The Fresh Loaf

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clazar123's picture
clazar123

A question about fresh milled grain and fragile dough-are they related?

I just milled a batch of red hard spring wheat last week and used it to make a batch of multigrain bread today. What I noticed is that when I turned the dough out after a rise to double, it tore very easily when handling. I did 1 stretch and fold and let it rest for 10 minutes. There were several surface tears forming as it rose slightly in that 10 minutes. I was going to do another S&F after 40 minutes but I didn't like where this was going. I divided,formed and panned the dough. It seemed...fragile... when handling and tore very easily. I was going to just make boules but it seemed too stretchy and flattened easily. This was a well developed and well kneaded dough. That is an important factor in this particular multigrain loaf.

The only other significant factor I can think to add is that I use a preferment with equal volume flour,water(about 1 cup each) and 2 tbsp sourdough starter. It was "ready" last evening but I never made the loaf so I added an additional 1/2 c whole wheat flour that was also milled last week. It was quite cool in the house (65F) so I thought it would be fine. Today it looked quite satisfactory and smelled nice and yeasty. This dough was a "seat of the pants" put together of a large loaf so my measurements are non-existent. I've made it so many times I just do it. It is rising quite nicely in the pan but there are tears apparent in the surface where there was any tension.

 Is it a factor that the flour wasn't "aged" post milling? I've never had that issue before though I have had this tearing issue once or twice-never been able to pin anything down as to why. Is it related to the sourdough preferment? Is this an enzyme problem as a result of a longer pre-ferment?

 

jamesjr54's picture
jamesjr54

Syd's multi-grain boule

Made Syd's multiple-grain boule this weekend. Very happy with the results. Followed the formula, with agave nectar subbing for the malt.

Bulk ferment 2 hrs with 2 S&F. Pre-shape, shape, then retard in the fridge 14 hours (overnight). 1 hr. At room temp, score, and baked with no pre-heat in combo cooker 30 min covered, 25 min uncovered. (heated gas oven to 550, cooked at 550 for 10' then lowered to 475 for duration.

sam's picture
sam

80% rye

Hello,

I have not made very many high-concentration Rye's, but I do like that you can make 'em in a day.   But then you have to wait a long time before cutting into them.   So I guess it's all the same.   In any case, here is the bake for today.    It is an 80% rye, 25% of it being what I refer to as my own "chunky rye stuff" -- milling rye berries beyond the Grob level of my Komo miller.   It results in a mixture of chunks of berries and meal.

Last week I attempted a similar bread but heavily favored towards a mash in the dough and not a lot of acidified levain flour, and the loaf literally collapsed in the oven, half way through the bake.   :)   For this bread, I did not do a mash, because I was not up to a mash experimentation mood after the last rye failure, and also a friend expressed desire for a high concentration rye bread and I didn't want to mess it up too much, so this bread is for him.  I did a room-temp soaker though, with the chunky rye + rye flour, and increased the percentage of levain.    This one did not collapse on me.  :)

Here was the recipe I made, and pictures.   (Sorry, no crumb shot yet, and apologies for so many pictures).   Yes I did use baker's yeast, but in retrospect, I don't think that was needed.    All weights in grams.

Total Dough Weight: 2000  
Total Dough Hydration: 80%  
Total Dough Flour Weight: 1111  
Total Dough Water Weight: 889

Percentages:
      
Levain Percentage: 35%  
Levain Hydration: 125%  
Starter Percentage: 10% of levain
Starter Hydration: 125%

Soaker Percentage: 36%
Soaker Hydration: 100%  
Soaker Salt Percentage: 1%  
Final Dough Salt Percentage: 1.5%
Baker's Yeast Percentage: 1.5%

Levain:
Whole Rye Flour Weight: 372  
Water Weight: 465
Starter Weight: 39

Soaker:    
Chunky Rye Stuff Weight: 278
Whole Rye Flour Weight: 122
Water Weight: 400
Salt Weight: 4
      
