Is it possible to cold retard a biga or poolish for a day or two? I assume that if I did so, I could take the leavain out with a little more flexible timing and finish the loaves on a day of my choice (within the retardation time frame). Would the finished loaves be distinctly better or worse if I retarded only the levain?

I know I could retard the shaped loaves, but I'd rather finish the process all at once. Any experiences or opinions?

Thanks, folks.

GregS

I've only been baking bread for 2 months so still not sure of my bench techniques.  I also have this quirk of always wondering "what if...". (Might come from being a software beta tester in the past).  I have had some successes and some not so great outcomes, but am enjoying this process.  Having tried a number of different breads - ones with yeast, some with biga and yeast and some with natural starter- I find that I prefer the natural starter technique and like the crumb of the high hydration of the Tartine method. 

So - this is a picture of my very first bread.  This was the Tartine whole wheat bread.   On my very first bread I made a mistake:  I used KA white whole wheat instead of regular white flour with whole wheat.  And it came out great,though a little dense:

So my dilemma:  I work irregular hours and can't be around to do the Tartine bulk ferment with regular stretch and fold.  So I decided to try a retarded bulk ferment.  Here's my schedule:

Sunday am:  mixed levain
Sunday pm: mixed dough, did 1 hour bulk ferment with 3 stretch and folds.  Put in fridge at 9:30pm
Monday:  got home from work late.  Pulled from fridge at 6:30pm (21 hours!) let sit 1/2 hour, then completed the Tartine method of cutting and bench rest, stretch and fold on bench, then proof in bannetons.  This dough was very airy so proofed 2 hours then into the oven on a stone. 

Results:  Great flavor, not sourdoughy at all.  Chewy crust just the way I like it and lovely texture.  The downside:  ugly bread!  When I removed them from the bannetons they spread way out.  In the oven they had wonderful oven-spring, but the loaves did not hold their shape and became a bit morphed:

See the funny shape? They spread way out and didn't keep that nice rounded shape I had in my first loaves.  

I think I'm on to something.  I really like the flexibility of the retarded bulk fermentation, but how do I get the structure to hold the shape?  Any suggestions for my next experiment?

Thanks, Linda

Hi everyone... I recently picked up the Tartine Bread book, country artisan bread is my favorite and I'm working on working the process to my schedule.  Very simplified, with an active starter, this is how I breakdown the major steps in Chad Robertson's process:

1. Create leaven from starter
2. Mix dough and rest/autolyse, then add salt + some water
3. Bulk fermentation (3-4 hours at warm ambient temperature); during bulk fermentation do stretch-and-fold about ever 30 minutes for the first 2-3 hours
4. Divide, form into rounds, bench rest
5. Form final loaf shapes, proofing/final-rise (3-4 hours)
6. Bake, rest, eat

In trying to tailor this to my schedule, I understand that I can retard the final-rise in the fridge, then take it out of the fridge to warm up a little bit, and then into the oven for baking... but the book also suggests retarding during bulk fermentation.

I think in my ideal schedule, I'd like to mix the leaven on day-1 morning, and then begin bulk fermentation during the evening and let it go the night (to be followed with day-2 final-rise/proofing and baking).  I understand I can bulk-ferment with cooler water, or even stick the dough in the fridge to retard the process (what I'd likely do).  My question is where/when does the S&F fit into this?  Especially if I should do this every 30 minutes for a few hours... is the need minimized with the longer fermentation?  Do I need to do this just a few times before setting aside for colder longer fermentation?  S&F a few times, instead, before dividing into rounds and bench rest?

Thanks!!!

-Nico

I've been trying forever to get large, cavernous holes and a chewy texture in my whole wheat bread and I finally achieved success this week.  I tweaked a few things and I am curious as to which change made the real difference.  First, I added 1/4 tsp citric acid as opposed to the small pinch that I previously used.  I increased my retardation in the fridge from two hours at 38 degrees to 36 hours at 42 degrees (I use red star active dry).  I also increased my proofing time from 45 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes.  Finally, I increased my baking temperature to 425 with steam and.  I am just really interested in the science behind what I changed and how I can further take advantage of it.

