Further Abroad Borodinsky Rye + Sweet Rye Crispbreads
As the holiday season rapidly approaches I decided to squeeze in what’s likely to be my last ‘real’ rye bake of the year before concentrating on the light and sweet Christmas goodies.
Andy’s fascinating and instructive posts on Borodinsky, Auerman Formulas and other high rye breads have kept me fascinated and entertained while perched in a bus to and fro from work. At first I found the list of ingredients overwhelming and that was before even fully digesting the multi-stage processes … I was going to have to be present and pay attention, plus top it off with a little planning. This was even more apparent with the amount of time needed to translate this formula to the blog …
I settled upon Andy’s Borodinsky – The Auerman Formula [or thereabouts anyway] but tweaked it slightly … um … quite a bit - sorry Andy :)
Altus and coriander (I love to chew on the altus crusts)
The dark ryes I have baked up until now have been a one stage process with a rye sour built and fermented before being added to the final ingredients. This formula is a tad more involved and uses a three stage process. A rye sour is built and fermented. With the sour fermenting, a scald of boiling water, flour, and other ingredients is produced. The sour and scald are then combined into a sponge which is fermented further until it is mixed with the remaining ingredients for the final shaping, proving and baking.
I deviated/strayed from Andy’s formula in a few ways. Firstly I have altus which I planned on adding to both the sour build and scald. Instead of the red malt asked for in the formula I used roasted rye malt that I had produced earlier in the week. It is richly coloured flour with a bright sweet roasted flavour and was bound to add some flavour to the finished loaf.
I kept the overall hydration level the same, but altered the hydration of the sour and scald builds to allow for a small amount of water to autolyse the wheat flour used in the final paste. This is a tip I received from minioven that allows the gluten in the wheat flour to develop before being mixed into the final paste. Finally, I sifted the final addition of rye and wheat flour.
Roasted Rye Malt
Scald and sponge
Further abroad Borodinsky
Overview | Weight | % of flour |
Total flour | 1405g | 100% |
Total water | 1195g | 85% |
Prefermented flour | 702g (30% +20%) | 50% |
Desired dough temperature 25°C |
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1. Sour build – 18 hrs 24°C |
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Starter (Not used in final dough) | 21g | 1.4% |
Fresh milled rye flour | 421g | 30% |
Altus (100% rye sourdough) | 50g | 3.5% |
Water | 492g | 35% |
Total | 963g |
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2. Scald |
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Coarsely milled rye | 281g | 20% |
Roasted rye malt | 70g | 5% |
Blackstrap molasses | 84g | 6% |
Altus (100% rye sourdough) | 50g | 3.5% |
Freshly ground coriander seed | 14g | 1% |
Water | 492g | 35% |
Salt | 21g | 1.5% |
Total | 1012g |
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3. Sponge – four hours @ 25°C |
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Sour from (1.) | 963g | 68% |
Scald from (2.) | 1012g | 72% |
Total | 1975g |
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4. Final paste – one hour @ 25°C |
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Sponge | 1975g | 140% |
Fresh milled rye flour sifted | 423g | 30% |
Fresh milled wheat flour sifted | 210g | 15% |
Water | 210g | 15% |
Total | 2818g |
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Method
- 4:00pm day before, prepare the rye sour.
- 10:00pm day before, prepare the scald. Grind coriander seeds and combine with remaining dry ingredients. Measure the molasses into a saucepan cover with boiling water and bring to a rolling boil. Quickly stir in the dry ingredients with a wooden spoon and remove from heat and cool. Weigh scald and add further boiling water if necessary to account for evaporation.
- 9:00am following day, combine and mix the sour and scald and ferment a further four hours.
- 12:00pm combine sifted wheat and final water together and mix thoroughly with wooden spoon or whisk and allow to autolyse for one hour.
- 1:00pm add autolyse dough, remaining portion of sifted rye flour to the sponge and form the final paste.
- Shape and place into greased tins (mine were 8 x 4 x 4 Pullman) seam side down.
- I proved these for one hour before docking and placing into oven with lids on for 15 minutes at 270°C then a further hour at 210°C
The final paste felt drier than the dark ryes I have baked recently – perhaps the molasses or malt flour? It was still a paste but felt it lot easier to handle. I as a little worried that the rye flour was absorbing too much water which may be a sign of excessive starch damage …
As seems to be the case with the rye breads I bake using freshly milled flours the final proof was exceptionally quick. I am hesitant to take my eyes from these breads during their final rise … the first sign of readiness and its straight into the oven … I don’t even debate myself anymore.
