Hi

A while back I baked a raisin and rosemary loaf and it came out quite well, and the flavour was quite excellent. I have only been baking for a year now and from that year I have gather one opinion. I have still lots to learn.

So I am going back to basics. Just have one simple recipe and tweak that recipe to learn all the ins and outs of getting a decent loaf of bread. Don't get me wrong I will be baking with different recipes that I find here on fresh loaf and in Various books. My major aim though is to stick with one basic recipe and learn all the ins and outs. What temperature to bake at, when to add the salt, what temperature the water must be, how long to proof the loaf, what will happen if I have a high hydration loaf, etc

This is all in aid for me to learn and know when and where certain elements will happen. So that it will be less hit and miss if it going to be a good loaf and be more certain that a loaf will come out how it should.

The basic recipe I will be following is the same one from the lesson found on this website [LINK]

3 cups of all purpose flour

2 teaspoons of yeast

2 teaspoons of salt

1 1/8 cup water

In the loaf I will be showing today I have added about 1/4 cup of raisin and 2 Tablespoons of rosemary. I just love the combination of these two ingredients.

So now for some pictures:

As always start with the recipe:

Then the required utensils and ingredients [I do all my bread baking by hand as I do not have a mixer of yet]

Add the Yeast to the warm water to activate 

Add the flour, at this point I have held back the salt and let the flour and water and yeast sit for about 10min to Autolyse

I then add the salt and then Knead for 10 - 15 min, I then leave the dough to rest for about 15 min

While the dough is resting I cut up the fresh rosemary to be added to the dough

I then add the raisins and rosemary and knead for another 5min. I then tighten up my boule and let proof for about 45min. I then fold the dough and least proof for another 30min

After it has proofed, I then punch down and reshape into the final boule shape. 

I preheat my oven to 230c and place in my pizza stone to heat up as well. I also place an old roasting dish to water up at the bottom of the oven.

Once the loaf has been proofing for about an hour, I place the boule onto the pizza stone and slice in a cross. As I place boule in the oven I reduce the heat to 200c and though some ice blocks in the heated roasting dish to create steam.

I bake the loaf for about 15min then turn the loaf and back for a further 10 - 15min. 

and here is the end result:

and crumb

I am quite happy with how the loaf came out, the crust was nice and crispy and the flavour was good. I think the crumb is still a bit dense and spongy. This might be due to the salt being added later. Aslo it looks like it "blew out on one side, I am not sure why this happen, maybe my slicing was not up to par.

Next I will try this recipe without the raisin and rosemary and try it with out the autolysis and a different slicing pattern and see what will happen. Hopefully this will rectify some of the issues that I have had.

Please let me know what you think or if I must try something out at different stages of my bake.

Thanks

Please excuse any spelling or grammar mistakes, it is not my strongest strength.

I have also submitted this post to YeastSpotting : http://www.wildyeastblog.com/category/yeastspotting/

hi everyone - 

i have just recently come down with the baking bug and have been giving it a go with pizza dough, basic french bread and just began my sourdough starter.

one thing i am extremely confused about is the different yeasts that are out there and referred to in recipes.

when i begin to make my sourdough, i have been told in the 'goldrush' starter recipe that if i want a less dense loaf, i need to add 'instant' yeast.  am i right in saying that instant yeast is breadmaker yeast?

things are labelled a little different in the UK so that doesnt help me much either.

any feedback would be appreciated.

thanks,

tami

Hello:

I live in the Bay area in a little town called Benicia, California between Sacramento and San Francisco. Does anybody know where can I find fresh yeast cakes? The little cubes they used to sell in the stores many years ago? I know we all can find the dry yeast but I sure miss the fresh one. Any advice?

Thank you.

I have had the same breadmaker for 5 years.  It was my mom's before that so I don't know how old it is.  I discovered that if I go against the advice of the breadmaker handbook (add ingredients in order suggested which is wet, then dry, then form a well and put yeast in it) Instead I add warm fluid, yeast, sugar and wait 10 min then add the ingredients on top of that, I get a much lighter loaf.

That aside, I use my breadmaker ALL the time.  I make breads but my main use of it is as a dough mixer, since it is a handy place for rising the dough.  I make rolls, pepperoni rolls, cinammon rolls, pizza dough etc.

The last time I used it and it was functioning properly was Christmas.