I frequently need to retard my dough to fit baking into my schedule.  My question is, is it preferable to retard during the bulk fermentation stage, or to shape the loaves and retard during proofing.  Or, is it just a matter of taste?

Thanks!

I made Hamelman's Vermont Rye again the other day and it didn't really come out right.  After letting the levain sit for 15 hours, I made the final dough and threw it in the fridge for bulk fermentation overnight.  The next morning it had grown in size somewhat but was so soupy (somewhere between batter and dough) I couldn't handle it.  Furthermore, I had to add a ton of flour just to get it to the point where I could feel comfortable transferring it to a banneton.  I then retarded it for another 12 hours and baked it..  It came out alright, if a bit spongy.

Thoughts?

is it a bad idea to retard bulk fermentation?  Does this get in the way of the autolyse?

I am fairly new to baking, especially yeast breads, so I've joined this forum to meet people with the knowledge and experience to help me become a better baker.  I have taken an intro to baking class at culinary school, but I'm still a total novice at bread.

I plan to make a challah to serve on Monday, 9/29/08 for Rosh Hashanah.  The trouble I'm having is determining when to prep and bake my loaf.  I work all weekend and have an important event on Sunday night.  I have all day Friday, Saturday night (6:30-12:00), and about 1 hour very early Sunday morning free for baking.  If I prep and bake my challah on Friday, will it be good on Monday?  If I proof the dough on Saturday night and retard the shaped loaf in the fridge overnight, can I expect it to be ready to bake on Sunday morning?

I imagine many artisan home bakers nowadays have trouble finding a block of free time long enough to make bread, and I'm wondering how the rest of you manipulate the process to fit into your schedules.

Thank you,

Adam S.

Well I finally went ahead and signed up, I have been a reader for quite some time. I am a professional baker by trade, but love to mess around in my conventional kitchen as well. I needed some old dough for my next adventure, so I decided to make a nice straight yeasted bread. I also noticed that some of the bakers cover the loaves in the oven to simulate injected steam, so I decided to try it!

The formula for the dough is pretty simple and based on Joe Ortiz's Direct-Method Compagnon:

1/4 ounce active dry yeast

1 3/4 cups cold tap water

3 2/3 cups King Arthur Bread Flour

1 3/4 teaspoons salt

I mixed the yeast with a little bit of warm water and then poured the rest of the water into the wet mixture. After adding two cups of the flour, using my Kitchen Aid Artisan mixer, I mixed with the paddle on first speed for two minutes. Then added the salt and the rest of the flour, graduating to the hook. Then I mixed on first speed until the flour was somewhat incorporated, and then 12 - 15 minutes on 2nd speed. The doulgh was velvity and somewhat slack when it came off the mixer.

Next I cut three small pieces out and shaped them into little boules. I set all three boules in the fridge, in glass bowls, coverd with plastic wrap.

About four and a half hours later I grabbed two of the boules from the fridge (the other is my old dough for tomorrow), flattened and reshaped them, and then covered them with a cloth, on a floured board, for about 45 minutes to an hour.

I scored them and put them right on the stone in my oven at 450 degrees, covered by a large cooking pot. I prepped this "cover" by pouring hot water out of it right before I put it in the oven, being careful not to touch the boules with the cover. After 12 minutes I carefully removed the cover and then baked them for another 15-17 minutes.

So here is the result:

I am pretty happy with the look of the crust, the crumb is dense as I expected from such a short proof time. Overall it is dense and chewy but with zero taste:

Hello everyone... I haven't done this before but I'm actually planning to mix some dough in the evening, shaping it into small buns, and retarding it in my fridge. My question is, how long should the dough be retarded for... and could I actually put these buns straight from my fridge to my proofer....  or should it stay first at room temperature before proofing... OR .... does it go straight to my oven? And how about the temperature of my fridge? Sorry for all these questions... thank you!!!

In every bread book I've read, it's always suggested to retard dough during while its proofing (with the exception of pain a l'ancienne). Is there any reason one shouldn't do this during bulk fermentation? I imagine the yeast population is a lot smaller at that point, so It may not have as drastic of consequences. Also, since the cold makes dough much more elastic, it may have a negative effect on doughs that need folding. Has anyone tried this?