Vermont Sourdough with Banana Yeast Water
Yeast water Vermont Sourdough with peony...
After being pushed over the edge by Akiko's magnificent baguette, the desire to ferment just became too strong. So over the last few days I've been making banana yeast water. I followed Akiko's instructions in her blog post which also refers to a very detailed and helpful web page. I replaced raisins with sliced bananas but otherwise followed instructions. This means that I started with banana and water only rather than weaning my flour based levain to fruit as I have seen others write about. After 5 days it seemed that the yeast water was ready. I strained out the water, took half of it, added flour, left it overnight on the counter and baked with it the next morning. The results were tasty but not quite ready for prime time. Meanwhile I fed the yeast water with another banana and water as per Akiko's instructions and this morning was ready to try again. I decided to bake Hamelman's Vermont Sourdough partly because it's good and Codruta reminded me of it, and partly to have a well recognized formula to experiment with. Further I baked two loaves - one with a banana yeast water levain and the other with my regular levain. Since these were different hydrations the only difference in the two doughs was how much water I added to the final dough. All of the percentages matched Hamelman's instructions. While preparing both doughs, I noticed that the yeast water version was always more manageable and with a more silky texture. Really though, there was very little difference between the two doughs. However during final proof it became clear that the one with regular levain was fermenting much more rapidly. In fact so quickly that the oven wasn't entirely ready for it when I put it in. Unfortunately this caused me to stumble technically. The loaf bottom split in the oven and so the whole loaf came out misshapen. I am almost sure this was due to the fact the oven wasn't steamed properly and also possibly the stone wasn't sufficiently preheated. Oh well. I waited until the first loaf was done (and the oven resteamed) before putting in the yeast water loaf. This had definitely needed the extra 55 minutes of proofing and did much better in the oven. As for taste, what can I say - they are both tasty breads, but the regular levain sourdough has a tiny bit of sour tang which is quite delicious, where the yeast water loaf is a bit flat. Also if you look at the crumb shots below, even with the poor misshapen loaf, the regular levain wins the competition. So maybe I simply chose the wrong formula to test out my yeast water on and picked one that is more appropriate for a regular levain. I will probably try, try again, and I simply love the fact that I can take a piece of fruit, doctor it for a few days, and end up with something that very competently raises bread.
Yeast water Vermont Sourdough crumb...
Vermont Sourdough with standard levain crumb...
Comments
Hi Varda,
I think you've just provided your own supreme evidence of what a translucent crumb is with that last photo!
Best wishes
Andy
Andy, You are so kind. Thanks for your comment. -Varda
Varda, if you read my post on using bananas as a banana sourdough,
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20460/banana-saga-%E9%95%B7%E7%AF%87%E6%95%85%E4%BA%8B
or Shiao-Ping's post using bananas
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/14432/banana-pain-au-levain
You will see that banana and flour have much trouble getting 'used' to each other.
If you intend to continue trying Yeast Water, I would strongly recommend using something that others have had success with, rather than one that has been noted for difficulties. At least, until you feel comfortable with YW.
Ron
Ron, I did read at least some of your post. However, I did not experience the troubles you describe there. I got a very good rise out of my banana yeast water starter. The levain acted like levain - all was well. The only thing I had "trouble" with if you can call it that, is I picked a formula that probably just tastes better with a flour-based starter. As I described in my post, I used Akiko's approach to yeast water. I wonder if that approach is more successful as far as bananas go. Briefly, you slice up a banana into a tight lidded jar, and add water to double the volume. Then over the next few days, shake the heck out of the jar frequently, adding water as the bananas swell up, sometimes letting air in to grow the yeast, sometime not letting air in to increase the alcohol. Then after a few days, when the jar starts hissing when you start to remove the lid (this happened at day 4 for me) refrigerate for a day. Then strain out the bananas (in Akiko's case raisins) take some of the water and add equal weight flour and leave on counter overnight. Then use as levain. Feed the rest with more banana and water and leave out overnight, then refrigerate - in other words what you maintain is the yeast water, not the levain. In my case, the volume of the levain multiplied by around 3.5 overnight - really not a bad result. I don't think the yeast water was having trouble getting used to the flour or vice versa. I think you can see by looking at the first two pictures in my post that I got a very reasonable rise. If you have any suggestions for better suited formulas for yeast water please let me know. -Varda
Varda, as long as you are happy, that is all that counts.
Ron
I'm curious as to where the yeast came from. I always thought the yeast was harvested from the peels/exteriors of the fruits and was then transferred to colonize in the water. If you peeled the banana before you put the slices in the water-where did the yeast come from? Did you start with a seed of your SD starter? Just curious.
-Pamela
Hi Pamela, I definitely peeled the banana. Yeast is everywhere - on skin, in the air, and so on. Jcking did a cool experiment (it's somewhere on TFL) where he sterilized flour before using it for a starter, and was able to grow a starter just fine. I was planning to use raisins, both because of your results and Akiko's instructions, but all I had was yellow raisins, and Akiko specifically recommended against those so I just went with a banana. -Varda
Hello Varda,
The flowers are so pretty, but so is the bloom on that loaf! Congratulations on your success with yeast water.
Both loaves are gorgeous!