Final Dough:

All Levain
All Soaker
Whole Rye Flour: 100
Strong White Flour: 222
Salt Weight: 13
Baker's Yeast Weight: 17

 

Here is the soaker on the left, the levain on the right:

 

Closeup of levain:

 

Another closeup of levain.   It was a little bit past ripened as you can tell from the receeding, but still OK:

 

 

Here is the Chunky Rye Stuff + Whole Rye Flour soaker:

 

 

Here is the final dough after mixing.   I wasn't expecting any kind of dough ball to form.  I had to alternate between the Paddle and the Hook, several times, to get everything mixed thoroughly.   Probably should have simply used my fingers, in retrospect.  The dough Hook is pretty much useless in the beginning.

 

 

I got most of it in the Pullman pan.    I'd say about 90% of the dough.    I was worried it was too much for this size of pan.   The rest of the dough I tossed.    I smushed it in the pan with wet hands and smoothed out the top.

 

 

Baking, after the 1st 15 mins of steam:

 

 

Here's the final result minus the crumb picture:

 

I baked it at 475F for the first 15 mins, then lowered to 380F for 75 minutes.  Internal temp registered 207F.

In the latter stages of baking, the kitchen became full of such a strong, powerful Rye aroma, it should have been illegal.   :)  

If I can get a crumb shot I'll update tomorrow.

Happy baking!

 

Breadandwine's picture
Breadandwine

Light-hearted breadmaking!

I teach breadmaking (around 10 hours a week, ATM) – and each session only lasts two hours from start to finish. I run two sorts of sessions; one for adults with learning difficulties, where we make different breads each week; and regular 5-week courses - for parents and children in a local primary school (Family learning); and community evening classes for the general public, where the content is fairly well structured (each course has a session on loaves, rolls, pizzas, etc.)

One of my oft-repeated maxim to my students is that anything that can be made with pastry can be made using a bread dough. Another is that pretty well any sandwich can be taken back a stage, with the bread and filling cooked together – which takes it to a different level entirely.

I’m always looking for new things to try; innovative (to me, anyway!) ways to use bread dough.

So I thought I would start a thread about the different ways in which a bread dough can be used.

Here are a few breads I make with my groups on a regular basis:

Stuffed mushroom en croute. This is simply delightful made with a bread dough. I used to make it stuffed with Roquefort cheese and pesto – now I’m a vegan I use mushroom pate and pesto. But whatever the filling it’s a very tasty dish:

http://nobreadisanisland.blogspot.com/2011/09/stuffed-mushroom-parcels.html

Cheese, broccoli (or onion) and potato pasties. I make these for myself using nutritional yeast and flavourings instead of cheese – and I often include some curry powder in the filling. Great for using up leftovers:

http://nobreadisanisland.blogspot.com/2011/09/cheese-potato-and-broccoli-or-onion.html

As for taking a sandwich back a stage, what about a cheese and tomato sandwich? These wraps are the bee’s knees!

http://nobreadisanisland.blogspot.com/2010/03/cheese-and-tomato-sizzlers-wraps.html

Instead of a jam (jelly) sandwich, try these healthy jam doughnuts:

http://nobreadisanisland.blogspot.com/2010/09/healthy-jam-doughnuts.html

Which leads me to petit pain au chocolat (chocolate rolls) – what could be simpler than these. Just squidge a bit of decent chocolate into a small piece of dough, seal it around – and that’s it!

http://nobreadisanisland.blogspot.com/2010/08/petit-pain-au-chocolat.html

The same method can be applied to anything you want to wrap in bread. I used to make small Brie parcels (Cheddar has more flavour, IMO – but it always finds a way out, no matter how well you seal the dough). If my lad was around when I was making them, he’d tell me, “If you’re making those bread parcels, Dad, I’ll have ham, cheese and tomato in mine!”