When pulled from the oven the bread felt soft and springy to the touch … the crust a dark brown with red hues. After cooling they were wrapped in a tea towel before storage in a plastic bag for a day … with me looking on longingly – all the time fingers crossed. I still lack confidence in my rye baking …
Finally I could slice – it was a cinch with a crust that was soft and smooth. The crumb was still moist but that will decrease over the coming days. A slice could be folded in half without breaking … did I mention it was soft?
The flavour is bright and I can pick the brightness of the coriander and tartness of the molasses. On the first day the molasses seemed stronger but by the next it had equalled out to rich round flavour. Most of all I am struck by the gentle mouth feel. It does not feel like a heavy rye bread and I look forward to the flavour developing throughout the week.
I also started playing with a rye crsipbread based on the formula in Dan Lepard’s Handmade Loaf. I omitted the commercial yeast and added some flavours inspired by his sweet rye formula – honey, ground cardomann seed, aniseed, and lemon zest. They are crunchy on the edges with a chew towards the centre. I love this combination of flavours …
All the best and best holiday wishes,
Phil
Comments
Wow! What a glorious way to end wholegrain baking in favor of season delights..! Phil, those are wonderful looking bordonsky! lovely to behold.
I have to gather some nerve and start baking a dark multi stage rye someday. you inspire me.
I'll have to admit, i was raised on fluffy white bread, pita in particular, but wholegrain wheat breads is where my true passion lies. I'am new to Rye, as my first encounter with a rye bread was a so called" Norwich Bread" from Spinneyes bakery. Since then, i've come to appreciate sour breads.. and only recently when i joined TFL, that i became aware of sourdough bread, and Rye.
I'am evolving slowly, and so are my family members "family testers".
Thanks to you, andy , minioven , and all Rye die hards!
Great to hear from you Khalid,
Hope you are doing well ...
These rye breads are the complete opposite of whats being sold in the shops at the moment. Buck the trend I say :)
Like you I grew up on "fluffy" bread from supermarkets. In the small town I grew up in, local bakeries were not really existent or slowly fading away. Luckily my parents had a preference for wholemeal and seeded breads ... white bread was a very rare treat for us. Rye bread was (and to some extent still is) completely unheard of. I find it hard work trying to influence the taste-buds of younger generations .... so much peer pressure and advertising influence ... I hope that I will succeed without them even noticing :)
Cheers,
Phil
fantastic bread! Even the crisps! Now rye doesn't seem to have anymore secrets for you.
Your dough came out stiffer because the zavarka drinks a lot of water and gives more cohesion to the blob.
Thanks nicodvb,
That means so much coming from you ...
I have quite a while to go before I fully understand rye and feel confident in what I bake. This bake was moral boosting though ... and it tastes better and better each day. I am quite surprised by the crumb. I had thought it may have been a bit dry with how the paste had felt, but I think it's the nicest crumb I have achieved yet.
That makes sense to me about the zavarka (scald) and now I think I may have heard that before.
Cheers,
Phil
"The final paste felt drier than the dark ryes I have baked recently..."
Especially after fighting with sticky rye doughs for a while. That is actually what got me more interested in the scalding and the fact that it shows up so often in traditional rye baking all over Europe. A great tool to tame rampant enzymes as well. I do believe there is a ceiling (%) how much one can scald before it actually encourages a gummy crumb.
The loaves! Oh my! Perfect! The flour stayed light, roasting about the edges contrasting beautifully with the crust's snap crack fissures. Photography? Son of a gun!
I'm exploring crackers as well. Thanks for the lovely shove into that direction (and loyds blogging using ripe starter.) I would love to see a broken cracker; crisp bread "crumb shot." Please, pretty please! I am most interested in the air pockets inside.
Mini Oven
So happy you approve Mini,
A present for you ...
... the crispbreads still need some work until I am totally happy with them ... they a quite toothy, but oh so delicious. Have you ever made Dan Lepard's "Sweet Rye"? I love the flavour combinations used in it.
I am going to experiment some more with the scading method ... worked a treat!
Cheers,
Phil
Oooo! Yep, got my rye gears churning...
Goodmorning Phil
As always, stunning post and bread. What lovely bowls.
I am wondering what you used to dock your crispbreads? I've thought of asking Santa to put one of the rolling type in my stocking (haven't seen them here but surely Santa will know a Northern European source)...... fork pricks just don't have the same impact.
