sesame seed bagels

Hi Meedo,
Your bagels look fantastic. I have been baking them for years now and am interested to know why you put baking soda in the poaching water. Does it affect the flavour? After seeing yours, I have decided to substitute some white flour for wholewheat flour. I use 50% milk as the liquid which enhances the flavour too.

Just found your Great pics!  ooh, they look gooood!   gotta make me some....  Mini Oven

Thanks Meedo Will try the baking soda out. M

If you dont mind me jumpin in here, I thought I would add a little about the Soda part.

Reinhart has in the BBA "However, I prefer to use a small amount of baking soda to alkalize the water, as it is readily available and replicates closest the flavor of lye baths used commercially.  The alkalizing of the water causes a slightly different quality of gelatinization of the outer starches on the surface of the dough, inducing more shine and a richer caramelization of the crust when it bakes."

I personally make water bagels quite a bit, and have tried it with and without.  I like it with, I use a 20qt. stock pot so I can boil 6 at a time, and pour in baking soda 1 tablespoon at a time until my water is the color of tea. I then boil my bagels for 2 minutes on the first side, and 1 1/2 on the other.  The only other main difference from what meedo is doing above is, I boil, then bake at a much higher temp. for much shorter times.  Where Meedo is baking, boiling, then baking again.

Not judging one way to be better than another just stating my difference.  No insult intended meedo, your bagels look great.

Tattooed Tonka

Hi Tattooed Tonka,
I think both Meedo as well as myself will benefit from that information. It certainly makes sense. Can't work out though why the water turns to the colour of tea. So for 20 quarts of water, about how many Tbs baking soda would you use? (Just trying to get an idea of the proportions). I have a reasonably shallow wide cooking pan for poaching. When I first poached the bagels for 2 minutes per side,some of my clientele thought the bagels were stale! (an Antipodean assumption). I poach and then bake but proof them a little before the poaching (for this Antipodean preference) !!
Thank you for coming into this discussion. I have a lot of yeast baking books here but not the time to read then except for taking the odd recipe out; as I have to bake and cook and manage the cafe at the moment ( and for the last 11 years!)

Hi Meedo,
Has your oven temp. been hot enough? I cook mine on 220ºC (or actually 200ºC Fan-forced). Don't know what that is in Fahrenheit figures.M

Hi Meedo,
Don't get me wrong - I think your bagels are really beautiful. i'm just surprised that you bake, then poach, then bake. If you were poaching them 7 minutes a side - it's no wonder they shrank. What recipe source were you using? I don't know how true it is - and perhaps someone else coiuld comment here - but I read that the original Jewish bagels were poached in boiling water only. Seven minutes aside - are you sure that otherwise wasn't a misprint? I only poach mine for 20 seconds a side otherwise my bagels wouldn't sell (New Yorkers - please forgive me!) M

Hi sis,

 Your bagels look fantastic,I will add your recipe to my recipes collection.

(by the way meedo my young sister)

zainab

Hi Meedo,
Floyd has a recipe under 'Favourite Recipes" - but i will hunt out my original recipe for you. M

Hi Tattooedtonka,
Thank you for the photos - I'll try the soda with to-morrow morning's bagels. My staff were a bit dubious when I told them about the above to-day, but i'm quite convinced about its efficacy.M

Hi TT,
When you say foamy do you mean an instant foam which dies down to a a bit of froth? Don't suppose it is important - more so the colour of tea as illustrated. M

Of course when you first put it in, you get the big splash of foam.  Then it dies down to a froth. 

This froth continues to boil up from the bottom of the pan, making alot more gas hitting the surface, than just boiling plain water.

SO I wonder, how did it work for you, were you able to try it today?