And iced buns. At its simplest, sweetened bread rolls covered with icing when baked – but very tasty (not to mention cheap!) indeed:

http://nobreadisanisland.blogspot.com/2010/03/iced-buns.html

Pane frattau, from Sardini: One of the most far out (IME) uses for bread is to take a thin, crisp bread (musica da carta), split it and soak it in broth. Used instead of pasta in a lasagne it adds a whole new depth of flavour to the dish – and is a regular favourite of mine. It’s a bit fiddly, but, oh so worth it!

http://nobreadisanisland.blogspot.com/2010/04/sardinian-carta-da-musica.html

All these breads can be made with a dough as rich or as simple as you wish. They could even be made using sourdough!

I would love to hear from other posters about any unusual breads they make.

Cheers, Paul

bshuval's picture
bshuval

Approximating malted wheat flakes

Hi all,

I have recently taken a liking to malt. I decided to try my hand at making a granary-style loaf. However, I don't have access to granary flour or malted wheat flakes. I can get wheat flakes, and I can get malt syrup, so I thought that maybe a combination of the two might be useful (perhaps toasting the wheat flakes and adding some malt?!). Since I have never tasted granary bread, I don't know what I am looking for... (Another option I've been thinking about is simply using coarsely ground caramel malt). 

So, if anyone can help in telling me how to approximated malted wheat flakes, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!

JoeVa's picture
JoeVa

KAF Testing in Italy

Just a Sourdough Miche I baked this morning.

I used King Arthur All-Purpose and Whole Wheat flour my father bought for me in Boston.

The miche was made with:

  • KAF AP - 80%
  • KAF WW - 20%
  • Water - 70~75%
  • Salt 2%

Short mixed, raised with two starter (a liquid one over AP and a stiff one over WW), proof retarded.

DSC04305

A really easy flour to work with. As strong as you need, balanced extensibility/elasticity profile, beautiful fermentation activity. And it taste very good too! I'm really pleased with this flour ... even more if I think it's sold in every store (US bakers are lucky).

Here crust & crumb:

DSC04312

DSC04314

DSC04317

Salilah's picture
Salilah

Light Rye Rolls

Based on a recipe from cityhippyfarmgirl through Yeast Spotting:

http://cityhippyfarmgirl.com/2011/09/20/golden-light-rye-rolls/

I thought I'd give these a go.  I didn't have the malt flour, and my shaping is not quite up to scratch - so I went more for the rustic look and didn't do the rye wash.  Also I didn't have flaxseed so used linseed instead!

Recipe:

200g starter at 100% hydration (I did this as a preferment from starter to make sure it was lively after a week in the fridge)
250g strong white bread flour
100g rye flour
50g golden flaxseed
250g water
10g salt

Method:

Mixed all except salt for an autolyse of about an hour.  Quite a few S&F over about a 4 hour period - quite a sticky dough!

Cut into 6 chunks and roughly shaped for a 20min rest; shaped into batards (couldn't quite get the points from the original) and proofed for about 2 hours on a teatowel until well risen.  Bedtime dictated timing for baking - so I didn't really check if they were fully proofed.  10mins under a cover at 220C, then 20mins uncovered at 220C (turning once) - this felt quite long for rolls, but they are quite big!

And - for those who would prefer to see the real colour rather than the jazzy iPhone photo:

Toasted for breakfast - very nice flavour, "yum" said OH, "tasty - but a bit like a crumpet" (not too sure what this bit means!)

Would do again...

ph_kosel's picture
ph_kosel

Trying to match Acme Whole Wheat Walnut Bread

I liked the Whole Wheat Walnut Bread I got back in July from Acme Bread Company in Berkeley so much that I decided to try to duplicate it.  I posted photos of the Acme walnut loaf previously in my description of my July bread pilgrimage. 

I found a description of the bread and it's ingredients on acme's website: http://www.acmebread.com/bread/whole_wheat.