Seasons Greetings, Robyn
Thanks Robyn,
I have a set of cheap bamboo chopsticks ... They are my favourite multi-purpose tool :) I use them for mixing levain builds and when first incorporating flour with water before I use a dough scraper.
... and in this case I used the thick end to dock the crispbreads. I was doing some research on rye crispbreads and saw these ..
Ha, ha ... Santa uses amazon.com nowadays doesn't he?
Cheers,
Phil
I say I can't cook with out them. Having spent so long in Japan, they are like extensions to my fingers and I have all sorts. I use table size ones to mix starter, but longer sturdier ones to mix dough and don't know why I didn't think of using them for the docking. Actually I wondered if you'd used a round toothpick!
I got out my 'Handmade Bread/ Loaf" out and see Dan suggests the end of a pencil or wooden spoon, yours is a much better idea, thank you. My rye crispbreads are a riff on something I saw Jamie Oliver do in Sweden (1'42" onwards), similar to that in the 'Handmade Loaf'.
Cheers, Robyn
Phil,
Like you I have been hesitant with loaves containing a lot of rye but I have some huge rye fans that I bake for and so I finally took the plunge awhile ago with Hanseata's Friesian Rye:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/18037/friesisches-schwarzbrot-friesian-rye
and it received rave reviews and was a cinch to put together....amazingly easy in fact so now I feel comfortable trying another one and I like this variation on Andy's formula so it will be up next....but....
Like you - the holiday goodies are taking up time from the more wholesome lean doughs.....today Stollen, yesterday Panettone - last week Julekage.....fruit, fat and sugar galore.....and that doesn't include the chocolate biscotti, eggnog cookies and chocolate chip cookies that have been crowding my oven....
Thanks for the post and the photos and the inspiration to 'go for it' :-)
Take Care,
Janet
Hi Janet,
Rye is a funny thing ... completely the opposite of a well kneaded wheat dough isn't it. Its been a head-shift. Oh, but taste cannot be compared! I have had a look at the friesian rye before ... love the idea of the seeds in it. A favourite of ours is the kornbread from Maggie Glezers Artisan baking.
Your kitchen sounds very busy (and delicious) ... We have such a hectic week here that I am not even going to get back into the kitchen until Saturday ... that is my designated bake day. Cutting it fine!
Yep, no better way to learn and experience these things other than to dive on in ...
I hope you have a great Christmas and thanks for all the kind words.
Cheers,
Phil
Phil,
Well, I did it!
And like you I tweaked it a bit to fit into my time schedule. I also added a bit more water to the scald as mine was very dry with just the amount you had posted. Altus was a mix of rye and ww breads.
I gave the loaf to my neighbor who loves rye and critiques most of my bakes. She LOVED this loaf. I am thinking it was the malted grains...I used barley....She couldn't pin point what exactly she liked about it but seems like it was the flavor.
She loved the docking - I used a chop stick after your suggestion - never would have thought of it on my own and have simply used toothpicks in the past. The chop stick makes a much better hole.
Yes, ryes are different but really almost easier than wheats because there is no kneading or windowpane to develop....just mix up the ingredients and let it do it's thing. Almost like feeding leavens.
Now I have another rye to add to my 'collection' of go to bakes :-)
Thanks for the inspiration....I will see if I can repeat the results next week when another rye fan/friend will be here for a loaf.
Take Care,
Janet
Thats so great Janet,
I think next time I will alter the amount of water used in the scald ... I found it a touch dry as well.
We have been away on holidays and yesterday returned home. I pulled out the 2nd borodinsky loaf out of the freezer last night. Had two slices for breakfast today... sigh, so nice to be home.
Happy your friend liked it ... though Andy should take the credit for introducing us to such a great bread :)
Cheers,
Phil
Hi Phil,
I agree about credit to Andy....will have to bounce over to his blog and give him a heads up....yours was the most recent so that is what my mind recalled...thanks for the reminder!
I was reading about another loaf in Dan Leopard's book where he uses a scald. The ratio was 100g flour: 400g boiling water....I am not sure how much water I added because the pot was on the stove and I didn't want to weight it...lazy...I just poured so that it was a bit looser but not as loose as the mashes I am used to making using PR's proportions...
The roasted malt was a barley mixture that I heated in the oven. I was afraid I had burned it as it came out pretty dark and strong smelling....guess it was okay - but I also know my neighbor LOVES burned bread :-)
Yes, I know how nice it is to return home and the comforts it provides. How did the loaf survive in the freezer?
