January 12, 2010 - 9:06am
Vital wheat gluten + bread flour with whole wheat
Just starting to experiment with the whole grains, (I'm currently using Bob's Red Mill organic stone ground whole wheat flour )
I feel that 100% WW breads are often too dense and flat. No one in my family likes them but me.
I'm thinking of mailordering vital wheat gluten but would simply adding the vital wheat gluten to WW make the loaf lighter?
or do I have to resort to some use of bread flour at least?
What would be a recommended ratio?
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I really don't know much about BRM stone ground, but it sounds to be rather course and heavy. You might try some more finely milled ww flours like King Arthur, or Gold Medal.
I have seen several 100% ww recipes which claim to be "light & fluffy" (for ww), here and other places. I've read that thorough hydration(soaking) and kneading are key.
If the "resistance continues", you might try white whole wheat. It's supposed to bake up lighter and fluffier than traditional whole wheat and has all the whole grain benefits. Not as boldly flavored though.
The vwg does work too, but I think all things being eqaul, a course ground ww flour is just not going to be as fluffy as the more finely milled flours.
ps: The directions on my box of Hodson Mill vwg say 4 teaspoons per loaf. If you consider a loaf being 3 to 4 cups flour, I guess that works out to about a teaspoon per cup of flour. By the way, I see this just about everywhere here in the Atlanta, Ga area so it may be pretty widely distributed. You might want to check near the flour and/or baking ingredients in you local grocers.
I found VWG in the bulk bins of a local healthy food type market (like Whole Foods, but a local chain). It was very economical.
Yes, I agree. I too have(since) found a local bulk source, but of course, no documentation to show.
And by the way, I checked Bob's Red Mill website, and there recommendation is 1 tablespoon per cup of flour...and Bob's is one of the "strongest" I've seen. Those are all just recomendations, I guess, as the different flours one is trying to augment have various levels of gluten available. From almost none, to quite a bit for some whole wheats.
try going to a 50% whole wheat and 50% white flour especially if you are trying to get the rest of the family to go down the wholewheat path then you can slowly add more wholewheat. whole wheat is great flour if you use some dark stout in it too as an overnight soaker or a pinch of yeast in it overnight. Use all the the liquid and all the 50% whole wheat.I think i still prefer mine as a 50/50 mix though.
Try using King Arthur's Whole Wheat white. Try their WW sandwich loaf. It's pretty soft and fluffy and it's 100% whole wheat. You can make it with the WWW and if you retard it in the fridge it will be even better. Also, sourdough seems to mellow out the taste of WW if bitterness is an issue. You could try making this sandwich loaf 1/2 white flour and just keep sneaking up the whole wheat with them.
Do they like rye? That's even more nutritious than WW. If you could get a little rye into a loaf that would be good to. How about some seeds, flax/sunflower/nuts/millet/etc? My family's favorite is a multigrain sourdough with tons of seeds including wildrice, flax, rye berries and wheat berries.
Glad my half of the family (husband,my parent's who I give bread to) love rye and whole wheat as otherwise they would be out of luck as I'm not going to bake white for them. At Thanksgiving, I took some very light, tasty WWW rolls to our dinner with the step kids (none of who eat WW) and about half the family chose to eat the crappy rolls from the plastic bag, not even heated up. I couldn't believe it! Took same rolls to my family and they couldn't get over how good they were.
The none WW side of the family does seem to like rye bread (with WW slipped in) despite the WW phobia. They have no reference point at all for rye as rye is not found in Phoenix anywhere except maybe at a deli served with a reuben or ham/cheese sandwich.
I think it's partly what they grow up with. My husband's ex bought wonderbread so that's what they grew up with and what their kids are growing up with. My mom always had whole grains and rye in the house. Our grandmother lived with us and baked only WW/rye and that's what mom grew up with so that's what I grew up with.
Thank you all for comments.
I'll definitely try adding some rye since I happen to have a bag of dark rye and also 50/50 for my family. I've only just begun baking recently and everyone's so used to store-bought white or enriched breads. btw, what are some nutritional benefits of rye over wheat?
