Help! Cannot get tall loaf with 100% Whole Wheat

First -- 100% whole wheat dough, in my experience, does NOT rise as much as 50% WW.  Making a soaker of the WW and leaving it in the refrigerator over-night will help.

Mike Avery has a recipe that gives good results, but you still will not get the rise of white bread.  See: http://www.sourdoughhome.com.

Look for recipes on left column; click; then find 100% whole Wheat Bread.  It is easier than Reinhart's recipe and give about the same results.

Ford

Hi Dgrock, check out txfarmer's yogurt bread, and featherpuff bread, and you'll know it is possible to get high rising loaves with 100% whole wheat. Both were Laurel's recipes, How she tweaked them to get them there is the question. Two weeks ago I baked the Buttermilk bread from Laurel's and got better than my other recent results, with no added gluten, just a straight dough per her recipe, and keeping it a bit on the wet side. The flour for this loaf was a bit finer than I had been using, plus fresher yeast than I had been using.

This is yogurt bread from an overnight sponge. recipe yields 2 loaves.

I wonder if part of the answer is lurking in your question about the quantity of flour in Laurel's recipes?  Since I don't have the book, I can't look up the information but perhaps you could.  What loaf pan size does Laurel recommend for her recipe?  If she specifies a 4x8 pan and you are using a 9x5 pan, then your loaves will not look tall because they cannot fill up that volume.

The other thing that caught my attention was your statement that the dough does well during the first and second rises, after which it will "then do little or even fall during the final proof."  That suggests over-proofing prior to baking, which is especially easy to do when you want a smaller amount of dough to expand enough to fill a larger pan. 

While I have seen recipes that call for two bulk rises before shaping and then a final proof, I'm not convinced that the more typical approach of one bulk rise followed by a final rise after shaping doesn't work just as well.  There's also less possibility for the yeast to run out of food during the final rise.

So, I'd first suggest that you check the book to see what pan size is recommended.  Once you know whether your equipment matches the recommendation, you can proceed to experimenting with flour quantities, number of rises and, in all cases, keeping a close eye on the dough to make sure that it does not overproof before baking.

 I'll also encourage you to use a scale for measuring ingredients, since volume measurements are obviously open to interpretation.  Granted, Laurel did not write her recipes that way but you can figure out before very long whether she fluffed or packed the flour in her measuring cups.

Happy baking,

Paul

PMcCool's advice is the most helpfull. Weighing is the best way to give yourself the assurance that those ingredient qty's are not part of the problem. When grams are given, I"ll go with weighing. I have measured my flour, for instance, with the most accuracy I can muster, then weighed it. It is fun (at least for awhile)seeing how many tablespoons need to be removed. I like giving the dough a 2nd rise, before the shaping, because it has made the dough riper by then, and it becomes more user friendly. Also, it is still not too late to make tiny adjustments in adding more water, if it still feels like it needs it. Usually by pushing the center down to form a dish, & brushing it on the top.(I said tiny) When pans are indicated they are usually 8x4 in., In Laurel's book. Really good point. The final proof is a touchy, and "touch", thing, that be-devils many home bakers. Laurel's advice is about half the time as the 2nd rise, but she adds, you can be bolder with buttermilk bread and give it a bit longer. Regarding touch, that little bit of information, at the tip of your finger, when you press gently,  really is a learning process all it's own. One success, and all the questions about what went right, really help with your future bakes. Happy baking,  Ray

I had exactly the same problem with the loaves I was baking rom Bernard Claytons book I found out that all I had to do was use a smaller loaf pan or a larger amount of dough and cut down my  risings.  It was really just getting overproofed and when I put them into the oven the loaves fell right down. 

I'll give you the recipe I use now and it never fails me, but take it with a grain of salt because I am, by no means, an expert.  For 1 9X5 pan I use:

1/4c honey

1/2c buttermilk

11/4c hot water

2t salt

2pkg AD yeast

4-6c WW flour

I  dissolve the honey in the water and add the buttermilk and salt, then I add the yeast.  Next I add about two cups of flour and let it mix at a higher speed for about four minutes to work up some gluten.  I have made this recipe a hundred times and I know my flour so I can just quickly add in another three cups of flour and any add ins I want like walnuts etc.  Lately, I have been using 1/4c of my liquid wild yeast starter in with the wet ingredients for some extra zing and rise. (and because I have to get rid of some of it, it multiplies in the dark like baling twine).  I let this dough, which is a little soft and sticky, sit at room temperature for about 20min then stick it in the fridge overnight.  I take it out in the morning, shape it using some AP flour to get a good consistency, stick it in my bread pans, score it and let it rise for about an hour.  I spray it with water and I bake it at 375 until its done.  It gets great oven spring with a verticle score. 

I recently bought two Henry Watson Pottery original suffolk bread bakers and I love them.  They're clay and the shape of them kind of funnels the dough out toward the top so you get a really plump shape. 

PMcCool on July 15, 2010 - 5:42am.

[…] What loaf pan size does Laurel recommend for her recipe?  If she specifies a 4x8 pan and you are using a 9x5 pan, then your loaves will not look tall because they cannot fill up that volume.

The question is, how are the pans measured?  My own pans are are 4×8 at the bottom, and 5×9 at the top, and 2½ in tall.  So, what is their nominative size?

gary

Hi Dgrock, nice loaves. What happened to the middle rise? Can't argue with success, but it should result in a lighter loaf. Yours look great by the way. One more benefit from 2nd rise, the dough will feel right without the extra cup of flour, take it on faith, till you try it. The yeast will not give up, if that is a concern. It looks like you are making great headway. Try using the amt. of flour called for, and hold back a little water.  The flavor is great, yes?  Ray

Hi Dgrock, I too, wouldn't have thought that small pan size difference would have mattered. Clearly something is amiss. Your recent success, shows that many things went right, and the stars alligned for you, as is often the case at my house. You know, the Hail Mary pass, so to speak. There isn't one right way, it seems. I think your adjusting, first the flour then the water, is how several of my sessions went with whole wheat. Your intuition matters. I am sure the more often you bake this bread, the more successes you'll have. Your breads were knock outs. I am impressed.  Ray