January 9, 2009 - 5:59am
Panettone and "Boy, am I spoiled now"
Hi all: I've been out of internet contact for a while, and it's nice to be back.
Two quick things: First, I made the Panettone from BBA, and YUM! I made 4 of them, gave 2 away, and sliced one up to put in the freezer which gave me weeks of heavenly toast for breakfast!
But here is the second thing. I haven't baked a loaf in a week or so, so my husband decided to pick up a "Sourdough Boule" (which was labeled an "Artisan Bread") at Trader Joe's. I expected a mediocre loaf, but it was downright abominable. Has anyone else been entirely ruined by baking at home, and then not being able to handle a commercial loaf?
Happy New Year all!
KP
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Nice job on the panattones KP.
I feel your pain re: supermarket "Artisan Bread". The stuff is, as you said, abominable. Only real use I've found for it is feeding the seagulls that hang out near the pier at the beach. They aren't too particular, they seem to enjoy it. In fact, they fight over it...go figure :>)
Howard
San Francisco seagulls would turn up their beaks at that bread. "What? Trader Joe's? Where's the Acme? Semifreddi? At least you could have fed us Boudin!"
They're spoiled.
Like us.
David
Hi,
I've only been baking bread at home for three weeks but from the day I started I haven't bought a loaf of any kind from a store. It's easy, fun, doesn't take too much time, it's better for you and best of all my husband likes to bake with me!
Your panettone looks delish.
Janet
Hey karladiane,
That panettone is gorgeous! I better not show my wife your pix or I won't be allowed to bake anything but panettone anymore. That's the one storebought "bread" we still buy, imported Italian naturally.
Up until I began baking sourdough, 8 months ago or so, we would periodically buy a loaf of "artisan bread" at one store or another, and were shocked to find they are universally tasteless. Even the bread at the farmer's markets isn't close to what TFL bakers are used to baking and eating.
Needless to say, sourdough was the final nail in the storebought bread coffin. I guess you could say both literally and figuratively!
Glad to see you back on TFL.
David
What georgous loaves...I would love to sit down and have a slice of your loaf with a cup of tea!!
Storebought...some of the ingredients are scary!!
Sylvia
I know EXACTLY what you mean! When I don't have time to bake or suddenly find myself all out of bread, I can't believe the poor quality of what I'm getting at the stores.
And pizza??? Why on Earth can a home-baker like me with a home-oven like mine blow away all the local pizza joints (every single one of them)?.... Ok. Enough of my complaining. Let it be said that I am convinced that this is a KILLER hobby with OUTSTANDING payoffs. (When I got into this, I had no idea just how good it was going to get.)
Anyway, your pannetone look AMAZING! I've got a barm in the kitchen that I just started today so that I can try a BBA pannetone, myself, before all the snow is gone. I think that if mine come out looking half as nice as yours, I'll be tickled pink! :) Well done.
Johnster
Your pannetonne looks wonderful. I have toyed with the idea of making it but don't know where to get the paper moulds. Can you share your source?
Thanks.
You can get paper moulds from King Arthur if you are in the US.
If in europe, then you can order from Italy. I got mine from www.simani.it
You can also make your own from double layered baking parchment (no pan support required). http://profumodilievito.blogspot.com/2008/12/stampi-per-panettone.html
Here's my blurb on it FWIW:
http://foolishpoolishbakes.wordpress.com/2008/12/29/panettone/
Hope that helps
FP
Additional: with regards to flavourings, personally I don't think the rather expensive fior di sicilia is necessary for authentic flavour/aroma...especially as it is not, to my knowledge (despite what certain companies claim), a traditional ingredient in panettone or pandoro. If you follow a good recipe, the complex sourdough flavours and aromas in combination with some good vanilla extract or vanilla pod really will evoke all the goodness of a traditional panettone without any of the staleness of store-bought.
I didn't know that you could just make your own and bake without support.
--Pamela
But, but... I though the ladies were all baking with the BRA
(sorry, could not resist... :-)
Well the holiday season is approaching and I figured if I want to make a killer Panettone this year it would be smart if I made some practice ones...I know, call me crazy.
So, I was wondering if anyone that has posted on this topic has continued their perfection of the perfect Panettone and how everyone is doing with it. Any updates?
Also, I am obsessed with making it as traditional as possible and people have been mentioning different fruit additions and the use of fior di sicilia. Does anyone know what would be considered the most traditional ingredients in Panettone, even if you personally don't put it in because you don't like the flavor?
Later,
Nick
I, too, want to try making it since it is really hard to find in my part of the world and what I do find is usually not that fresh, Still, I adore the stuff and love to make french toast ith the stale stuff. Mmmmm. I plan on ordering the fior di sicilia from KAF- do you have another, prehaps cheaper, source?
Amaz.
From what I've read, eaten and recipes I've found, Fior di Sicilia is not a traditional flavouring ingredient for Panettone (despite what King Arthur might claim). No disrespect to King Arthur who do produce great bread flours, but we are talking about a company which sells 'Pizza Dough Flavor' as an ingredient!
The classic Panettone flavour comes from the long rising time and 'sweet' biga naturale (repeatedly fed at four hour intervals) as well as, of course, the butter, sugar and often candied fruit. Honey is sometimes added (as well as glucose syrup in commercial baking). Vanilla is the only other flavouring which might be considered 'traditional'.
