May 11, 2009 - 9:45pm
63% Hydration Sourdough
A pretty loaf; more fluffy crumb and less sour than my Ultimate loaf, well-risen, excellent thinner crispy crust. I suspect retarding overnight would increase the sour somewhat.
60 grams 100% starter
300g high-gluten flour
Mix starter and water, add flour and salt. Mix until rough. Cover and rest 10 minutes. Fold from bottom to top around tub. Cover and ferment until doubled (~7 hours@lower 70'sF). Stretch and fold. Let relax. Shape and put in linen-lined colander until floured finger leaves an indentation (~2.5 hours). Place in 530F oven, covered, for 10 minutes. Reduce heat to 430F. Remove cover at 20 minutes. Continue baking for 12-15 minutes. Turn off oven and leave for 10 minutes. Cool on rack.
Now that's one beautiful boule, crust, crumb, slashing, write-up and photos, Susan. You make it all so simple too! You get a gold star for this one! ; )
Almost no mixing!
Really a "minimalist" method.
Interesting approach to baking temperatures.
So, how would you compare the bread to those made with your other recipes?
"Everyone" says you have to mix extra-long to develop the gluten in high-gluten flour. I'm really intrigued by your contrarian approach.
with the fast yeast builds? This loaf was wandering around in the dark....
Just Beautiful Susan!
absaloutely gorgeous, susan! well i commented under your ultimate sourdough that i was just beginning to experiment with sourdough, as opposed to other pre-ferments--yesterday i made your "ultimate" version and everything looked lovely until I realized I hadnt floured my towel quite enough when i set my loaf in it for the final proofing! so i had to somewhat scrape the dough onto my baking sheet:( i was dissapointed to say the least, because up until then everything was just beautiful! but nonetheless, i stuck it in the oven and covered with a stainless bowl, and guess what! it of course didn't get quite the volume as it would have, but even with the slight deflation it sprang back to life under the bowl and actually produced some nice size holes! :) i must say i was amazed! and hooked! i'd love to try this recipe as well, but one "newbie" sourdough question i had was, do you use the same starter as you do for the "ultimate" version? and do you bake your loaves in the center of the oven or bottom? I seem to have a problem with the bottom getting too brown before the top. Thanks
That's a very tasty looking loaf. I love the color, scoring, and crumb shot.
Wow, you just keep on coming up with new variations on an already excellent bread. This is a beauty. weavershouse
Sometimes mistakes work! I blogged this one to document it, but I'm not yet finished with it. I flubbed the hydration, flubbed the fermentation, and still it came out nicely. Gotta get some sour flavor in there, tho, and will make it again and retard it. Thanks for the contrarian label, David. Sounds more exciting than "messing up the recipe." I still like a chewy crumb more than this fluffier one, but that's just me.
And as Mini noted, this one even escaped into the night, and I had to chase it out the door to get a photo.
Breitbaker, like most things, there's a trick: Use a plain weave towel, not a terrycloth one. Lay it flat on the counter. Dump some flour in the middle and rub it in well. Lay the towel in the bowl or colander, then sprinkle just a little rice flour on it. Only takes a little! After you've turned the dough out, make sure the towel dries completely, even if you have to put it in a low oven. If it's not dry, it will mildew. Store it in a jar or plastic bag. Next time you use it, sprinkle just a little flour, then an even smaller amount of rice flour on the cloth once it's in the colander or bowl. Over time it will become as good as nonstick! Oven placement is in the lower center, and I use a heavy pizza pan rather than a stone, but either works fine. Starter is 100% on this loaf; usually I use about 60% firm starter.
Thanks again, everybody. To be continued...
Susan from San Diego
Wow, Susan, I think everyone has said all the things I would have, beautiful loaf yet again. What dramatic photos, any secrets there? Did you use your favorite All Trumps flour? And would we be bitterly disappointed if we tried it with, say, KA bread flour? Many thanks for sharing and inspiring, A.
I made a 60% hydration loaf yesterday, retarded overnight and baked it this morning. It did have more sour than the "unretarded" loaf, but still didn't ring my bell. But, on the other hand, it might be your ultimate loaf. Photos and method are below. So, for me, back to my firm starter and higher hydration.
