Transcript of August 2012 #BreadChat (from Twitter)
Earlier today Chicago Amateur Bread Bakers hosted the August 2012 #BreadChat on Twitter. New for 2012, #BreadChat is a Twitter discussion hour for bakers of yeasted, artisanal breads.
During #BreadChat, @AmateurBakers led the discussion through a handful of questions related to yeasted bread baking. During the August #BreadChat, we discussed how to tell when loaves are perfectly proofed. We kicked off #BreadChat with a question submitted in advance by @TheTinyBakery:
Q1: Is there a method to predict how long dough takes to proof based on yeast%, hydration%, loaf weight &/or temp? #BreadChat @TheTinyBakery
And then continued with more questions:
Q2: What are the signs/symptoms of a well-proofed loaf? An under-proofed loaf? An OVER-proofed one? #BreadChat
Q3: After baking, how does an under-proofed loaf look/taste? How does an OVER-proofed loaf look/taste? #BreadChat
Q4: When controlling proof temperature is possible, how to choose temp? E.g., sourdough at lower temp than panettone, but why? #BreadChat
We were delighted to welcome back Eric Duhamel (@EricFrenchBaker), Master Baker at Daylesford Organic, as co-host.
Below is the transcript of the chat. Please read from bottom to top, Twitter-style.
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ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker Goodnight, Eric! See you in September. #BreadChat
Dale Kefford @Daleakefford @EricFrenchBaker thank you was great, and managed to follow some new bakers #breadchat
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker Have all a good day, evening or night ! #Breadchat
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker Thanks to all for this chat ; always a pleasure ! #Breadchat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers Monitor the #BreadChat webpage for news about the next chat, coming in September:http://www.amateurbakers.org/p/breadchat.html
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers @MortalGreenWhim @EastcourtManor Bread is like the Proust's madeleines. It talks to your your memories, your soul. #Breadchat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @MortalGreenWhim Sonya, always a treat to have you with us!#BreadChat
Sonya Hundal @MortalGreenWhim @AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker thank you for #Breadchat
BreadChat @BreadChat If you're been listening in to #BreadChat, please say hello!
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers The official hour of #BreadChat has come to a close. Bread bakers, you're welcome to stay on as long as you like and continue the chat.
Sonya Hundal @MortalGreenWhim @EastcourtManor @ericfrenchbaker The chapati with spicy food, with butter & sugar, 2 together as paratha, deep fried... #Breadchat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker Thank you for co-hosting #BreadChat today!
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @EastcourtManor Thank you for participating in today's #BreadChat. Look for the transcript posted soon @thefreshloaf
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor @MortalGreenWhim @ericfrenchbaker #breadchat Chapati? Naan all the way http://eastcourtmanor.co.uk/naan-lesson-from-2006/
Sonya Hundal @MortalGreenWhim @AmateurBakers @ericfrenchbaker @eastcourtmanor They are amazing :) #Breadchat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @MortalGreenWhim @EricFrenchBaker @EastcourtManor Under pressure of such a question, childhood memory wins. Must be NYC bagels. #BreadChat
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor #breadchat time for me to go. It was fun although twitter struggled under the load!
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker @MortalGreenWhim I'm not a fancy breads person (even if I make some), I much prefer simple but well made breads. #Breadchat
Sonya Hundal @MortalGreenWhim @EastcourtManor @ericfrenchbaker Mmm sourdough or the very versatile chapati? Can't decide! #Breadchat
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor @EricFrenchBaker @MortalGreenWhim #breadchat spelt sourdough is a very special combination - sweet and nutty
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor @EricFrenchBaker @MortalGreenWhim #breadchat for me a simple sourdough or maybe just maybe that brioche recipe
Sonya Hundal @MortalGreenWhim @EricFrenchBaker Sounds wonderful :) #Breadchat
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor @cookingath0me #breadchat read Eric's tip about poking the dough or have a look at http://eastcourtmanor.co.uk/e-book/
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker @MortalGreenWhim It's a very difficult question. I would say a simple but very nice bread... my spelt sourdough. #Breadchat
BreadChat @BreadChat @cookingath0me Welcome to #BreadChat!
