August 23, 2012 - 3:05pm
Chicken Stock
Has anyone done any bread making using chicken stock? What can one expect from using stock for the liquid in the dough? I'm doing a search on TFL site.
Thanking you ahead of time.
Update:
We make chicken stock by browning the meat and bones, adding in tons of leftover ends and pieces og veggies that we freeze for stock making. We raft the huge amount of veggies on top to clear the stock as it simmers for hours and hours. If it doesn't come out chocolate brown and set up like jello shots it isn't stock. The bread came out fantastic and can be found here
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/29899/multigrain-sd-yw-combo-chicken-stock-soaker-seeds
Here are some pix's
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That sounds like a great idea! Love it. Extra layers of umami in an already savory product. Maybe add some mushrooms or truffles for extra savor. I may have to co-opt your idea :)
I wouldn't think there would be any issues. As far as a sort-of "raw" food product, probably no different that incorporating milk into bread. Since stocks are fairly lean, I would probably use 1:1 with water, probably adjust salt downward (depending on salt level in stock).
Let us know how it turns out!
I did read about someone on TFL using a chicken stew in place of the water and they said it came out great. By the time it is baked I would imagine a stock would only add a very mild undertone to the bread and make it moist most likely. Don't forget to add the carrots, onions and celery!
.... with chicken stock and seasoned with sage, rosemary & thyme, with bits of roasted chicken skin throughout as "chicken cracklin' ".
I'm with cranbo - intuitively, I don't think the fat that would be in the stock would be enough to make a HUGE difference in the mix, and the salt could be adjusted based on how salty the stock is, so it should be able to be treated like water. Happy to be corrected, though, by anyone who's used it.
Let us know how it turns out for you!
on or in just about anything being Southern Boy at heart. The bread turned out well - even my wife liked it for lunch. I posted a blog on this bread and some photos above. I took out all the fat in the stock for this bread.
One of the very few loaves we've thrown out was my chicken stock bread attempt but that could've just been us. We didn't like the aftertaste that hung around in our mouths. I had put a little chicken fat in as well. Maybe it was that. Anyway, we won't be trying it again but you may like it. Chacun a son gout.
Hi Brownman,
I did with Ratatouille Broth (just replace the water with broth) and it turn out great!! Taste of tomatoes and beautiful orang/red colour. Once I used some leftover chicken stock, it was moist but the taste was not really there.. may be lack of herbs, garlic and onions..here's a look at my ratatouille boule...I am new to bread making but have learnt a lot from your post. Thank you
http://frenchnyonya.blogspot.fr/2012/08/ratatouille-sunflower-seed-sourdough.html
beautiful rattatouille bread you made! We love ratatoulli and make chicken stock the way French Grannies make it in the countryside while waiting for their country sourdough to rise. My chicken stock bread came out well
Long ago I made a recipe for baking the skin from an entire chicken rolled into a loaf of bread. Absolutely unforgettably delicious, I think that it was a recipe from Jacques Pepin. Skin a chicken and bake the skin until brown and slightly crispy, roll the skin into a french bread type dough and there you have it.
As for chicken stock in bread, unless you made the stock your self there is a 99% chance that the stock will contain monosodium glutamate or another form of free glutamic acid, a known neurotoxin. I would avoid anything other than homemade stock. If it is the chicken flavor that you seek, I would follow the Pepin recipe.
Jeff
Yup, it was my own homemade stock. Why the bread was so wrong, I can't tell you. It could just be that we didn't like it due to random druthers. I have a friend who says if other people tasted what he tastes when he has green peppers, it would not be considered a food.
Jeff, not to hijack this thread, and because I usually don't jump into these kinds of "religious" debates, but let's be clear and accurate: glutamates are naturally occuring, in everything from nori to fermented soy to tomatoes to potatoes, and most animal proteins. Your response came across as though using store-bought chicken stock was similar to adding cyanide or hexavalent chromium to your bread, which is not likely to cause the same harmful effects.
I do agree that people should know (and be careful about) what goes into their food, I do agree that some people have sensitivities to specific ingredients (never mind MSG, what about gluten?!), and I do agree that ingesting any single food item in large quantities is probably going to be detrimental to your health, especially long-term. You obviously have a strong opinion about the dangers of glutamates, which is OK, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Yep, life is detrimental to...life. :) That's why we have the interweb, to help people sort these things out ;)
Now back to baking bread with chicken stock.
There are countless "naturally occuring" substances that when ingested in their natural state will do no harm to anyone and can in fact be quite beneficial. However, to take a substance the monosodium glutamate and concentrate it in pure form it can and does become toxic. Monosodium glutamate is a neurotoxin, of this there is no doubt. This is not a matter of sensitivities, this is a matter of toxicity. Almost every chicken stock on the grocery store shelves has free glutamic acid in it under any one of a variety of names. If you consume store bought chicken stock, you will almost assuredly be consuming free glutamic acid. This simply restates what I said in my previous post, no more, no less.