60g 100% starter
Mixed starter and water, added flour and salt, mixed. Rest 10 minutes, re-mixed. Fermented 3.5 hours, S&F, fermented 3.5 hours. Shaped and put in linen-lined colander, covered with a plastic bag and stored in the fridge overnight. Brought to room temp this morning, then baked, covered, at 530F for 10 minutes, then removed the cover after 20 minutes, lowered temp to 430F, baked another 10 minutes.
just curious..but any idea how long it takes for your dough to warm back to room temp. after coming out of the fridge?
Well, like most things sourdough, it depends...
I know that's a very frustrating answer, and it WOULD be easier to deal with absolutes, but that just ain't the way it is.
It depends on what room temperature is and fridge temperature was. And if you're at the stage where you can dump out the dough and stretch 'n' fold it a couple of times, it will warm up faster. Is your countertop granite or something inherently warmer? And how much dough are you dealing with?
Too many variables. Mine usually takes between 1.5 and 3 hours.
Susan from San Diego
at the risk of sounding dreadfully clueless, what exactly do you mean by your starter being 100%? I maintain a starter by using 1:3:4 method of refreshment -what percentage does that make my starter? or is there somewhere on this site that explains this?
Breitbaker, 100% is the hydration and that means that by weight, water and flour are equal. Hydration for a starter: water divided by flour (so if you use 50g water and divide it by 50g flour you end up with 1 which is the same as 100%). If you use feed ratios that would be 1:1:1 or 1:2:2 or 1:3:3 or 1:4:4 or ...you get the idea.
Yours 1:3:4 (starter:water:flour) is 75%
thanks mini oven!! one of those things...oh so simple...AFTER someone explains!! :)
Your loaf is so attractive that I'm going to give it a try. Hope it's not too advance for a beginner like me.
May I ask where you got your H-G flour from? Thanks.
Actually, it is quite simple and I'm sure you will do a great job!
I buy my flour in 50-lb bags from a local distributor, or I'm sure you would be happy using King Arthur Bread flour if that is available to you.
Also you might ask at your local "healthy foods" store if they have, or can order, high-gluten flour for you.
Susan from San Diego
I finally found a nearby business which carries H-G flour. It comes in 25-lb and 50-lb bags. Can I use H-G flour in place of regular bread flour to make breads other than sourdough bread? If not, it may take me a very long time to consume 25 lbs of flour. I may have to look for smaller quantities to buy.
Can I assume that flours labelled high gluten have a consistent % of protein in them? Since I'm getting a brand other than All Trumps, I want to make sure that I'm starting off my experiment with ingredients comparable to yours.
I'll be feeding my starter today to get it ready for the weekend baking. The last refreshment was on Saturday in room temperature and it was left outside the fridge all day Sunday. I then put it back in without giving it another feeding.
My starter has a 100% hydration, which was what you used in this recipe. Can I continue to feed it 1:2:2 today and put it right back to the fridge? This way the % of hydration is not altered. But I'm not sure for this 'immediately back to the fridge' method to work, does it require a strict ratio of feeding at 1:3:4?
Thank you very much
You can use HG flour for any hearth bread, as well as for pizzas. Bread flour is 12%+ protein, where HG flour is 14%+, in my experience.
I think I'd leave the starter on the counter, since today is Thursday, and just continue to feed it as you have been.
Susan from San Diego
of flour was what I ended up taking home today since there's actually no 25-lb bag in the store. I've got everything I need for my new adventure. I'll let you know how it turns out. Thank you.
BTW, Susan, how do you store your flour?
Yippee, I use a pet food storage bin, the Vittles Vault Stackable. There are two sizes that I know of, and mine is the larger one (I think it holds 60 pounds). My husband manhandles the 50-lb bag into it and I take it from there!
Susan from San Diego
The mission was not accomplished due to deficient gear and ingredients. Everything went really well until I started loading the dough to the stone. It got so stuck to the liner that it was torn into strands. I rubbed flour in the liner really well like you suggested and sprinkled rice flour on top but the dough still got stuck. With my heart sinking, I sent the now-turned-flatbread dough in the oven anyway.
