December 28, 2008 - 7:07am
Hi from Canada
Hi, I'm from Ontario Canada and am just starting to acknowledge my secret love for artisan bread baking. Growing up we had a bread machine whose loaves I always felt proud of (because you know, we were -baking- our own bread) but since then I've tried dabbling in yeasts and wild starters.
I just acquired Peter Reinhart's Whole Grain Bread Book and am really excited to learn and try everything I can or at least as much bread as my family can take. I'm looking forward to contributing to the bread baking community.
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Greetings from K-W. Where in Ontario are you?
I'm in Oakville.
I'm in the London area. Good to see other bakers from S/W Ontario.
Burlington here...
Moved to Kingston, Ontario from Montreal two years ago...
I'm in Montreal, and have been for most of my life. There were three years in Dublin Ireland, but Montreal is home.
I don't know if I've ever mentioned here that I was born in Montreal. My folks lived on Nuns' Island. I've lived on the West Coast of the US since I was two, but I did get things straightened out last year so I have dual American/Canadian citizenship.
And this small world keeps getting smaller on the 'net. I knew there was something about this site that kept bringing me back: a fellow Montrealer.
I just went to Ireland this year and absolutely loved it! I envy your Dublin living.
...a lot since I lived there, but we were back in 2005 for a visit and the rest of the country is the same beautiful place. I found Dublin to be very crowded and very expensive this time 'round. I lived on the north side, near the Phoenix Park, where I ran a coffee shop in the Dublin Zoo; this was over forty years ago.
I know what you mean by expensive. I went in May so crowds weren't too bad at all. It's such a gorgeous island.
Just wondering if anyone knows of any great suppliers or has any favorite bakeries in Ontario?
Also from Southern Ontario!
I would be interested in knowing some Canadian resources for supplies such as bannetons too. (And if they had free shipping... that would be even better!)
... other than Robin Hood, Five Roses or Monarch which are all owned/produced by Shmuckers' Foods. I'm getting mighty tired of paying $11 for a 10kg bag of "national brand" bread flour. Someone somewhere around here must sell larger bags at better prices.
Pretty irritating, isn't it? What gets me is that Smuckers is making decisions about what we want (ha) based on what's more profitable for them. Five Roses dark rye and unbleached bread flours have been discontinued since Five Roses moved their headquarters to Smuckers. It's my suspicion that Five Roses will soon disappear entirely. Sad state of affairs.
I just bought a 10kg bag of "no name" unbleached all-purpose flour for $8.49 at our 'no frills' store.
I haven't yet made the treks yet, but Brant Flour Mills Ltd. near Brantford and Grain Process Enterprises Ltd in Scarborough (115 Commander Blvd) look promising. Unfortunately, Brant Flour Mills do not list their prices on their site and Grain Process Enterprises Ltd. do not have a website at all.
-Elizabeth, in Toronto
P.S. Also, take a look at Mariana's reply to the thread "Rye flour in Toronto".
Fortunately, the Loblaws yellow "no name" also comes in the 20kg size and goes (now) for about $12 so that's still pretty decent. But to pay twice that for a half size bag of bread flour is very bothersome. And it's not like there is a good variety of brands available, it's either the three Big Names mentioned above or the house brands which usually just come in bleached or unbleached AP. Although I've noted Duncan Hines also being sold at Sobeys but they don't sell a "bread" variety.
There's a definite dearth of bread flours available in this country which is really appalling since Canada produces a HUGE amount of flour and ships it worldwide.
Costco only sells bleached AP in two brands: Robin Hood "bakery" - which I assume is same as store type but plain brown bags - and Duncan Hines.
I'll have to check Bulk Barn tomorrow and see what they have and how much it runs per kilo.
Bulk barn flour is more expensive per kilo than most places - or at least it was when I last checked.
You get Loblaws yellow no-name flour in 20kg bags? I thought 10kg was the largest. That is the kind of flour we are getting: yellow no-name unbleached all-purpose. At our local no-frills store, 10kg is $8.49. At our local Loblaws, 10kg is $12.00.
I agree that it is disgraceful that we have so much difficulty getting bread flour here, considering that so much wheat is grown in Canada AND that strong flour is called "Manitoba flour" in Europe. It's just wrong, isn't it?
-Elizabeth
Hi, no, I mis-spoke/wrote. They're 10k bags for about $12 at Fortinos. I guess I had the 10k = 20-some pounds number running in my head.
I've checked goldaskitchen.com and she doesn't have bannetons either; that's the only Canadian outlet that I know of, though specialty kitchen shops may carry them. There's one here in Montreal called Ares that seems to have almost everything.
I get organic flour from Oak Manor Farms (between Kitchener & Stratford). Call ahead (519-662-2385) as they have a small retail shop and occasionally have a limited selection. Anyone know where to find an Electrolux DLX in Ontario?
There is a little town north of London, called Arva, that has a flour mill where they mill and sell flour and other grain products. We always stop there when we visit London and pick up our supply of flours and grains. If you drive right up Richmond street, and continue on Hwy 4, you can see the mill from the road.
I believe they used to have a website... this map gives the street address. I have bought from them as well. Nice folks.
I just bought a 20kg bag of unbleached hard white from Arva for $21.25 taxes in.