Take Care,
Janet
Hi Janet,
I roasted some malt barley a little longer than the rest and it got to the point where I didn't care for the aroma. I love the colour of the flour it produces though... and the flour smelt different again. A really interesting process.
I usually freeze one of the rye loaves and leave the other on the bench. I defrosted in a tea-towel and plastic bag. It comes back really nicely ... a tad dryer but still quite moist and lovely to eat. Breakfast again today :)
Cheers,
Phil
Phil,
Good to know about the freezing. I will have to let people know.
Since I have started baking so regularly my kids will not eat frozen bread anymore.....they are bread snobs now and will only eat FRESH *^)
Janet
Phil, your breads are really amazing. You must be very proud. I'm still at 70-80% rye percent, and I'm afraid to go further. But when I see what progress you have made in rye breads lately, I get a strong impulse and confidence that I can do the same. I have to study your formula, and Andy's, of course, and prepare myself for a true adventure. 100% rye breads are out of my comfort zone (but this is not quite 100% rye, is it?).
ps. I'm sorry I've been a lurker lately. I followed all your posts, with evident pleasure and interest, but I did not left a visible sign. That is a good one for New Year's Resolution: comment more often on TFL posts.
Best wishes, Codruta
Good to hear from you Codruta and thanks for nice comments :)
I am slowly working my way back to 100% ryes ... this one was 85%. I am still a little "damaged" from my past disasters ... I am still using those loaves as altus ... when they are used up I will attempt again.
Thats OK, I have been lurking on your Romanian blog as well :) ... It's certainly a busy time of the year ... no time for typing!
Best wishes for the holiday season
Phil
Hi Phil,
Your usual method of preparing the sour, then making the final paste is a 2 stage process. The preparation of the sponge is classed as the second stage, with soaker and sour being parts of the first stage. Stage 3 is the final paste. It relates to the stages in the fermentation process. anyway, a small thing indeed!
Fantastic Borodinsky bread, and I am so happy you took such enthusiastic inspiration from my rye posts. Your variation I am sure do nothing but improve the bread; I very much approve. Using a roasted rye malt is authentically Russian, I am reliably informed. I used Barley because it was readily available in powdered form. I managed to source whole crystal rye malt, but I had to take 25kg, and would have had to crush and grind it myself....I remain jealous of your mill here!
Holding back some water for the final paste to aid gluten development is a really good trick. Here I have difficulty as a creature of habit who makes liquid rye sours. I would have to move to a stiffer sour to go down this route; but it's one I must follow soon! I don't want to increase the hydration overall either. I've seen great rye breads made close to 100% hydration by others, but I've had nothing but gummy/raw disasters when I've tried to bake out bread with so much water in the formula.
Beautiful; and thank you too for posting on the rye crispbreads; it is always good to see Dan Lepard's Handmade Loaf recipes being showcased. They look so inviting.
All good wishes
Andy
That's funny ... I was typing out the blog and it occurred to me that I had no idea what the actual "stages" were ... just knew there were three of them :)
I am enjoying this rye the most out of all I have made so far ... the crumb and crust is just a delight and the flavour seems to be smoother each day.
For me, the rye malt was the nicest to smell and taste out of the wheat, barley and rye malts. I had done quite a bit of reading on malting rye and was quite vigilant on keeping the grains clean and fresh ... I wish the temps were a little cooler as they sprouted really quickly. Next time I will roast them in batches and see how the flavour changes as I roast for longer.
I am finding the rye I mill ferments so fast that I prefer keeping the sours a little stiffer - around 110-125% hydration at room temps (before I was mixing them at warmer temps) I was a bit undecided whether to hold back some water for final paste or not ... but it works so well that I think I am a convert now!
Dan's book is a favourite of mine ... a bread book for grown-ups. I find it very mature and forward thinking ... He is trying to build a connection between the end product and where the ingredients come from. I like that.
Great to hear from you ... how did your panettone bake go?
Phil
Mary, or Masha?
Hi! Wonderful job on a very smooth Rye surface with no cracks!
Phil, can you explain, please, what is "altus (100% rye sourdough)". Is rye sourdough fed with altus? or...? I'll prepare the ingredients tomorrow and I just printed your formula and andy's when I realised I have no idea what altus (100% rye sourdough) is! :(
thanx, codruta
UPDATE: ok, I didn't read carefully before. I omited the line: "starter (not used in final dough)" and I interpreted... well.. never mind, too hard for me to explain it anyway. Everything is clear now, I'll proceed tomorrow with the formula. I'll keep you posted.
codruta