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @MortalGreenWhim @EricFrenchBaker Ai, what a question! Mind racing... bagels? Panettone? Finnish rye bread? #BreadChat
Mr.Brioche @J_Almandoz #Breadchat just read Dan Lepard's fav bread is a simple sourdough: wait till he shares that super recipe! :)
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom That was really interesting! Thanks to @EricFrenchBaker@BreadChat and @AmateurBakers for a great time discussing fermentation at #breadchat
Marie Catbagan @cookingath0me #breadchat how can you improve sourdough bread texture? Mine is too dense. Airy but not soft inside.
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor @johnnycabaret #breadchat slice with a knife and look inside
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @johnnycabaret Welcome to #BreadChat!
Sonya Hundal @MortalGreenWhim @EricFrenchBaker What bread would you choose if you could only eat one bread for the rest of your life? #Breadchat
Johnny Cabaret @johnnycabaret #Breadchat How do you know if a solid sourdough starter is active? There's no bubbles?
BreadChat @BreadChat Ideas for next month's #BreadChat? What would you like to chat about in September?
BreadChat @BreadChat It seems with today's #BreadChat we've found a challenging topic.
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker Are there some other questions ?#Breadchat
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor #breadchat very proud of my brioche recipe. using fridge is really essential (does it pass eric's scrutiny though?)http://eastcourtmanor.co.uk/a-brioche-recipe-which-really-works/
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor #breadchat eric of course right - lactic acid high temp and high hydr., acetic low temp and low hyd, yeast low temp and high hyd.
BreadChat @BreadChat Twitter had a hiccup but it's back nowhttp://downrightnow.com/twitter #BreadChat
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker @TheTinyBakery You don't need especially to decrease the yeast rate and increase the bulk proofing. It's a bit more complicated..#Breadchat
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom @EricFrenchBaker agree, meaning higher up until optimum yeast growth #breadchat
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker @PanarrasCom The best example is the French fine brioche. It needs a long time to ferment and develop nice flavour and texture.#Breadchat
Venetta Leyland @TheTinyBakery #BreadChat q4 - so to proove in fridge overnight, is it best to try reducing yeast levels & do longer 1st bulk ferment at ambient temp?
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers Also, if you've a blog/website on bread baking, tweet the URL to us & we'll link to it from http://amateurbakers.org #BreadChat
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor #breadchat Thanks Eric. I know there is a rye sourdough where you create three starters for yeast and the different acids...must try it
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers Last 10 minutes of #BreadChat, feel free to ask any questions you have.
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker @PanarrasCom Fat and high rate of sugar decrease the fermentation activity. So, it makes the time longer or temperature higher. #Breadchat
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom Q4: friendlier environment for yeast (lean doughs) allow for cooler temp, activity slows down -> structure & flavour develop bettr#breadchat
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker The acid level increases with the time but temperature changes its type. Usually, a warmer temp. helps producing lactic acid.#Breadchat
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom Q4: Hard environment, like enriched dough (fat&sugar), require temps closer to yeast optimum fermentation range e.g.28-30º#breadchat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @clairehaddon26 @bakerandhisWife Welcome to #BreadChat!
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor #breadchat with sourdough I think the acidic bacteria get much more active than the yeast at warmer temperatures. Need to check...
BreadChat @BreadChat RT @PanarrasCom Illustrative photo of an over-proofed loaf https://pic.twitter.com/b7spKZDG #BreadChat
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker After this basis principle, you can proof you loaf for longer at lower temp. #Breadchat
Claire Haddon @clairehaddon26 @bakerandhisWife hey guys do you take part in #breadchat?@EastcourtManor are always really interesting
Sonya Hundal @MortalGreenWhim @EricFrenchBaker Agree. I ferment sourdough at lower temp but proof slightly warmer. Other breads go in bakery cool spots.#Breadchat
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker Actually, a yeasted recipe can be proofed around 24 °c while a sourdough would be proofed at, at least, 4 degrees more.#Breadchat
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor #breadchat Q4 - sourdough is very flexible. enriched doughs or spicy breads the yeast needs warmth as the environment is hostile to growth
Venetta Leyland @TheTinyBakery #breadchat q4: is it something to do with the acid levels you want the yeast & fermentation to create?