The 'flatbread' did not brown very well in the oven. This was made with the new H-G flour I bought the other day. All the loaves I previously baked with regular bread flour never turned out to be this 'albinotic.' It never reached the golden brown stage. It just turned from pale to charred.
I think I need new gears and new flour. May be you could give me some suggestions. Here are what I have in mind:
1. Before I order on-line for better quality high-gluten flour, I'll use KA bread flour to try again.
2. A brotform - the smallest I've seen is 8". I think it's too big for your dough but I can use it for other projects. Is this non-stick?
3. Liner for brotform - again the smallest I've seen is custom made for 8".
4. I bought different sizes of colanders that would fit final dough sizes of 800g, 500g and other smaller ones like yours. Obviously I must be using the wrong fabric for my liner. What kind should I get? Do I need to sew it to fit or a loose fabric would do?
I hope my questions are not too overwhelming and thank you for your help.
If you'd feel more comfortable using the KA bread flour, of course you should use it.
Don't for one moment think it is the gear that makes good bread. YOU can make great bread. Tools just help. No, a brotform is not non-stick. You'll have to flour the brotform so that the flour sits in the ridges. I use a small strainer to sift flour over the cloth or into the banneton. Generally, I use a small colander and an 18" square piece of floured linen just laid in the colander, and have no trouble turning out the dough onto parchment. Make sure you are not using glutinous rice flour, but just plain rice flour. May I suggest that you use the above recipe, but use the instructions for Faux Deli Rye (also here in my blog)? Perhaps your dough is not developed enough.
Have you checked the temperature of your oven with a separate oven thermometer? I suggest that you do so, if you have not. You need a big burst of heat from the bottom to begin the baking.
Keep asking questions, you'll get there! Are you sure that your starter is active and ready to raise a loaf? This loaf should not be in the oven more than 30 minutes. How long was yours in? Can you send photos?
Susan from San Diego
Thank you very much for your answers. Here's what I did:
I tried both of your 63% and 60% hydration SD.
08:30 - put in jar for 1st fermentation
17:30 - rose more than double
18:30 - shaped and put in colander
21:30 (appr.) - turned out, stuck and collapsed
gave up, stopped tracking
baked according to your timeline in recipe
09:00 - put in container for 1st fermentation
12:30 - S&F
17:30 - shaped
18:30 - in fridge
06:30 - out of fridge
10:30 - didn't rise much
11:00 - turned dough out of colander, stuck here and there to liner and shrunk
completely gave up, hopeless for this project
baked according to your timeline in recipe
Susan, do you have any additional comments and suggestions? My sunken heart has bounced and is fearless again. I've got the KA bread flour and am ready for the 2nd time. Thank you.
Okay. Here goes: Make the 63% recipe. Mix starter and water, add mixed flour and salt, and mix, wait 20 minutes, *fold in the bowl, wait 10 minutes (3 or 4 times from *), cover and refrigerate overnight. Remove from fridge, flatten on counter, *envelope fold, cover with bowl, wait until dough relaxes, maybe 15 minutes (3 or 4 times from *), let rise until when snipped with scissors you see a holey network (thanks, Dan Lepard, for that hint). BTW, the last two times the dough is folded, round it up well. Turn the dough ball to create surface tension, let rest for 5 minutes to seal the bottom, then overturn into a banneton. Let rise for ~3 hours at room temp. Triple Slash, spray with water, load into 500F oven, cover, bake for 20 minutes, remove cover, lower heat to 460F and bake for 10 minutes. Turn off oven and leave for 5 minutes.
Thank for the photos; everything looks great! When you put the dough into the banneton, cover the dough tightly with plastic wrap and tuck it into the sides of the colander just a little.
Let's get that dough worked a little more, and check your oven temperature.
Good luck, let me know!
Susan from San Diego
May I further clarify a few things:
1. let rise until when snipped with scissors you see a holey network
Will the dough deflate if I do this?
2.then overturn into a banneton
how about turning it out of the banneton? Anything in particular I need to pay attention to so to avoid the same 'tragedy?'
