The Fresh Loaf

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seeded multigrain sourdough

nzsourdoughman's picture
nzsourdoughman

seeded multigrain sourdough

I am still new on bread making - 4th week in now. And I am learning more and more. I thought I would give the seeded multigrain sourdough a try from wild yeast blog. I subbed in pumpkin sesame sun flour poppy and flaxseeds in the soaker. I also subbed the course rye for fine rye. The mixture was pretty wet... it was sticking to my bench and hands.
But I have learnt to not alter the hydration and go crazy with flour. I kneaded it for two 3min intervals with a min break in-between.  I added the soaker and it went a bit wetter and had to scrape it into my bowl. From my understanding if its higher hydration and not well formed you give it more stretch and folds.
My dough was showing 68F which is pretty low temp for fermentation - she recommends 75. In peter rein harts book he says every 17F doubles the fermentation time. So that’s about 3mins every Degree... so I gave it about 1.25hr for each fold instead of 50min - or until I saw the dough was looking bigger in volume and loose. After two s&f it was still wet but had some shape. I upturned shaped, benched for 20, then degassing...
I'm a little unsure if you should degas a multigrain loaf since you might want to be keeping as much c02 in the dough as you can get since the seeds might make it harder for the dough? Then the question would you degas in preshaping like kingarther says to? or be as gentle as you can like hertz?

I shaped my dough into batards and let them rise for 2.5-3hrs until they barely sprung back with a indent. Does anyone have a video of testing a dough?
I need something to compare my testing to since I’m unsure if I am over proofing my dough’s?

Then when I go to slash the top I always make a mince job, My dough seams to be too gluggy. It rises well and upturns well, but always slashes real badly. I can never slash in one swoop, always takes a couple and it always catches the dough. In my cuts I get good rises but never an ear in my dough like other tflers... I really want to be able to create good-looking ears! What’s the trick to cutting gluggy dough?

Any tips to why my loafs are not rising or puffing up like other recipes? Or is this as high as I can expect to get a multigrain loaf? So far i belive it can be overkneading, overhydrated or overprooved. I'll upload some pics. I really want to make this loaf my trademark bread so any input would be much appreciated! Maybe I can make a video of me making it so you have a idea of what my process is like?

Cheers

Mark


Mondays first try... Not a nice rise

 

Tuesdays... I thought maybe i wouldn't degas the one on the right as much as the one on the left... it gave it more shape outwards (that i realy like) and an ear (that i realy like) but a big sagging bottom (really want to fix).

 

Wensdays Bake... shaped... scored...baked.

Comments

Floydm's picture
Floydm

Really nice looking loaves, Mark.

RobynNZ's picture
RobynNZ

Hi Mark

I second Floyd! I can't imagine how big you want to get those loaves......  good ice cream does have air in it, but airpumped soft freeze is just a way of making money, leaving the consumer much less satisfied! The crumb particularly in the Monday loaf looks wonderful for a seeded multigrain, looks like you proofed it pretty well to full proof, so not much omph left for oven spring. Do look at the substance, not just the holes!  This kind of loaf is probably my favourite - I enjoy ringing the changes with different seeds & grains, flakes, kibbled etc etc. (how many favourites are we allowed??)

I left a note on your previous post regarding the bottom of the loaf, its likely the same thoughts apply to Tuesday's loaf, more a matter of handling during shaping rather than a matter of fermentation. When you look at the photo of the loaves on your couche what do you see?

One more sleep! Go Black.

Cheers, Robyn

nzsourdoughman's picture
nzsourdoughman

Thanks Robyn.

Thanks to the answers I’m getting your making my bread making knowledge grow ten times faster :) Thanks.

I thought that I might get some extra spring than I have but I’m happy with the holes... and the taste!

I have another 2 on at the moment... today is sunflower, sesame, pumpkin (love the pumpkin seeds), flax and quinoa. I have made a little video of each step so I can show you my technique. I would love some feedback!

I saw your post, thanks. Yes I am trying my best to keep off the flour, but my seam keeps sticking and pulling on the bench when I go to give more surface tension. Then I try to create more tension by pushing and pulling bottom gently but I get that seam that you have spotted!

Hope your all ok up north with the ferry troubles I heard of!

I'm going for Japan! ha-ha underdogs!

Mark

RobynNZ's picture
RobynNZ

Yeah, another Japan supporter. I was invited to go to the museum yesterday to help interpret for the team while they had a quick tour. I lived in Japan for a long time and loved rugby there, very fast and skillful. I've put my name down for them to be the surprise quarter finalists of the tournament. So it was pretty cool to get to meet them all.

Just remember iron hands, velvet gloves. You can have some flour on that outer layer to assist, just avoid it around the seam area. But we are talking aesthetics here, the bread looks delicious.

Cheers, Robyn

RobynNZ's picture
RobynNZ

Whew! 

Tried to get on the site last night but seems it was down. Just back from parade, your turn down there tomorrow.

How's the bread baking going, Mark?

Cheers, Robyn

varda's picture
varda

I love the look of your pointed batards.   Only 4 weeks of baking bread?    What great work.  -Varda

nzsourdoughman's picture
nzsourdoughman

Thanks varda!

Now if i can only get those big ears forming ontop i'll be a happy man!

Mark

breadsong's picture
breadsong

Hello Mark,
Your multigrain bread looks delicious.
I saw your comment to Varda above, and was reminded of this helpful scoring tutorial, provided by dmsnyder:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10121/bread-scoring-tutorial-updated-122009
:^) from breadsong

nzsourdoughman's picture
nzsourdoughman

Robyn:
Thanks heaps, wow the Japanese team! Are the forwards as big as sumo's? and backs as small as ninjas?
I'll post that video to try and get some feedback on shaping. Its just that my velvet glove doesn't want to be velvet.

I know they taste good, but i realy want to get some ears like this bloger managed to do in the last pic on his page...

http://eminthekitchen.wordpress.com/2011/02/08/seeded-sourdough/

Yep i'm a perfectionist... dont catch it

 edit: haha i think i know why i'm not getting oven spring... I am using a %100 rye starter with my seeded loaves and fine rye for the course. I am reserving my wholewheat starter for making a boule each day for my little brother.

That would mean a rye content of 31%. And in other blogs on tfl on rye flour it says to stay under 15% for sourdough free standing loaves.

Do you think switching to a wholewheat starter would make a difference, or does wholewheat have the same effect and is best to stay under 15% aswell?

 

Breadsong:
Thanks heaps, i saw this post on scoring and thanks for reminding me, i gave it a read and will be slashing with more of an angle now to hopefully get more of a ear. I also know that i have seen another blog on scoring batards/baguettes. I dont know if it was on the tfl website though and i cant find it again.

Here is wendsdays crumb. I baked another 2 loaves of multiseed yesterday with 207 instead of 227g water. It was a little easier to work with, but didn't rise up as much as the fully hydrated loaf, I'll post some pics soon of thursdays loaves. Could having a higher hydration promote a greater ovenspring? I would have thought the opposite.

and my seeding barley (almost there). Does anyone know if barly makes much difference to a loaf?...