The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

The Greenstein-Snyder Gang’s Rye Sour Bread

alfanso's picture
alfanso

The Greenstein-Snyder Gang’s Rye Sour Bread

Not to be confused with the Ruth Bader Ginsburg Gang.
 
Having no experience with rye sour levains, I thought it was high time to get on the stick and rustle me up a dose.  I think the idea came to me after seeing Varda’s recent comment and quest for NY rye.  So off I went.  

With no First Clear flour, I relied on the Pearson’s Square method to combine differing grains with differing protein percentages in order custom create the high protein percentage that I wanted, somewhere around 15.3%.  The Bread Flour itself is at 13.3% (Pillsbury) and the Vital Wheat Gluten at 56%.  In order to get what I wanted, the Pearson’s Square told me that I need a mix of 95.3% Bread Flour and 4.7% VWG. (95% & 5% for practical purposes here).
 
All I had to start with was my standard kinda-does-everything stiff levain.  Just the discarded throwaways from prior builds, but which I have found can perpetuate themselves endlessly – and rather quickly.  Starting out with not much more in my container than scrapings of maybe two dozen grams I did two builds with just rye and water.
  
Here is the container with 100g of fresh feed mixed together with the 20 or so grams of leftover levain.  On the left is the just fed mix, on the right is 3 hours later.  I discarded ~half and then did another 100g feed, from which I used 50g to start my rye sour levain according to David Snyder’s 3 stage build schedule.

        

Here is what the rye sour looked like just after the first stage feeding, and what it looked like after the 3rd stage at completion.  For the first two stages, the sour matured at the 3 hour mark, and at the third stage it was completely domed over in just under 2 1/2 hours, well ahead of the recommended time of 4-8 hours.  That’s 750g of rye sour in that second picture.

       

I made three 475g batards out of them instead of the two ~750g loaves that David displays.  On the left, they are finished fermenting and ready to be glazed and scored.  These babies grew like something out of sci-fi movie!  

This step took only 45 minutes instead of 1 hour to complete.  On the right, they have received the glaze and are scored.  I decided to score 2 of the 3 length-wise (not wise!), the 3rd across the top as recommended.  The shaping was actually better than what's in the picture, but these grew so rapidly that they wound up mis-shaping each other - as evidenced by the middle fellow who was squeezed from both sides.

       

There are the kids underway.



And the finished product.  

 

The caraway seeds are there, but non existent in the photos.  This is a significantly darker crumb than the rye breads we had growing up in the Bronx, where all three bakeries within 4 blocks of my street sold them.  The crust isn’t anywhere near as “crackly” as those either, in fact a bit on the softer side.  But for the most part they do taste of the rye bread that I knew growing up.  I’m not that excited about the look of these, but for a first time, I’ll take it.  And that just means that there is room for improvement!

Lessons learned:

  • As I already knew, rye doesn’t act much like AP flour.  It is thirsty and my French Folds required much more muscle to perform.  In a home mixer, I can imagine the motor groaning and quitting.
  • Note to self - make two 750g loaves next time, not three at ~500g.
  • Don’t plan on doing much else once the final dough mixing starts.  The action between prep, clean up as I went along and attending to the next step was almost constant due to the proximity of the steps and rapidity of the dough’s final rise.
  • Therefore have as much mise en place as possible.
  • In general, the dough was much easier to handle than I had anticipated, knowing rye's sticky reputation.
  • Consistent with my warm-ish kitchen and generally spunky levain base, everything happens faster, and the timings for most steps are shorter duration. This I well knew going in, and timed it as such.
  • Don’t bother with fancy, alternate scoring.  It looks as though rye doughs have a minimal oven spring when it comes to a grigne.
  • Once the rye sour is domed and ready for incorporation, the entire activity can be completed in mere hours.  Total time for the final mix, shape, rise, & bake was under 2 1/2 hours.  Along with the third stage build, all activity today was under 5 hours.
  • I would have liked to have baked these longer, to get a better crust coloration, but they didn’t seem to want to be cooperative, and they were finished being baked without being willing to take another deeper shade. 

alan

Comments

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Should make some great sandwich bread for sure.  Wish i had some for a smoked turkey breast i'm putting in the smoker in about 10 minutes:-) They may not look so great to you but rye breads don't brown like others do either.  Well done and

Happy baking

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

The crumb looks especially wonderful for this bread.

I have never gotten the sort of crackly crust that is ideal for Jewish Sour Rye. I'm not sure why. However, I have changed my baking temperatures since the blog entry you cited. I now bake at 460 dF with steam for 15 minutes, then at 440 dF in a dry oven for 20-25 minutes. The crust is darker and crisper. 

Your relative lack of oven spring is due to fully proofing the loaves, I think. This also protected them against bursting. 

David

alfanso's picture
alfanso

I did take note of the modified bake temps and times.  Being in the 500g range, I gave them the full 15 minutes of steam at 460dF and then another 20 at 440dF.

Should I have proofed them shorter than even the 45 minutes to allow for oven spring?  When I spread the parchment out, I took note of both outside doughs looking as though they had already split the skin a little, but still decided to score them.  Maybe I was a little too aggressive in tightening up the skin when I formed them?

always a next time...

SteveMc's picture
SteveMc (not verified)

loaves and walk through of your sour dough process thanks,it's made me want to try sour dough.

alfanso's picture
alfanso

I'd like to add that your recent batard shot has wonderful scoring and shaping.  And if you haven't yet plunged into sourdoughs (which I typically refer to as levains), then you've only been baking for a short time.  But from the look of that batard, you are off to a great start.

Although I live on the opposite end of the earth from you, I recently became aware of an extraordinary baker in Brisbane, if you're interested in looking him up.  His name is Philip Agnew and he post here from time to time under the ID of PiPs.  Take a gander here: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/33735/home-bread-fighting-gravity

Anyway, if you are thinking of getting the sourdough bug, there is a recent posting here about it from emerogork

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/42835/care-and-feeding-starter-its-dead-jim which is a good starting point.

Welcome to the TFL club.  It's a good one!

alan

SteveMc's picture
SteveMc (not verified)

Thank you for the compliments, I have been looking at PiPs bread isn't it awesome, nice to know he's in Brissy too. Actually his 88% hydration gravity defying bake was the inspiration for my last night / thismornings bake.

TFL certainly is a good one. Next stop levain.

 

SteveMc's picture
SteveMc (not verified)

before (eaten or baked) and with my new levain going strong I walked the dog to my local health food store and picked up a kg of rye (12%) also a kg of whole wheat (14%) for something else.

They didn't have vital wheat gluten? so I won't be able to replicate your high protein blend. So I'm going to stick to Vardas recipe you linked to and using your lessons learned from this and your re do and try my luck with a rye bread, thanks Alfanso.

alfanso's picture
alfanso

The rye levain, as laid out by David Snyder, works like a charm, although my kitchen is warm and everything happens faster here than in the average temperature kitchen.  

The Vital Wheat Gluten amped the overall protein up by 2%, but this should still work relatively fine with just a high protein bread flour.  But then again, I've only made this bread twice, so how much do I really know???

If you haven't yet, then see my follow up version of this bread with the lessons learned and applied.  Big difference.  Good luck!

alan