Busted whole wheat bread
This information is for all my friends at TFL. Help is badly needed. Calling all Ronray male and female for help. Here is the scoop: After baking sourdough and other yeast bread succesfully for almost a year and a half, I felt smuck. So to bake some simple bread like "buttermilk Bread" from Laurel 's kitchen bread book is nothing, so I thought. But, I was wrong. The result was so disappointing that I am shocked. Here is the recipe:
7 g. active dry yeast
1/2 c. warm water (120ml)
3/4 c. very hot water (175ml)
1 1/4 c cold buttermilk (300 ml)
1/4 c honey (60ml)
5 1/2 c whole wheat flour (830 g)
2 tsp. salt (11g)
2-4 tbsp butter 28-56 g (I used 2 tbsp)
Dissolved yeast in the warm water.
Mix hot water with cold buttermilk, honey together. The temp. should be slightly warm.
Put all the flour in a large bowl, add the salt, mix well. Make well in the center . Pour the buttermilk mixture and the yeast in the hole. Mix well. Test the flour to see if it need more flour or water add more water of flour as needed. ( I added 2 tbsp. of water since the dough seemed to be dry) The recipe said tht it need to be knead 20 min. then put in the bowl for first rise 1 1/2 hour.
At this point I did the following, I let the dough rest 20 min.(autolyse), I did a stretch and fold 6 times at 10 min. interval, then first rise 1 hour.
I press the dough flat and let the dough rise on its 2nd rise 45min.(per recipe) use the finger poke test then shape put in bread pan, poke test again and bake it at 325 F. as recipe stated.
The recipe said that the dough will be soft and will rise extreamly high but mine was hard and hardly rise at all. the bread great but the apearence was extreamly poor.
The Laurel's kitchen bread book is awsome and I want to try making more whole grain bread. My first try was a flop as though I am a novice bread baker. What happen? Help is need badly. I need to make this bread for sell but I will not be able to sell any if it looks like a midget!!!
I did test my active dry yeast and it is active. My hot water was 102 F and the warm water was 98 F. I make sure that the salt doesn't touch the yeast. So what went wrong? i think that Lendy D made whole wheat bread from this book before and gave high praise for it. So what went wrong?
Help, Help, Help!
Mantana
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Comments
I think the gluton is not completely develop. I made this bread many times and I had good result with this bread. It needs the intense mix method to develop the gluton in the bread.
siuflower
Good morning Siuflower:
Thank you for your quick reply. Here is my next questions to you:
1.Do you add more wat and how much water?
2. Do you knead by hand or with mixer?
3. I have a hard time kneading this bread since it is quite stiff .My previouse breads are mostly with overnight retardation, and with preferment or sourdough and are mostly large quantities for the market, I uses stretch and fold medthod with great success. I thought that I can use the same method.
4. I used King Arthur Whole wheat flour. What do you use?
Have you ever double and triple this recipe? How was the outcome?
Thank you.
Mantana
I never need to add water. I knead the dough in my machine for 20 minutes. I did added some sprout grain in my bread last time, it did not rise as much as the others but still very soft and airy.
Keep trying and you will learn from the experience. I knead my bread until it feel like baby bottom, then I know it done kneading.
siuflower
Hi Taichef, I indentified your recipe as coming from Laurel's by the ingredient list. I have made it many times. I have tried a few stretch and folds but not as many as you. I almost think the 2nd rise would take care of developing the dough on its own, per the book. It sounds like the first rise went nearly 2 hours. I am not saying that is too long, it might have been perfect considering the dough was probably wound up pretty tight. Room temp varies all over the place so it's a tough call. How long did you let the loaves proof in their pans or were they free form? The recipe states you can give the final proof a little more time, if they were kneaded well. You don't mention at what speed you kneaded, I use speed 1 which on my old mixer is called "mix", and vary that with speed 2, but rarely run it for 20 min. The 2nd rise is what I depend on to do some of the work. With a machine the kneading is pretty efficient. The autolyse time is useful to give some whole wheat flours (particularly course flours) time to absorb what they can, and makes assessing how much more water to add. Over time I have come to using wetter doughs, I think that would be the better mistake to make. If you like overnight sponges try this recipe as Jmonkey has and see if it comes out better. I actually think the straight dough version worked better for me. Or try Laurel's yogurt bread which has a good success rate with me. But don't give up on the buttermilk bread you'll have flashes of brilliant success with it most of the time. Ray
Hello Ray and Siuflower:
Thanks both for your kind reply.
Ray, thanks for your detail analysis. I don't use machine to knead this time since after reading Laurel's book I feel that she is making everthing by hand. I usualy use my KA mixer but want to try hand mix. I may be under mix it. I left my loaf in the bread pan for 30 min before I bake it. I will continue to try Laurel's recipe and see what will happend.
I will use your advise Ray and will get back to you.
Happy Thanksgiving to you both and thanks again.
mantana
Hi Taichef, I was called to dinner and hurried my first post. I meant to add that a couple of things you said, lead me to believe your dough was too dry/stiff. I think after autolyse would have been a good time to correct the hydration. Laurel's guide, is it should be easy to squeeze the dough between your fingers. I guess your memory will help you out the next time you make this bread. There is a cautionary regarding ovekneading this bread. Since you did it by hand, I doubt it was overkneaded. Mabey a little longer proof, than 30 minutes, at 85 to 90 degrees temp. I would have gone to 45 min. or a bit longer. (in a humid environment.) I have made 4 loaves at one bake, in two separate machine assisted mixes. They came out fine. The mixer really helped a lot.
The search box will help you find jmonkey's side by side comparison of his straight dough vs. the biga method he used in an experiment. He felt the biga method yielded a taller rise, and my experience was just the opposite. Both worked well however.
The temp for my yeast water is bet 105 and 110 F for active dry. My two rises are between 80 and 85 degrees, with the final proof a bit warmer as above. Good luck on your next try. Please share your results. Thanks, Ray
Than you Ray: Your breads look great.
mantana.