The recipe I came up with after a couple of attempts is as follows:

Whole Wheat Walnut Sourdough

Ingredients:

100g of whole wheat starter (containing 50g water, 25g whole wheat flour, and 25g white flour)

350g whole wheat flour

100g white bread flour

250g water

1.5 teaspoons salt

0.5 teaspoons diastatic malt powder

200g walnuts

Procedure:

After a first attempt was so dry the loaf cracked up the middle I concluded the walnuts soak up a lot of water.  Soaking them in advance in hot water and draining them in a collander before adding to the dough seems to overcome that.

I mixed the dough in a stand mixer, let stand until it rose, and baked it in a dutch oven, about 25 minutes at 450F, with the cover off in the last minutes for browning.. 

Result:

It came out pretty good, maybe not the equal of the Acme loaf but very tasty with butter or cheese!

^The loaf

^The crumb

^The cooled loaf in the cooker

Elagins's picture
Elagins

Book Release: Inside the Jewish Bakery


As many folks on the site know, long-time TFL community members Stan Ginsberg (Elagins) and Norm Berg (nbicomputers) have been working for a couple of years on a baking book. Their hard work is about to pay off as Inside the Jewish Bakery: Recipes and Memories from the Golden Age of Jewish Baking will be released on Camino Books October 15.

I was lucky enough to receive page proofs of Inside The Jewish Bakery and have to say it is tremendous. Norm's recipes collection from his years as a professional baker was already legendary on this site, but Stan and Norm together were able to put together a wonderful book that mixes in the cultural, historical, and religious contexts that make these recipes so precious.

Congratulations, Stan and Norm.

-Floyd

Inside the Jewish Bakery will be released October 15th and can be purchased on the Inside The Jewish Bakery website, on Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Barnes & Noble, or at your local bookseller.


As you can imagine, Stan and Norm are extremely busy with the book release, but as time and energy permit they've offered to answer anyone's questions about the recipes or the book. Just comment below.

varda's picture
varda

Cherry Focaccia

On Thursday we are invited to friends for a Rosh Hashanah dinner.   I asked what they wanted me to bring hoping they would say bread, but no ... dessert.   I'm not much of a dessert maker, but my year plus exposure to this site has begun to show me the possibilities.   I was well on my way to trying the Cherry Galette (or as Chef John puts it - Cherry Folditup) on Food Wishes.   Then I saw Floyd's grape foccacia and that got me to thinking.   Here's what I thought:

I started with Jim Lahey's Focaccia Dolce (page 144 of My Bread) but made many, many changes: 

Cherry Focaccia

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

KABF

150

 

 

 

Korean Flour

114

 

 

 

Water

132

 

 

 

Yeast

4

 

 

 

Salt

4

 

 

 

Sugar

50

 

 

 

Honey

12

 

 

 

Butter

30

2 T

 

 

Beaten egg

50

1 egg

 

 

Canned cherries

300

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

846

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mix flour (less 60g) water, yeast and autolyze for 30 minutes

Add flour, salt, sugar, honey, butter and egg

 

and mix for 5 minutes in stand mixer at medium speed

Stretch and fold in bowl after 20 minutes

 

Stretch and fold on counter after 20 minutes

 

brush off excess flour

 

 

 

Press into 1/2 inch thick disk

 

 

Transfer to lightly oiled baking sheet

 

 

Cover top with canned cherries in syrup

 

Proof for 1 hour 10 minutes

 

 

 

Bake at 400 on preheated stone for 15 minutes

 

Then decrease heat to 300 and bake for 30 minutes more

Until internal temperature reaches 205degF

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Now this was really delicious:

But my beta testers decided that the ratio of bread to topping is just too high:

Which got me to thinking that what this really needs is a filling - perhaps a sweet ricotta filling.   Does anyone know if one should, and if so how to make a filled focaccia?  Any other suggestions for how to make a tastier sweet for a sweet New Year?   Thank you!  -Varda

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