I believe the 10kg bags are about $12 there. Also they sell 50kg bags and if you buy 5 or more there is a small discount.
It's amazing how quickly I can go through a 50lb bag of flour.
I've been buying it at Loblaw's for a few months now, unbleached, $7.49 for a 5kg bag and I usually buy two at a time. It's very good for bread, and whatever else I bake that doesn't call specifically for pastry flour. I've never tried the store brand, but I may in the New Year. I haven't seen a 10 kg bag of any kind of flour for less than $15 in Montreal!
I have used Weston's flour and been quite happy with it.
When I lived in Montreal a few years ago and Weston's flour came on the market, it was super cheap and I bought a few bags. It worked well. A little while later, I bough more and was less impressed.
I've noticed that the supply as well as the prices for Westons fluctuate more so that with other brands; sometimes there are no bags on the shelf for long periods of time and then all of a sudden they have a crazy sale. I wonder if they get all their flour from the same supplier.
That being said, the last time I bought a bag of Westons, it made some great bread. Since then, I have tried a few different white and whole wheat flours from health food stores. Most of them buy from Grain Process Enterprises and the supply and prices are relatively constant. It's good flour. I particularly like the stone ground organic flour. I can also get local organic whole wheat flour from health food shops, which is too expensive, but good.
I use the 10 Kg bags of no-name unbleached AP flour at No-Frills for $8.79 (was a few dollars more a few onths ago). I find their flour really fresh. It makes excellent french bread. There is a great turnover of these bags. I assume the number printed on the top of the bag is the day of the year that it was bagged. If I'm right, there's a two month shelf-life before purchase which is almost constant.
With regards to Arva and Oak Manor, do any of you know how much (approx) per kilo do they charge for unbleached all-purpose and dark rye?
-Elizabeth
The bread is brought in from Germany every day. The Dutch don't do their own bread baking. We lived in Groningen in the NE corner of the country. I gave up trying to bake bread when we lived there. The bakeries were so well stocked and everything was so good. The Dutch do sometimes make their own cakes and cookies at home so you can try that instead. Speculaas cookies are so good. Also apfel kuchen. I have a couple recipes if you would like I can type them in. A neighbor gave them to me when we lived there. Caroline
...of types of wheat flour and bread. One of the great things about this forum, every nation seems to have bread as the basic food. And it varies according to the type of wheat grown there.
How much of the land in Holland is given over to growing wheat? It's only a small country, so there can't be much. We visited once, and loved the Dutch people.
About Holland: in 2006 30% of Holland was used for agriculture (approx 1 million ha, another 30% is grassland. A quarter of the agriculture land is used for wheat, mostly in the provinces Zeeland and Groningen (source is CBS, nat. stats. office).
I would guess that most wheat is importorted from France or Poland. Will ask at the mill next time.
Groeten,
Jw. (who is very, very Dutch, but lived in Hoosier country for a year as a student. Great bread at the Amish there, much liked in Switzerland here).
FYI, I've started a new thread with a listing of Ontario supplies.
I just posted a comment under the new thread about Merrylynd Organics (Lakefield/Peterborough) but also thought I'd mention that I've had great success with President's Choice Organic unbleached all purpose flour. Not sure where it comes from but it does say Product of Canada. I used to swear by the organic WW President's Choice (when I did a lot of breadmaker bread) but they must have switched suppliers because the texture changed and it had a lot of sharp bits of bran or chaff in it. Maybe it's better now; I haven't bought it for a couple of years. In any case, the price is very good for organic flour.
I must say I wasn't impressed by the PC ww flour either; there were way too many sharp bits in it and the bread had a very hard time rising. I've since switched to the NO NAME ww flour, but still buy the Weston unbleached white flour.
I buy No Name unbleached all-purpose and have been pretty happy with the results from it. But I am unimpressed by No Name whole wheat flour - not enough protein (or at least that was the case some years ago). Since then I have been buying 10kg bags of Five Roses OR Robin Hood ww - whichever is the lower price at the time.
However, since learning that both Five Roses and Robin Hood are now owned by Smucker Foods, I'm planning to look around again.
It's just a guess but I suspect that both PC and NO NAME flour may be Weston. Because aren't they all run by Weston?
-Elizabeth
That's the trouble with President's Choice. I don't think there is really any quality control. I sometimes suspect that the President is making choices based on lowest price rather than best quality, even though the company claims otherwise.
(offtopic: We used to buy President's Choice mango ice cream. It was fabulous. And then suddenly it wasn't fabulous because they changed suppliers. And surprise, surprise, it wasn't even available at our store any more because nobody was buying it.)
-Elizabeth
If you can get it in your area; it's made in the Eastern Townships of Quebec and is the best ice cream I've ever had. As for the flour, all flour has to come up to Canadian standards, I gather, to be sold here, and it is possible that Weston might be from the Loblaw's company, I'm just not sure.
Yes, the Westons own PC, No Frills, No Name, Weston and probably a whole host more different labels but I am sure that most are from different suppliers.
On another note.. they might not be a bad family to marry into!
I'm from Aurora, Ontario. I've been looking/googling bannetons for weeks now and can't find anything. Did anyone else have any luck?
Thanks.