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom #breadchat Here's an overproofed loaf: poorly opened scoring, flat overall appearance, sickly crust http://pic.twitter.com/VC4sSist
Artisan Foodworks @ArtisanF @AmateurBakers #BreadChat thank you, its great to read the tips and meet new friends
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker A sourdough is not always at lower temperature. This depends on the taste and the speed you want to get. #Breadchat
Stephanie Clubb @Edesiaskitchen #breadchat my twitter I think has stopped .
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker If the dough doesn't rise back, it's too late. #Breadchat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers Q4: When controlling proof temperature is possible, how to choose temp? E.g., sourdough at lower temp than panettone, but why?#BreadChat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers Time for question #4 #BreadChat
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker When you press with a finger, if the dough is frankly bumpy, it's under-proofed. If the dough rise back slowly, it's good. #Breadchat
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor #breadchat Do you think the best looking loaves are often a little under-proofed to get the best oven spring?
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @ArtisanF Welcome to #BreadChat!
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor #breadchat twitter seems a bit slow tonight!
Artisan Foodworks @ArtisanF @AmateurBakers #breadchat over proofing makes loaves collapse during or after baking and gives a messy looking crust and dense texture too!
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker The proofing is estimated by looking at the general aspect and touching the the loaf. #Breadchat
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker An over-proofed loaf can also collapse or get flat and the crumb can be doughy. #Breadchat
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom @EastcourtManor I agree... those bits and pieces can fool you by upholding the inner structure and giving an underproofed feel #breadchat
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker An over-proofed loaf would have a quite smooth crust, despite the scarifications which wouldn't rise properly. #Breadchat
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor #breadchat I do have an android app that covers the discussion last time https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=uk.co.eastcourtmanor.sourdough
Sonya Hundal @MortalGreenWhim @PanarrasCom if it looks like a balloon or blimp it is over-proved. In the oven the crust will lack caramelisation & be crispy #BreadChat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers Q3: After baking, how does an under-proofed loaf look/taste? How does an OVER-proofed loaf look/taste? #BreadChat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers Q2: What are the signs/symptoms of a well-proofed loaf? An under-proofed loaf? An OVER-proofed one? #BreadChat
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker An under-proofed loaf would be smaller than expected, a tighter structure and a cracked crust can be observed. #Breadchat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker We're discussing Q2 and Q3 simultaneously. Will retweet questions for our co-host.... #BreadChat
BreadChat @BreadChat @PanarrasCom Very interesting, exciting to learn something new today! #BreadChat
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor #breadchat poke test works well for #sourdough and plan loaves...enriched loaves its still useful but not good with nuts/fruit/olives
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom #breadchat to Q1: would say more factors involved: enzymatic activity, salt%, water... such a complex problem, empirical solutions R best
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @PanarrasCom @TheTinyBakery @EricFrenchBaker A multivariate predictive method for dough proofing, good bread scientist PhD topic#BreadChat
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom @AmateurBakers @TheTinyBakery @EricFrenchBaker the iPhone/android app would surely be welcomed :-PP #breadchat
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers Sorry, my connexion is slow and I missed the questions transition... ;-) #Breadchat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @Edesiaskitchen Today we're talking about proofing stage of bread baking. The final rise/fermentation before loaves go to oven#BreadChat
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom #breadchat to Q1: would say more factors involved: enzymatic activity, salt%, water... such a complex problem, empirical solutions R best
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @PanarrasCom @TheTinyBakery @EricFrenchBaker A multivariate predictive method for dough proofing, good bread scientist PhD topic#BreadChat
Sonya Hundal @MortalGreenWhim @AmateurBakers @panarrascom @thetinybakery @ericfrenchbakerwe'd spend so long calculating, the bread would be over-proved!#breadchat
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom @MortalGreenWhim @AmateurBakers @thetinybakery@ericfrenchbaker #breadchat that is correct!