This past weekend I made my pepperoni rolls.  I always use the same brand of yeast, which is labeled that it can be used in bread makers.  I noticed when I took the dough out of the breadmaker It didn't seem as fluffy as it should.  I thought maybe I messed it up by using bread flour instead of all purpose which is what the recipe called for.  So I set the dough aside and started again.  This time I used all purpose flour but only 2/3 since I ran out, the final 1/3 was bread flour.  Again it came out heavy and not as fluffy as normal.  At this point I took the first batch and tested a few balls in the oven to see if it would come out ok.  It seemed to bake alright, a bit heavy but it tasted all right.  So I made the pepperoni rolls despite the dough not being right.  The dough was not stretchy like normal, it was almost like sugar cookie dough but I could manipulate it anough to form a roll so I baked them.  Everyone raved about them but my husband and I knew they were off. 

So tonight I made a recipe for a loaf bread and it turned out very heavy.  It was a disappointment as well.  The top was sagging instead of being puffy like a normal loaf.

Two things were amiss that I can think of, when I looked in at the water years mixture before adding the flour I noticed that although the yeast was puffy looking I could still see the separate little pieces of yeast floating on top of the water.  The other thing to note was after the timer went off, I removed the loaf pan.  We ate dinner and when we were cleaning my husband noticed the machine was still hot.  He said the coil was red, when I looked it was a little red and black but still felt warm.  I unplugged it.  I have never looked before to know if this is normal or not. 

The yeast that I use is redstar active dry yeast.  The rolls were made from two different 3 packs.  Both labeled with a Sept 2013 expiration date.

The flour I use is always on the fresh side since I go through it quickly.

Any thoughts????????

Hello everyone!

I've been lurking on the site for about 18 months now (ever since I was given Peter Reinhart's Bread Bakers Apprentice and developed an obsession for artisan bread), and have finally plucked up the courage to ask for some advice from the wonderful community here.

I have been using a sourdough starter (he's called George) to make bread almost every day, and I'm generally really proud of my loaves.

But for the past few days I have been trying to branch out into regular yeast bread, and they just aren't coming out right. I just got a loaf out of the oven that went completely flat during baking- I don't think I have been getting enough surface tension into the dough while shaping them? This one was shaped freeform on a baking tray, but even when I do the final proof in a banneton my yeast  loaves tend to always go flat in the oven. I stretch and fold as I normally do for my sourdough loaves, and kneaded this one by hand for about 15 mins until the dough reached the windowpane stage. I shaped it according to Reinhart's instructions (usually I do my sourdoughs slightly differently- I flatten, fold the corners then the ends into the centre, bring one side in, then fold the other side over the top and pinch at the seam), and follwing his recipe I didn't slash the top as I usually would have.

The crumb structure is just passable, but the texture is too dense, and despite the shape it took too long to bake so the crust is quite hard and a bit thick imo. The strange thing is that I'm really happy with my enriched sweet yeast buns (lemon buns, Finnish cinnamon buns, cream buns)- they hold their shape well and have the right soft texture.

At a bit of a loss about where I'm going wrong- do sourdoughs and yeast loaves require a totally different technique? Or am I just making some stupid mistakes?

Thanks for your help. Rose

Note: I used Peter Reinhart's Multigrain Bread Extraordinaire recipe, but used a mixture of 300g wholemeal bread flour and 125g white bread flour (sorry for metric- I'm in Australia)

Recipe:

13.5 oz bread flour

4 oz milk

6 oz water

.38 oz salt

.33 oz instant yeast

1.5 oz brown sugar

1 oz cooked rice

1 oz honey

I am wondering if any folks on this site, have some tried and true low sodium around 100 -150 milligrams per serving recipes for bread that they liked to share.

I have a natural leven starter, but I am considering using this and some dried yeast in a bread to boost the process.

Is this possible or will one yeast kill off the other?

I read an article on here, where a gentlemen made a nice loaf with a big crumb using a wild yeast starter. I read the article but am still unsure how to do it. I've never made yeast starters before. I was hoping someone could help me understand the BBA process.

I am planning on making 3 breads for this thanksgiving. Streptikos Artos, a roman plaited bread, a Hapalos Artos, a roman soft bread, and a Boletinos Artos a roman mushroom bread. They are family recipes but very vauge on the yeast starter I know it is made from wheat, my plan was to try to use wheat berries to make a yeast starter that would end with a soft crumb bread. Expecially for the Hapalos Artos. Wich is supposed to be very soft and have a large crumb. My thinking was to be as traditional as possible, and I happen to have some good wheat berries, they are hulled though, so I am not sure they will contain yeast. I was planning on sprouting them. I do not want sour dough, I'd like a normal none sour yeast starter. Like you might find in commercial dry yeast. 

So far I've been very confused by BBA. I think it's a book but if it is I know I probably can't afford it. Can anyone explain to me the BBA thing and how to make large crumbs in my breads?

I am sorry but I cannot give out the recipes...my nana would choke me to death.