TT

Hi TT,
Yes I did but no it didn't work! Can't work out where the problem lay. To about 5 litres of water in my shallow poaching pan, I added 1Tb baking soda, and continued to add bakng soda slowly while waiting for the water to become tea coloured. My staff looked on in shock as the water frothed and bubbled up and over the pan and extinguished the gas flame! We relit the gas and waited for the foam to subside before putting in one test bagel and poached it 20secs per side. The bagel looked a more lemony colour than its mates after poaching ( the others had already been poached) and the gelatinisation of the surface gave it a nice finish/sheen. It baked well to an even brown colour - but the crisp crust was loaded with the soda flavour!
Unfortunatlely my inorganic chemistry has long been forgotten. But two things may have contributed to the failure. Firstly, the poaching kettle is made of aluminium and secondly, our water is heavily chlorinated. I may go for a compromise and add 1Tb soda as Meedo does and poach them a little longer. I'm going to win here!
Can you comment on this diabolical failure?!! (Following that I made some really great carrot cakes, so hopefully my credibility with the staff was restored (just kidding - they are very forgiving kids and have a great sense of humour). M

Hi Meedo,
The following recipe is very straight forward but may not taste as good as Floyd's. It is an Australian recipe which I use in a bulk quantity for the cafe (it's frozen in batches to last 1-1/2 weeks). Each Tablespoon (Tb) measures 20ml or 4 teaspoons).
2-1/2 teaspoons of quick-acting yeast
1 Tb sugar
1/2 cup warm water
1 cup warm milk
3 cups white flour
1 Tb salt
1 Tb sugar, extra
1 egg yolk
1 tsp water, extra
1 Tb poppy seeds or sesame seeds
• Combine yeast, sugar, milk and water in a large bowl, whisk until yeast has dissolved. Cover, stand in a warm place about 10 minutes or until mixture is frothy. Stir sifted flour, salt and extra sugar into yeast mixture in 2 batches, and mix to a firm dough.
• Gather dough into a ball, transfer to a lightly greased bowl, turn the dough to coat all sides with oil, cover the bowl tightly with plastic wrap, and let rise in a warm place until doubled in bulk; about 1 hour. (At this point the dough can be punched down, covered, and refrigerated for up to overnight).
• Turn dough onto a floured surface, knead until smooth; divide dough into 12 portions. Working with 1 piece of dough at a time, shape into a smooth round by lightly pulling the surface of the dough to the underside and pinching together, repeating until a contact ball of dough is formed. Roll in a circular motion on the bench under the palm of the hand. Lightly press to flatten into a disc. Poke your index finger through to make a hole. Pick up the dough with your finger in the hole and insert your other index finger through the other side of the hole. Rotate your fingers around each other, stretching the dough to make a ring with an opening about 4cm in diameter. Place on a greased bakiong tray and repeat with the remaining dough pieces. Allow to stand in a warm place for 20 minutes or until risen.
• Drop bagels individually in a pan of boiling water, they must not touch. Turn bagels after 15 seconds, boil another 15 seconds, remove with a slotted spoon. Place bagels on greased trays. Brush tops with combined egg yolk and water, Sprinkle with seeds.
•Bake in moderately hot oven for about 20 minutes. Cool on a wire rack.
• Makes 12 bagels

Good luck, M

this recipe make me remember the  my grandmam home

 there is the great smell

and taste

thanx

http://alyaman2002.blogspot.com/

alyaman

Just thought I would jump iin on this. Here is the recipe I use and everyone loves them.

1000g   Flour, Bread

500g    Water

50g     Oil

50g     Malt, syrup or diastatic powder (there must be live enzyemes in there)

15g     Salt, Kosher

10g     Yeast, instant

Increase water some if using malt powder, no more than 550g.

Mix and seal in a container. Place in fridge to cold ferment for 6-8 hours. Scale the dough at 100g and shape. Let rest at room temp for 30 min to relax the dough. Bring pot of water to a slight boil and add some malt syrup or honey. Boil about 15-20 sec per side. Add toppings and bake at 400 F with convection till golden brown.

Looking good!

I'm off today and am torn between making bagles (I use Hamelmans formula but with a lye dip), sourdough with a new starter , or a miche.

Decisions, decisons :)