tomorrow when I get up. :-)
No, there's no way back Bara 1,
If the dose is too high, then your dough is useless.
Of course, there is another great dough relaxant: time! Leaving the dough to rest is a great alternative to chemicals..especially ones which don't carry approval for food use.
All good wishes
Andy
Just mix up some sugar water and yeast, let it grow for an hour and heat it in the microwave to 50°C to kill off the yeast. Then use a little bit in your dough.
I just read an article that stated L-Cysteine is (or can be) made from human or animal hair. Grossed me out and I'm even a vegetarian.
I haven't got round to trying any of these suggestions yet as I've been busy. I would want to be able to make hopefully quite a lot of noodles in a 'cafe' setting. I've seen people say to rest the dough for and hour/a few hours etc but you really need something to speed up the process if your making it to order for other people. I've never seeb anybody doing it in a commercial setting without some form of relaxant.....even those Chinese noodle pullers who've been doing it for years. But trying to get information from them on what they are using is bordering on the impossible.
Sorry I brought this old thread up again. @nicodvb said something about killed yeast, however that method seems ineffective. lessafre sells a type of bread improver called "deactivated yeast", it might go with different brand name, SF relax, baker's bonus but the main ingredient is deactivated yeast. It's made by killing the yeast at certain temperature, and it acts as reducing agent. the process activate glutathione that relax the gluten strands, making it easier during mixing and stretching. and on top of that, its natural too. many vegetarians use it to supplement their diet