I hope this blogger doesn't mind, but I have to post a link to her pumpkin yeast bread - so cute, and so seasonal!  I'm off to buy pumpkin....

http://thefloursack.blogspot.com/2011/10/pumpkin-yeast-bread.html

I've been thinking about leavening and fermenting with bread making. The books I've been reading are Jeffrey Hamelman's Bread, Peter Reinhart's Whole grain breads and Artisan breads every day, and Chad Robertson's Tartine bread.

Both Peter Reinhart and Chad Robertson state that the sour flavor for a sourdough comes from the Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis bacteria, not from the yeast. The Lactobacillus produce lactic acid which makes the bread taste sour. This is what I call fermenting.

In a sourdough starter the wild yeast produces gas, and this is what I call leavening. Likewise, commercial yeasts provide leavening, except that they're faster than wild yeast and predictable.

When reading about bread making and pizza making, people use the word fermenting to describe part of the bread making process when I think what they really mean is a combination of both leavening and fermenting. It seems to me that fermenting is a catch-all word for a long rest period for the dough; for example, "bulk fermentation." Coming from the fermented vegetables background (for example, sour kraut, kimchi, and fermented pickles, where the vegetables are put in a brine solution for several weeks) I think of fermenting as the souring process from the Lactobacillus bacteria.

As an example of the terminology problem, in Hammelman's Bread, starting on page 13 he describes bulk fermentation but he mixes together the actions of leavening from the yeast producing gas, and fermentation saying that fermentation produces the superior flavors. He talks about the "production of organic acids during fermentation" without explaining how they're produced. He goes on to say that organic acids develop slowly and take hours before there are enough to benefit the bread's flavor. Nothing incorrect there, but things could be more carefully delineated and explained.

The same is also true for The Yeast Treatise at theartisan.net; fermentation and leavening are being conflated.

When describing bulk fermentation and the role of the temperature of the dough, one of the interesting things Hammelman says is that "the flavor components in the dough prefer temperatures lower than that required for maximum gas production." By "flavor components" I'm assuming he's talking about the Lactobacillus bacteria's activity. This no doubt explains how these no knead recipes work where you put the dough in the refrigerator for several days; the yeast activity is greatly slowed down while the Lactobacillus activity is slowed down to a lesser degree.

Back to the leavening side, if you're using a no-knead recipe where the bread sits for several hours and you do a stretch and fold periodically, you should do the stretch and fold gently, so that you don't squeeze out the gas that's in the dough from the yeast. This shows that leavening is occurring during the inaptly named bulk fermentation step.

For some people this may be hair splitting terminology. Before I retired I was a computer programmer and systems administrator and in that field it is crucial to always use the correct words (and not mash things together) when describing things. So I think this hair splitting is helpful for understanding the different things that are going on in the bread dough.

One new thing that I learned from Robertson's book is that for him a starter isn't just a starter; there are desirable starters and undesirable starters. An undesirable starter is one that's excessively sour. A desirable starter is one where the wild yeast is very active and the Lactobacillus is just getting up to speed, although he doesn't explain it that way and instead uses visual and olfactory clues (very bubbly and doesn't smell a lot).

Because the Lactobacillus are doing the fermenting and improving the bread's flavor and not the wild yeast, I think this is why bakers (for example, Peter Reinhart) get good results by using commercial yeast in addition to a sourdough starter. The starter is mainly seeding the dough with Lactobacillus bacteria for the fermentation and the commercial yeast provides the leavening. The starter may or may not have a good population of wild yeast, but in any event the commercial yeast produces a quicker and more predictable rise.

After thinking about this, one idea that I've had is that it should be possible to redesign the starter so that its recipe favors the Lactobacillus bacteria; the only yeast it needs is whatever is necessary to keep the Lactobacillus happy. Then, in the bread recipe, use commercial yeast for the leavening and use the starter for seeding the dough with Lactobacillus. I'm speculating that with the correct amounts of starter, yeast, and fermentation time that a good bread can be made. And probably without the long three day period that's currently necessary.

Rising times with commercial yeasts are undoubtedly well known and documented; for example, a percentage of yeast (using baker's percentages), a hydration range, and a temperature range will yield an appropriate rise in so many hours and minutes. Then, all that's needed is knowing how long of a fermentation period is needed for the Lactobacillus, how much Lactobacillus, at what temperature, etc. Matching the correct amount of yeast with the correct amount of Lactobacillus for a particular temperature, hydration, and period should yield a good loaf of bread.

All that's needed is for some enterprising food scientist to culture and dry Lactobacillus so that in addition to buying instant dry yeast we can also buy instant dry fermentation.