3.Let rise for ~3 hours at room temp
By the end of the three hours, how much should I expect the dough to rise? If my dough has not reached a certain volume at that time, should I let it rise a little longer until, say, leaving a dent in the dough with a floured finger? I'm looking for signs that will indicate my dough is ready to be sent into the oven.
Last time my 60% hydration dough was taken out of the fridge for 4 hours and it didn't seem to rise a bit. I wasn't sure if I should wait longer.
I'll definitely try again and keep you posted. Thank you again for your time.
2. Here's how I do it: Lay a piece of parchment on top of a piece of stiff cardboard. Turn the parchment/cardboard combination over onto the top of the colander, then fllp the whole thing over so that the dough is sitting on top of the parchment which is on top of the cardboard. Usually the cloth comes out of the colander with the dough. Carefully peel the cloth off the dough. If it sticks at all, spray a little water on the cloth and then remove it. Score the loaf, then slide the parchment and loaf off the cardboard and into the oven.
3. It's very hard to tell when a bowl-shaped dough has risen 90%, so your best bet is to poke the dough with a floured finger (about 1/2 inch down). Shoot for putting the dough in the oven when the poked hole SLOWLY fills in. If it fills in fast, the dough is not ready.
Good Luck, and keep me informed!
in regards to the rising technique you offer in "faux deli rye" and also in your replies to "yippee's" questions--is there another rising time other than what you include in the refrigerator and then after you fold and wait 15 min. several times. I'm not sure how to explain this without sounding confusing, but from the directions, i gathered that after taking out of the fridge and folding, you allowed the dough to rise for a period before putting it into the banneton? and then allowed it to rise again? i only allowed the dough to rise in the refrigerator, then folded and rested the several times, and then proofed for 3 hours...currently have it under the bowl in the oven, so not sure what i'll have when i look underneath!
Hope there's not an alligator under there when you peek!
I certainly didn't mean to confuse you. I mix the dough, then put it in the fridge (retard it). When I pull the dough from the fridge, it has not yet doubled in volume, so I give it time to come to room temp and start rising again. The foldings, IMHO, are within the primary fermention time, which ends when I snip the surface and find bubbles in the top of the dough. At that point, I shape and tighten up the surface of the dough and place it in the colander for proofing.
Hope that makes sense! And that your bread is beautiful. Let me know.
thanks susan! I had wondered if I should let it rise more after retarding until it got puffy, but i decided to wing it and just went ahead and folded and let rest 4 or so times, then put it in the proofing basket-and baked after 3 hours...the results..well, i got some great oven spring, and HUGE holes, which for rye bread for sandwiches wasn't quite what i was expecting..not sure what happened..also, my bread tends to be more of a "spreader" than the tight "boule' shape that you have with yours..not sure if it was due to my shaping, or the fact that i maybe used a bowl for proofing that was a little too large for the amount of dough, allowing it to spread rather than rise up--i want to get some pics on here as soon as i can get my software for the camera installed on my new laptop-So..not perfect yet, but the bread did have good flavor, and a nice chewy texture..and browned just lovely..and the oven spring really was amazing! so..not all a loss! especially when 4 weeks ago i had never made a thing with sourdough! any and all hints are very much appreciated!
And if this makes you feel any better, you're doing MUCH better than I did after four weeks! Keep at it. Lower the amount water by say, 5 grams, and see how it turns out for you. Another thing: Tighten the dough before placing it in the colander by turning it on the counter, using the friction of the counter against the dough to tighten the surface. Easy to do, hard to describe. My colander is 6.5 inches across at the top, and 3 inches high. Can't wait to see your bread!
What does it stand for? Thanks.
IMHO = In My Humble Opinion
How's the dough?
I'm getting my starter ready for the job. I'm planning to mix the dough Saturday morning. Will let you know. Thanks.
my sourdough master,
My mission was accomplished! Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Please visit my blog to share my joy of success. I cannot thank you enough!
I tried the immediately-back-to-the-fridge method for the first time. I didn't use 1:3:4 since I was not sure how I can up it to 100% hydration if I need to. It has been 2 days and the starter has risen a little. Am I expecting the starter to rise slowly in the next few days until it doubles in volume? Thanks.