February 23, 2012 - 12:22pm
COLLAPSING PROOF WHEN SLASHED??! WHY?
Hi All,
This week, made both Reinharts Classic French Bread(ABED) and a multi-seed loaf recipe for a pan and at the end of the final proof / rise period, had wonderful swelling and growth. However, when I slashed for good bloom in the oven, bread deflated and never recovered to its original promising shape. What's wrong? Have I over-proofed?I live in a very high altitude city. (5751ft above sea level - Johannesburg South Africa.)
Please help :-(
Paul Z
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I am sure some folks with professional advice will help you out, but your suggestion, over proofing, sounds right on to me. It has happened, makes me crazy after having spent the time to make a beautiful loaf, and , THUD, down it goes. what is your standard for "ready to bake"?? Do you take temp of bread, rely on the finger punch method or what?
Thanks PhilipG,
I do the standard "finger poke" test - slight indent which recovers about 75% of its shape. Also, having a pastry training background, I follow recipe times and quantities to the absolute letter so cannot understand the overproof.
PZ
As suggested by PhilipG over-proofing may have been a problem.
I would suggest a few other possible contributing factors...
> Shaping prior to the final rise. Shaping of the dough prior to the final rise is the art/skill of preserving gas bubbles yet giving sufficient surface strength to contain this during the final rise and subsequent bake. The solution? Practice, practice, practice.
> Sharpness of your slashing instrument. Dull lames (or whatever you use) can deflate the dough prior to baking. Did you have drag marks when slashing? Did you see the risen dough noticeably deflate after slashing? Slashing is also an art/skill and the solution is practice, practice practice.
> Too low an inital oven temperature for baking. A little hard to diagnose here, since (if I read your post correctly) you experienced this with a baguette (high oven initial temperature required) as well as a pan bread (moderate initial oven temperature required). I will leave it to others to explore this possible cause in more detail.
====================Can't speak to how how altitude baking affects your bread baking. Only know that those who bake at high altitudes need to make adjustments. Perhaps other high-altitude bakers could chime in here.Thanks for the postulations...
It's such a fine balance when slashing / docking. Slash too lightly and it's unnoticeable after the bake off. Slash to deeply and poof - the gas bubbles are gone and like a deflated balloon, it's a sad sight after 3 days of work and wait.
Tried using a Stanley knife to slash, A Stanley blade on its own, used a serrated bread knife. It does pull the dough rather than effortlessly cutting through smoothly and cleanly with a gliding move.
I have a deck oven which reaches the correct temperature so I don't think this is too much of a prolem.
Thanks ever so much
I can say that the altitude isn't that big a factor for baking bread. From your description, I'd say that over-proofing was definitely the culprit. What do you do, other than visual observation, to determine how much or how little the dough has proofed?
Paul
Thanks Paul for coming in here. As a previous Highveld resident, at least we can compare like with like now :-)
My test for proofing, as in my previous post, is to finger poke the dough surface and watch the response. If it(the indent) returns to 75 - 80% of its former shape, then I take that as a go-ahead for the bake. Sometimes, it even deflates at this stage. (Maybe I am poking too hard or too deeply?)
I thought a correctly heated or even hotter than required deck oven would help, reasoning that the direct sole heat would help the oven spring, but this doesn't happen. Still comes out rather flattish. Maybe I should take "before and after" pics at my next bake.
Paul
"Poke" could have different meanings, couldn't it? In the case of the finger poke test, we aren't talking about a sharp jab; rather, gently pushing the fingertip into the dough about as deep as the first knuckle and then withdrawing.
If the dough rebounds immediately, allow to continue fermenting.
If the dough fills much, not necessarily all, of the indentation within 2-3 seconds, bake it. What you describe as a 75-80% rebound would be typical.
If the dough does not rebound at all, or fills less than half the depression, or (worst of all) falls flat, the dough is somewhere in the range be tween over-proofed and seriously over-proofed. You have several options at this point. One, bake it anyway and hope for the best while expecting the worst. Two, save the dough and use it as pate fermentee, or old dough, in another batch. Three, briefly knead and then reshape the dough into loaves, allow to ferment, and bake when optimally proofed. The bread may turn out well in terms of flavor and texture but may not brown very well since the yeasts will have consumed so much of the readily available food in the dough. Four, bin it.
Since gauging the amount of proofing can be so challenging, some bakers recommend pinching off a small ball of dough before the remainder is shaped into loaves. This ball can be placed in water that has the same temperature as the ambient temperature surrounding the shaped loaves; when it floats, the loaves will be adequately proofed for baking. (Disclaimer: I have never tried this technique, so can't offer personal observations about its efficacy.) Or, the ball can be placed in a container where its growth can be easily observed and measured; i.e., something transparent with vertical sides. When doubled in height, it will be doubled in volume. You may be surprised at how small your loaves look when they have doubled in volume, rather than having doubled in all dimensions.
Yes, a deck at the proper (or even higher) temperature will aid in maximizing oven spring. The problem with over-proofed dough is that the gluten network has been stretched past the point of breakdown, allowing the gas to escape from the bubbles. Heat can't overcome the effects of the leakage. Hence the option of rekneading and reshaping the dough as an attempt to salvage it.
Paul
Thanks, this is just what I needed to know
just to burst in here and quote him a little bit... :)
Thanks Mini Oven.
I concur that there may be a clue in higher temps. PR in ABED suggests temps as high as 550F but I really worry that I'll burn the base of the bread with the crumb interior half baked. Will try cutting back on the leavening time.
Paul
less leavening? I was under the impression it meant less yeast in the recipe.