I'd also love to try whole wheat white but don't think I'll be able to get it since I'm not in the US for the moment. Finding 100% stone ground ww and dark rye here was hard enough :(
Rye is very high in soluble fiber and has a very low glycemic index. There are a lot of studies about rye being more healthy for diabetics, menopausal women, prevention of colon cancer. You can do an internet search and be amazed at what you'll find.
I wonder, can you ship from King Arthur internationally, probablly not feasible. Are you military? Where are you located?
I should print out a list of health benefits and let my family see it :)
I'm in Korea for the winter break so shipping internationally will probably expensive. I should probably bring home some if I can next time I come home, though the customs might have restrictions on agricultural products.
This is one of the great puzzles I have come across.So many people seem to think that VWG will solve so many of these texture problems in WW bread.VWG does nothing for the moisture content. Adding vital wheat gluten is not necessary,usually, and will only make your bread crumb denser and chewier. So definitely add it if that is what you are looking for.
But the key to lighter whole wheat bread is:
Whole wheat bread is something i do well and even my husband (who also dislikes whole wheat bread because it is dense and crumbly) likes my whole wheat bread.I bake 3 loaves/week.
Most whole wheat flour has more than adequate gluten formation for a good loaf of bread. But the bran and roughage in it takes a long time to absorb any moisture and if you don't allow it time to moisturise than as it sits in the loaf it takes all that wonderful softening moisture from the crumb,drying it out and making it crumbly.
So soft,flavorful whole wheat is definitely do-able but takes a little more time and if you want to have a loaf with better keeping time and be as soft as you can make it-enrich it with milk,eggs and oil or any combination.
My favorite recipe actually gets mixed into a tacky dough, put in a large plastic container and put in the refrigerator overnight. Next day,finish the rising ,fold/stretch,shape,proof,bake.
Enjoy! Bread is incredibly complex and incredibly easy but always delicious.
Thank you. The loaves didn't come out lighter with vwg. Would you mind sharing your favorite recipe? I'd love to try it out!
I use Bob's Red Mill stone ground whole wheat and get great results using two different recipes. One I found on this site and is the Buttermilk Honey whole wheat posted by JMonkey a couple years ago. The other is Reinhart's whole wheat sandwich bread from his "Whole Grains" cookbook (check your local library for it). Both are 100% whole wheat, use an overnight soak of part of the flour, and are enriched with eggs, butter, honey and use buttermilk as a conditioner. I've never liked whole wheat bread, but I love the loaves these two recipes make. Reinhart's loaf is especially soft and tender, and has great flavor.
I believe the key is the overnight fermentation of the dough. If done correctly, you don't need any other "dough enhancers". I highly recommend Reinhart's book to give a good understanding of the concept and process.
My uncle was a phenomenal baker and rarely used a recipe.Big sigh-I've turned into him! Now I understand-I used to get very frustrated with him.
I have changed my favorite recipe a number of times so I can give you the recipe where I started but it will definitely need tweaking as you go.It, also, is a combo sourdough/yeast recipe, so I'm not sure it will work for you. You aren't the first to ask me for my "recipe". I really need to measure it out again. My Saturday project,perhaps.
My recommendation is to take a single loaf WW recipe (about 3 cups/500g total of flour) from any source and use the concepts I stated above to make it.(Tacky dough,long rest,enriched,some soft, pastry flour). Write the original recipe down in a notebook and take notes on the outcome.Then make it again-same recipe with a single change to see how it affects the outcome of the second loaf. The best way to make a good loaf is to make many loaves and figure out what works best.
Also, review the videos here on the "stretch and Fold" concept. It is a lot easier than kneading and accomplishes the task at hand.
Laurel's Buttermilk Whole Wheat with Biga (recipe on this site) is amazing. Light, fluffy, tasty, and easy to follow directions.
My husband works in a winery and he brought me home some food grade Ascorbic Acid Crystals (same as Vitamin C or sour salt) to use in making sweet and sour stuffed cabbage. I was wondering about using a bit in some breads to "condition" the dough, but maybe that's not such a good idea.
I make KAF's multi-grain bread almost weekly. Their recipe calls for their whole grain "bread improver" which is a mix of VWG and ascorbic acid. I do add some VWG, but opted not to purchase their "improver" and was wondering what the addition of a few crystals of the ascorbic acid might do.