Jeff
Funny, but the Mayo Clinic doesn't think MSG is a neurotoxin.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/monosodium-glutamate/AN01251
This scientific reference states that baby mice injected with MSG developed brain lesions.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/5507208
This scientific reference states that the brain lesions in mice don't develop when the MSG is given to them with food.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18341218
And this scientific reference finds that human beings, even infant human beings, don't suffer from ingesting large doses of MSG.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10597625
Excitotoxicity is the pathological process by which nerve cells are damaged and killed by excessive stimulation by neurotransmitters such as glutamate and similar substances.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxicity
If you are a baby mouse you shouldn't inject yourself with MSG. If you are a human being, you probably shouldn't blindly let the results of injections to baby mice determine what you eat.
in all things is wise ......but borders on boring as all get out most of the time. I'm startingn to get an undeniable hankering for MSG bread. I say start at the same amount as salt in the bread and go for it from there. MSG can't be as bad for you as the salt. The kooky, beyond nut job; Bloomberg, head of NY Gestapo Food Police, hasn't banned it yet. But maybe, just maybe we should leave this one to Ian?
Sometimes it is best to be ignorant....I follow your motto of all things in moderation. I have no issue with salt when used as a flavor enhancer but not as an excuse to mask flavorless artificial crap.
Never really thought about or worried too much about MSG.
beyond your years and your bread is not boring. I'm thinking your moderation in applucation is beyond your bread scope :-)
When I was a child, I used to sneak some Accent onto the otherwise plain slices of Wonder Bread I was allowed to eat for a snack. Now, that was boring bread. *laugh*
MSG bag recently since I hardly ever use it. Bought this one 2 years ago and it is still unopend. Will save it for a slimy white slice of Wonder Bread :-0
foods with natural glutamate. This stock was rich with them but no fat or salt was allowed. Never had any bread like this one. It is really nice in every way but I froze it to make sure no problems with the chicken stock later. I have MSG but don't cook with it much unless it is an Oriental recipe that calls for it - they live forever for some reason and this might be it :-)
Good Morning Dabrownman:
Your chicken stock and your bread are outstanding! You have my deepest respect for the chicken stock! With my cooking I have to "cut corner" and use "can chicken stock" and knowing all the time that it is 2nd. rate. Congratulation for a great job well done.
My weeks are not going well. Early in August I decide to show case and promote my cooking school by planning to sell my foods at a nearby farmers market. I sent a request via e-mail to the Agriculture/food inspector office on August 2nd . Three phone calls later he answered two days ago and asked if my proposed food have any meat in it. I said yes, and another regulation started. He said that I must have my meat "re-inspected"( I buy my meat at Sam's warehouse. So I don't see the point. I have to contact the agency in Richmond so another wait). Also the location of the Farmers market is not a commercial site so they can not grant me a certificate to o.k. it.(The market is in business for two years now) . It seems absurd to make "little people" go to so much rules just to make a few buck.
I know that this site has nothing to do with what I am doing but just get my annoying of my chest. No wonder, little business goes nowhere. VA. is for big business.
mantana
run around from local bureaucrats or they are being racist and bigoted - hey, it works for half of America all the time - so why not you. Usually politicians are complete do nothing, morons and nincompoops of the highest order, but in this case you might want to complain to your local elected representative and try to get them look into whether or not this other group of idiots is treating you unfairly.
Getting a politician to do anything is like inventing the elixir of life using nails, wood chips and small nuclear devices, but if you stay after them, kicking them in the toosh all the way you, might get some satisfaction when it is too late and worthless. Since you are doing something that might kill one of the people paying them money under the table not to do what they want you to do, they will have special tiny, impossible hoops for you to jump through.
It would be fun just to see how these witches and wizards try to evade doing what you want them to do. You can always get to the local TV station and newspapers too. They have a 'little person gets screwed' department where they generate stories by helping folks through the insidious red tape government employees surround themselves with so they don't ever have to do anything at all. It's great non work if you can find it.
In another part of the country we actually hired the mayors daughter to help us get our project through the city's design review, planning, development and construction departments. It still took a year but it was better than 3 years and only took 8 working days in Mesa, AZ doing the same thing.
If we still lived in Richmond, my apprentice and I would do this for you just for the giggles. Just get a street food license instead or a food truck license without the truck - just tell then it is in the shop.
Your bread sounds tasty. Do you think there is any problem with leaving it out of the refrigerator? I've always wondered that about breads with meat and cheese in them.
I froze it all and will eat it slice by slice. Very tasty bread and unlike any other I have ever had. Should make great croutons and stuffing too.
Thanks MC
Hi everyone,
Hey DAbrownman. Thanks for the idea. If you don't mind I would like to share my two chicken stocks with you. Maybe it can be added to your range for a different style of bread. You never know. I converted from gram weight to pounds & ounces. The recipes call for a pressure cooker but a large soup pot cooking the ingredients for 2 hours or so will do the same job for both stock styles. The clear broth stock is great for a warm light winter lunch. Fill a 1/3rd of a soup mug with stock jell and fill with boiling water. Very little calories(or kilojuiles)providing the set fat is removed but packed with nutruition vitamins and minerals.