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom #breadchat Q2: on a well-proven loaf, scoring will show a raw but defined crumb structure with distinct 'holes' that will stay for sometime
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @MortalGreenWhim @panarrascom @thetinybakery@ericfrenchbaker Ha ha haaa #BreadChat
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker Rather than giving indications on the proofing time depending on the formula, it's easier to give a clue about how to check it. #Breadchat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @EastcourtManor Does the poke test apply to all sorts of breads (highly enriched, wild yeast, etc)? #BreadChat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @EastcourtManor Those disaster loaves are so good for learning, unforgettable disappointments. #BreadChat
Stephanie Clubb @Edesiaskitchen @AmateurBakers @blackbirdbread @EastcourtManor@TheTinyBakery #breadchat Im a little lost. Ill just listen this time.
Sonya Hundal @MortalGreenWhim @AmateurBakers @panarrascom @thetinybakery @ericfrenchbakerwe'd spend so long calculating, the bread would be over-proved! #breadchat
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor #breadchat a great tip for loaves is to poke with your finger - the dough should be light and puffy just as it is fully proofed...
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @Emsbread Welcome to #BreadChat!
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @PanarrasCom @TheTinyBakery @EricFrenchBaker A multivariate predictive method for dough proofing, good bread scientist PhD topic #BreadChat
EmmanuelHadjiandreo @Emsbread Hello #Breadchat
Blackbird Bread @blackbirdbread @AmateurBakers Ok! #breadchat
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor #breadchat my memory is scarred by some chewy dense underproofed bread I have eaten in my time
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @blackbirdbread Be sure to mark all of your tweets with the hashtag #BreadChat, so everyone can hear you.
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker Then, when you have the experience of the recipe, you can estimate what's happening when you change a parameter. #Breadchat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @blackbirdbread #BreadChat questions we're discussing now are posted athttp://www.amateurbakers.org/p/breadchat.html
Venetta Leyland @TheTinyBakery q3: an over prooved loaf can collapse, loosing even crumb texture and therefore be very dense #BreadChat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @blackbirdbread Q1 was a toughie, so we've moved on to 2 and 3, to help answer 1 :-) #BreadChat
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker You need to do some tries and check the proofing of your recipe, noticing all the parameters.#Breadchat
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom #breadchat to Q1: would say more factors involved: enzymatic activity, salt%, water... such a complex problem, empirical solutions R best
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers Q3: After baking, how does an under-proofed loaf look/taste? How does an OVER-proofed loaf look/taste? #BreadChat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers Let's throw question #3 into the mix... as we can talk about it along with question #2 #BreadChat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @blackbirdbread Welcome to #BreadChat!
Blackbird Bread @blackbirdbread Hello #breadchat
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker @all_you_knead Indeed, even for the same recipe/formula, temperature and other climate variations affect the dough.#Breadchat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @all_you_knead Welcome to #BreadChat!
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @MortalGreenWhim @TheTinyBakery Sonya, that's it. Never before such silence in response to a #BreadChat question... must be on to something!
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor #breadchat q2 over-proof=collapsed texture at top of the loaf under-proof=too much ovenspring and dense loaf
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor #breadchat Q1 I've had great success with brioche and sourdough in the fridge overnight.
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker @TheTinyBakery From what I have experienced, it's difficult to over-proof refrigerated loaves. #BreadChat
Venetta Leyland @TheTinyBakery #BreadChat thank you @EricFrenchBaker - perhaps we will come to how to do this in question 4
All You Knead @all_you_knead @AmateurBakers @TheTinyBakery Hi, lots of factors, eg water temp, bakery temp, yeast used, etc, can vary to control proofing time#breadchat
Sonya Hundal @MortalGreenWhim @AmateurBakers @TheTinyBakery Was that stunned silence? This is the Holy Grail! Each element gets tweaked to control proofing#Breadchat
David Semple @ShakeySemple @TheTinyBakery #BreadChat I prove dough in the fridge overnight a lot I have also left it in there for 72hrs great results
BreadChat @BreadChat @Edesiaskitchen Welcome to #BreadChat!