FP
No kidding, FP? I mean, really? Pizza dough flavour?? What would that be then? Some herbs, salt, perhaps some sourdough powder? I wonder if there's room for more of such "flavouring" products - Vollkornbrot-flavour or croissant-flavour?
Amazingly yes - they also offer 'deli rye flavor' and 'heidelberg rye sour'. Great huh? :)
So, I ran over to Sullivan Street Bakery at lunch today 10-26-09 and grabbed one of their Tradizional Panettone to give a try due to all the hub-bub about it. They also have a chocolate one but I wanted to try a regular one first. I also grabbed a slice of their phenomenal bianca con pecorino pizza they sell, but that is another story.
The taste and scent were great! The rum soaked raisins and the citron was perfect, possibly the best part. The citron is very light in color and cubed. It seems to be baked precisely, judging by the color and moistness but the crumb and texture was a little disappointment. It didn't have the pull/shred that I was expecting. Hopefully you can see this in the picture. The person at the counter said that "it was baked 2 weeks ago but they last for 3 months", haha. I would say that while the Panettone is still good, I would not call it super fresh and I think that was its downfall. I think it stales sooner than they think. Yet, I have not had a more recently baked one from them so I do not have something to compare it to. It may always be like this.
I took some pictures so everyone could get an idea of the size of it (it says NET WT .5K on the tag, I am not sure what that means but it is not huge), what the crumb and fruit looks like inside, how it is cooked, and exactly what you get for your money.
PS They do not use any flavors or flavor powders to give it its taste or scent. I would say that this is very close to the recipe that he has put out.
Nick
For those following the "Challenge", this was bread number 24 out of the 43 from BBA book.
We absolutely loved it! I thought fiori di Sicilia was a traditional addition, maybe because all panettoni sold in Brazil definitely contains it. I grew up with that smell around the house during holidays...
I will definitely be making it again, but feel that the paper baking thingies is the way to go. Because my pan was a little bigger than 6 inches, my bread is not as high as it should have been. But the taste... WOW!
If anyone is interested, I posted about it on my blog, but here is a photo of the crumb...
http://bewitchingkitchen.wordpress.com/2009/10/25/bba24-panettone/
Great recipe!
I didn't buy any last year- couldn't find it locally but THIS year I will be baking my own! My sourdough has always been a hit-and-miss affair, so I will look for a yeasted recipe. Mmmmmmm, I can almost taste it!
If you would like to try your hand at a more traditional 'naturally leavened' recipe:
http://foolishpoolishbakes.wordpress.com/2008/12/29/panettone/
It really is worth the effort but it requires about 2 days devoted to the dough.
Cheers,
FP
Now THAT is what I'm talking about! I can almost smell it and I can see how feathery soft it is. Okay, I'm in! I just refreshed my starter....
Amaz.
Is it me, or does Lahey's seem more cake like, as pictured a few posts above? That also seems to be the case from this other blog that is presumably following his recipe:
http://www.andreasrecipes.com/2008/12/25/slow-rise-panettone/
Understandable as that seems to be the texture of some no knead breads.
Some of the others pictured here seem a little more feathery textured, somewhat challah to brioche like. I guess there's all kinds.
This is some great stuff!
FP - Your Panettone recipe looks fantastic! That is a great finished product. I am definitely going to experiment with yours too. My starter "Paul" thanks you.
Dwighttsharpe - I know Lahey's Panettone looks somewhat cakelike in my picture above but I think it is because it is a little stale and it didn't cut cleanly. It is a little denser and doesn't have the large irregular holes that FP's picture has above but it does have the feathery textured like challah and brioche has.
There has been a bit of info and discussion on what flours to use when making Panettone, in the interest of what is traditional does anyone know what type of flour is used? Is it true that 00 flour is the correct flour to use and is used in Italy for this product?? I use 00 flour to make my Neapolitan style pizza. I didn't realize the use of 00 flour was that extensive...what else is it used to make in Italy?
Thanks,
Nick
Thanks for the compliment Nick. If you visit some of the italian flour mill websites, you can actually find flour sold specifically for long-fermentation breads such as Panettone. 00 simply refers to the degree/fineness of milling. The blend of wheats determines the strength, elasticity etc.
Since it's hard to find those flours outside of Italy, I tend to use a mix of 00 medium strength (11% protein) and canadian hard wheat flour ('Manitoba' in Italy). I believe flours like Caputo Rosso or 'Rinforzato' might be your best bet, if you want to stick with 100% 00...although I have no first hand experience.
On this page, there's a link to a cool video of panettone being made in a bakery:
Cheers,
FP
Wonderful video! Thanks to Portuguese being close to Italian, I could follow 90% of it - loved how at the end he inverts the panettone to allow the butter to re-distribute in the bread. Very interesting.
the machine that kneads the dough is amazing, mimics so well the movement of a baker's arms!
I will have to watch the ciabatta and baguette next.
because I can't understand most of what they are saying in Italian and still I am mesmerized watching the giant dough mixers, wishing I had something like that. I think I now have flour and yeast in my blood....
Great vids! Have you seen this one? It is great too as well as the other videos in his profile.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2i_quMztVk
Nick
So, I finally made Jim Lahey's "Best Ever Panettone", from the December 2008 issue of Gourmet Magazine that everyone has been raving about. I can tell you that it is the greatest thing I have ever made. I am very happy with it.
Here are some pics.
Nick