Clear Chicken Stock
Ingredients Best for Chinese Soups and Dishes and clear healthy broth drink
1lb chicken wings/ necks and any raw carcases of fowl available
½ rough cut onion, ½ Carrot roughly broken or chopped, couple whole mushrooms, rough chopped celery stick and parsley
Enough water to cover the stock bones.
Salt and Pepper to taste
Note. Chicken wings are best cuts as they contain the most gelatine for setting the stock.
Method
Place all ingredients in a pressure cooker and add 1pint cold water. Bring to pressure cooker up to steam turn to low and simmer for half an hour.
Turn off heat and let cool naturally on same hot plate. Do not release pressure as this helps with the flavour of the stock. When cooled strain stock from vegetable matter into a container and place in the fridge. Discard vegetable matter.
Place stock in fridge and let set till it becomes a jelly with set fat on top. Remove the set fat for a healthy stock.
Roast Chicken Stock.
Ingredients Best for gravy and winter soups.
1lb chicken wings/ necks and any raw carcases of fowl available.
Generous 2 Tbspoons of powdered milk
1/3rd pint of water
Enough water to cover chicken pieces.
Carrot onion herbs and crushed garlic (optional) as for clear stock above with water.
Salt to taste.
Method
Place chicken pieces in a baking tray add 1/3rd of water. Sprinkle chicken pieces with milk powder. Roast in hot oven till caramelised cooked.
Strain fat and place cooked chicken with any pan juices in a pressure cooker along with all other ingredients.
Bring to pressure and lower temperature to simmer for half an hour. Let cool, strain and discard vegetable matter. Let stock cool and jell in fridge.
Remove the set fat for a healthy stock. Great base for an old fashion hardy winters night soup.
Both stocks can be frozen and used as required. Milk powder is a intense protein food before it is broken down with water. By adding it to the chicken bones it intensifies the chicken flavour of the stock. Or so the theory goes from a TV chef I watch. Any way it worked for me.
I hope these can be of use to anyone's recipe book................Cheers............Pete.
Pressure cooker would sure speed things up.
Cheers mate.
I got beef bones slow boiling on the stove. Roasted them first and saved the tallow. An array of vegetable thrown in...
I roast my chicken first, de-bone (eat it) and then throw what's left over (bones,cartilage, guts, pan drippings) into the soup pot. Get 2 tasty meals that way. :) Do the same with those store bought already roasted chickens too!
If we are roasting a chicken we debone it and eat the meat and the freeze the bones and what ever is left over for the soup pot when we have about 10 of them while saving up the odds and ends of veggies a freezing them too. If we are grilling chicken which is about 95% of the time then we debone and skin it first, freeze the bones for roasting later before going in the freezer and the chicken meat is marinated for the grill outside. We just don't eat that much roasted chicken because we like to do it bear can style abd that won't fit in the mini oven and Big Old Betsy is only used in the winter time.
Good Morning:
Thank you for your kind comments Dabrownman but I don't think that my contact to the local representatives will result in anything either. Here Why:
I volunteered as a Farmers market manager in my neck of the wood two years ago. I did the job free of charge for three years. We asked we begged for funding and it has never come so one year my vendors, their family and our market team( total 13) went to the board meeting and petitioned our Board of County of Supervisor with a verbal and written request for some funding for the market. We also submitted the sign petitioned from more than 100 signatures of our customers. My market representative addressed the meeting and submitted the request forms to all the Board members. Three years later, they are still did not "even responses" to us. At the meeting there was a reporter from Lynchburg. He interviewed us and did a story about our plight, no response and not even a phone call from the Board! Two other newspapers (including the Roanoke times)did the same story on the same month. Still no responses.
I don't know how the other part of the country response to their residences but the above was my experiences.
Want to listen to another one of my pet peeve? About 7 years ago I was offered a "huge" business opportunity to sell my ready to eat "Thai foods" at the Co-op store in Roanoke.The Co-op management informed me that they are going to get a refrigerator unit just for my food! I was very excited but the same food inspector told me that I have to have all my meat re-inspected and several other requirements to the point that I finally gave up! I realized that it was not worth it to have to face so many stresses.
Years later, I am told by this same inspector that the reason for the above requirements was because they didn't know what to do with me since they have no one doing what I propose to do so they have a meeting of all the Inspectors and came up with the requirements I have to meet in order to sell my foods! None of this are in writing but by phone calls so I have no prove!
So, I don't think that anyone will be able to help me(while I am in this area) and I have to chalk it up that it was my "bad Karma".
Thank you very much for your kind comments and for listening. The TFL brothers and sisters are the one that I get so much joy from so it is my blessing and I am honored to be a part of it.
Mantana
has cottage food laws on the books too - it's sad when they don't follow their own laws. It must be a VA thing. My twin brother lives in Lynchburg doing nothing except taking care of his 6 year old son, a real task for 60 years old man who also doesn't follow the rules :-)