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker @TheTinyBakery This is totally possible and used in good modern bakery ways to organise the production better. #Breadchat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers Q2: What are the signs/symptoms of a well-proofed loaf? An under-proofed loaf? An OVER-proofed one? #BreadChat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers Then let's move on to question #2, and maybe we learn something we can use... #BreadChat
BreadChat @BreadChat @Kerstinskitchen You're most welcome to listen! #BreadChat
Stephanie Clubb @Edesiaskitchen Hi there #breadchat . 1st timer here
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor #breadchat rules of thumb rather than a formula. Too many variables...dough temperature, air temperature, virility of the yeast, etc.
Venetta Leyland @TheTinyBakery #BreadChat - I am trying to understand if there is a formula so that I can do overnight proove in the fridge ready for early morning bakes
BreadChat @BreadChat @EricFrenchBaker Q1: As a home baker, I have learned through trial-and-error to trust my senses about proofing. #BreadChat
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker Usually, some tries are necessary to determine the proofing time. So much elements are part of the process. #Breadchat
Kerstin Losch @Kerstinskitchen Hi #breadchat sadly only listening today! @AmateurBakers@TheTinyBakery
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker This question is a very tricky one... It's very difficult to give a benchmark for prooving time.#Breadchat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers Q1: Is there a method to predict how long dough takes to proof based on yeast%, hydration%, loaf weight &/or temp? #BreadChat@TheTinyBakery
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers We'll kick off #BreadChat with a question #1, submitted in advance by @TheTinyBakery.
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @NCDarby76 Welcome to #BreadChat!
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @PanarrasCom Welcome to #BreadChat! (Would love to learn more about your group, may we chat after #BreadChat?) Now for our first question...
Neil Darby @NCDarby76 #breadchat hello
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom #breadchat good evening from Barcelona, we're a bunch of home bakers, avid for #greatbread
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers Today we're going to be asking questions about how to tell when loaves are perfectly proofed--and ready for the oven. #BreadChat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers And a big welcome to our #BreadChat co-host, @EricFrenchBaker
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @Daleakefford Welcome to #BreadChat!
BreadChat @BreadChat Be sure to mark all of your tweets with the hashtag #BreadChat, so we can hear you.
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers Lovely to have a strong contingent of UK baking minds and hands with us today on #BreadChat
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker Good evening ! Just arrived in time for #Breadchat
Dale Kefford @Daleakefford Good evening #breadchat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @TTSoldierBaker Welcome to #BreadChat!
Dale Kefford @Daleakefford @CrossEyedPiano #breadchat. Now till 9pm on twitter if your interested
Jim Bishop @TTSoldierBaker @AmateurBakers Hey #breadchat looking in from Lincoln UK.
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @TheTinyBakery Welcome to #BreadChat! Venetta, we'll start with your question in a few minutes.
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor #breadchat Hello everyone we are based in Kent, England
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @ShakeySemple Welcome to #BreadChat!
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor #breadchat 5...4...3...2...1..
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker How's your internet connection today?#BreadChat
Venetta Leyland @TheTinyBakery Hi there #BreadChat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers When you join the chat, please say hello and tell us where you're from. (Please say hello even if you'd prefer to listen in :-) #BreadChat
Sonya Hundal @MortalGreenWhim @AmateurBakers @ericfrenchbaker Hello! #BreadChat
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @MortalGreenWhim @EricFrenchbaker Welcome to #BreadChat!
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers @EastcourtManor Welcome to #BreadChat!
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers Hello and welcome to #BreadChat. Today celebrating 7 months of bread-baking curiosity and problem solving!
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor #breadchat - talk about #realbread on twitter from 8pm-9pm tonight
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers #BreadChat in 5!
Sonya Hundal @MortalGreenWhim #BreadChat about to start on Twitter. Hosted by @EricFrenchbakerand @amateurbakers 8pm-9pm. You can ask...http://fb.me/1VcBQ7Ai2