:^) from breadsong
Thanks breadsong. It was fun to try this technique. And fun (silly?) to pose the bread and flower as if they were dancing. -Varda
Hi Varda,
Fun, yes; beautiful, certainly; but I don't think silly at all :^)
The way the loaf is placed with the leaves around it, it looks like the loaf itself is the 'bloom'...so pretty!
from breadsong
Nice baking, Varda. The yeast water loaf looks great! It shows a really good oven spring, lovely crust colour and excellent crumb. Despite your protestations to the contrary, I think you did very well with the banana yeast water.
Best,
Syd
I guess I wasn't exactly disappointed nor entirely satisfied. But so it goes. Thanks for your comments. -Varda
What lovely loaves, Varda! Thank you for showing us of the crumb between banana yeast water and sourdough loaves. If you don't mind, could you tell me the ingredients and method you used for the banana yeast one? I like that yeast water bread to have higher portion of levain ( exception: multi build levain). I also like that the yeast water's hydration in the levain will be less than 100% at least.
Happy baking,
Akiko
Hi Akiko, Thanks for your comments. I was trying to match Hamelman's recipe but I overshot on the hydration of the yeast water. So I built a 133% yeast water levain the night before baking. (Hamelman's levain for Vermont Sourdough is 125%.)
Then mixed the final dough on the morning of bake:
With these numbers I matched Hamelman's percentage numbers, including his percentage of pre-fermented flour. Since I had put too much water in the starter I reduced the amount that went into the final dough to get the correct hydration.
Method:
Mix all but salt and autoloyze 1 hour. Mix in salt. Bulk ferment for 2.5 hours with two Stretch and Fold. (Here the Yeast Water loaf was much more cooperative and supple than the standard loaf.) Preshape and rest for 20 minutes. Shape into batard and proof in couche for almost 3 hours. Slash and bake at 450F for 20 minutes with steam, 25 minutes without.
I made the loaf with sourdough the same way except my starter was 68% hydration, so I adjusted the water for the final dough accordingly. It was also 5% rye, so I put in less rye to the final dough. But all the percentages, including prefermented flour matched Hamelman. The biggest difference that I could see between the two was the fermentation rate. The sourdough was ready for oven almost an hour before the yeast water loaf. But the yeast water loaf was better behaved when it did go in the oven.
Hi Varda,
Your formula and method sound fine to me. then, I looked up for the method to make banana yeast in Japan.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is the example:
An example of success:
http://cookpad.com/recipe/424470 She uses the banana peel to make strong yeast. Even, your levain rises, at the final proof stage, it goes slow down rapidly although it has good oven spring. Here is the example of mine that was weak yeast water:
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s46/sh/86178889-1bb8-4f47-8d19-594f34944a6e/84f37f24c0db9ab26d0c1d5daa714655
When I made banana bread using Shiao-ping's, I used " Jump-start" with banana ( food part) and a little bit of my raisin yeast water.
Note: The taste of the banana yeast with vigorous shake frequently with banana peel may suffer from the bitterness from the banana skin. I rather try Okiraku lady's method. gentle shakes and wait...
-------------------------------------------------
An unsuccess example:
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/chiko_o321/59604180.html She used only banana food. She mentioned that she couldn't make bread on the conversation between her and her guest at the bottom.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To make yeast water from beginning, I think that we need to use their peel. I may be wrong, but I leave it for reference to you.
Although your banana yeast water loaf looks good. I understand of what you are not satisfied with the taste of the loaf. I have the same experience sometimes. Please let us know if you try again. :)
Happy baking,
Akiko
Hi Akiko. Thank you for your comments. I was able to make a banana yeast water without peel using the steps you listed in your webpage, only swapping out the raisins for banana slices. So it is do-able - the bread did rise both during proof and in the oven. So maybe it is simply an issue of strength and thus speed. In the two bakes I did with yeast water, the first had a pretty meager rise, and the second, documented in this post, a pretty good one. So perhaps once you build up your yeast population high enough, no worries about the type of fruit. I think I'll feed my banana yeast water with raisins next, and see what happens - hopefully my mason jar won't explode. As for taste, I did a blind taste test of both Vermont Sourdoughs this morning - one made with yeast water levain, one with regular levain. This is two days after the bake, and I'll note that both breads still are moist and tasty. However, the regular levain one had a much more subtle, interesting, and complex set of flavors. It was obvious which was which. I've been baking with this regular levain for over a year, and the yeast water for less than a week. Way too early to draw conclusions I suppose. -Varda
Hello Varda,
Thank you for taking the time to explain how you made and your thoughts about your banana yeast water loaf, Varda. I just thought that 3 hour proof is too much to leave at the room temperature. I had let the sandwich loaf dough at the final proof for 3 hours before because the dough didn't rise much as usual ( I think the yeast water was mature enough ), the taste was little unpleasant that I tasted a bit of sour and some weird combination of flavor from the fruit and the flour. I just thought of your yeast water is not mature enough to become flavorful bread yet because of the proofing time and the taste.
Akiko
I agree with what you are saying. And of course value your experience. -Varda
Both loaves are gorgeous, Varda. I prefer the one with levain...I love those translucent crumbs. It must be flavourful. You did such a great job for both.
Sue
http://youcandoitathome.blogspot.com
I got a visit from the translucent crumb fairy I guess. Never know when she is going to show up. Thanks for your comments. -Varda