Hello

I was originally posting before looking for bread solutions for our hotel and happily came to a few conclusions as a result of the great help from this board, as well as a base recipe to work from to achieve the bread we need. I've tested things out (mostly testing the recipe + our new oven) in a slightly different way than the recipe was mainly intended and have come across mixed results that maybe a few people can fix up based on the details of the prep and baking. 

I'll post the recipe first followed by the results after (courtesy of Ford--Thanks!!):

WHITE BREAD (SUBSTITUTIONS FOR ♥)

For the poolish

3 cup (12.8 oz.) King Arthur Bread Flour
1/4 tspn. dry active yeast
3 cup (24.9 oz.) chlorine-free water

Poolish hydration: 188%. Note: for half a cup of the bread flour you may substitute half a cup of whole-wheat flour to modify the taste and texture.

In a large bowl, dissolve the yeast in a little of the water, then add the rest of the water and flour and mix enough to wet all of the flour. Cover the bowl with plastic wrap and let ferment for 8 to 18 hours at room temperature. If desired, the poolish may be refrigerated after 4 hours of fermentation.

For the dough

All of the poolish
2 1/8 cup (17.6 oz.) warm scalded milk (or skim ♥)
1 tspn. dry active yeast
10 1/4 cup (43.6 oz.) King Arthur Unbleached Bread Flour
1/4 cup (2 oz.) melted butter (or corn oil ♥)
1 1/2 Tbs. (1 oz.) salt
1/4 cup (2 oz.) of melted butter (or corn oil ♥) for greasing pans and brushing the loaves
water in a sprayer

Dough hydration: 69%.

Into the bowl containing the poolish, beat in the milk, the yeast, and about 6 cups of the flour, or as much as can be readily mixed by hand. Cover and let stand for half an hour or an hour (autolyse).

Mix in the 2 ounces melted butter, the salt, and as much of the rest of the flour as convenient. Scrape the dough on to a surface dusted with bread flour and thoroughly knead the dough, adding flour from the measured amount as necessary until the dough is smooth. For a more open structure, minimize the amount of flour. For a more dense structure, add additional flour. Allow the dough to rest for about ten minutes and then knead some more. This dough will be elastic and smooth. Place the dough into a greased bowl (about a teaspoon of corn oil) and cover to rise to double the volume, about an hour. Gently degas the dough by folding it on itself.

With melted butter, thoroughly brush three loaf pans (2 qt size, 9 5/8" x 5 1/2" x 2 3/4"). Divide the dough into three equal pieces (about 32 to 34 oz. each). Shape each piece to fit the bottom of each pan, puncturing the large bubbles. Place the loaves in the pans, seam side down. Brush the top of the loaves with melted butter. Cover the loaves with plastic wrap and let rise until the domes are about 2 inches above the tops of the pans. Bread benefits from retardation. (Place in the refrigerator when dough just reaches the top of the pan and remove next day and allow to come to room temperature.)

Preheat oven to 450°F with a pan of boiling water on the bottom shelf, with the middle shelf being reserved for the bread pans. A large broiler pan works well. When the dough has risen above the tops of the pans (about an hour), spray them with water, and immediately place them into the oven. Spray the loaves 2 additional times at 1 minute intervals to permit additional rising. After 15 minutes, reduce the oven temperature to 350°F. Bake until the interior loaf temperature reaches 195°F, an additional 45 minutes (about one hour total). The loaves should sound hollow when thumped on the bottom. Turn out on to a cooling rack, brush with melted butter, and cover with a damp paper towel until cooled. Bread may then be packaged and frozen.

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Firstly, the recipe stated that it would be for bread loaf pans, whereas we really get off on the idea of serving a more country-style oblong loaf. Our bread seems to not rise much after kneading - We let it rise in a huge metal bowl. Is it possible the large shape of the bowl would give off a less impressive first rise, or maybe just less noticeable? 

Also when we put it away in the fridge for a slowed-down proofing overnight the dough balls tend to get flatter and also the surface is somewhat bubbled. I let it come to room temp. for an hour or so and then start the baking, but there isn't much obvious oven spring and the flattened logs tend to then make super-flat loafs to the dimensions of 25x35x7 cm. The first time it rose a bit better but this time the only change is a touch more salt than originally added and I also added in a half-tablespoon of honey. The breads taste is absolutely wonderful, the crust is a perfect crisp thickness and the inside is moist, perhaps too moist. 

Any other questions or details I can answer to help you help me with this?

As many of you know, one of the high points of my week is baking with my Down syndrome daughter, Becky.  She's absolutely taken to baking like a fish to water and is my indispensable right hand gal. 

So here's what we made.

Yesterday (8/20/11), we baked her sandwich loaves -- 30% buckwheat in an enriched sandwich bread matrix. We love the flavor of buckwheat and try to use it whenever we can in breads, pancakes, waffles, etc.

Later on, for dinner, we had two pizzas, the first a routine pepperoni, and the second one was this beauty -- caramelized onions, mozzarella, fresh black mission figs from our tree, and this amazingly tangy Bulgarian feta cheese we got from our local Middle Eastern market.  The flour was the imported Pivetti 00 pizzeria flour, of course.

And then this morning, to go with the cream cheese, smoked salmon and whitefish salad, we made these New York Egg Bagels (recipe from Inside the Jewish Bakery):

All in all, a nice productive weekend.

Stan Ginsberg
www.nybakers.com

Hello, everyone

I try to bake sandwich bread but can't get the right texture. There are various sizes of holes in my bread and the structure of the sliced bread is quite loose, when I sliced the loaf, there are many little bread crumbs falling from the surface of the sliced bread. My recipe are 400g white strong flour, 240g water, half teaspoon of yeast, a little bit of salt and olive oil. I knead for about 15 to 20 minutes and the dough can pass windowpane test. First rise for 2 to 2 and a half hours and second rise for 1 hour.The bread texture I want is uniform little hole and the bread structure would be stronger than what I have now. Does any one have any idea how can I do it.

Looking forward to your replys.

Thank you!

Syd's white sandwich loaf http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/22464/white-sandwich-loaf has been on my to bake list since it was posted.   But those lists are ever growing and time is ever short and I'm ever distractable, so...  One of the distractions has been the yeast water craze.   As much as I pride myself on being above fashion, the simple fact is I'm not.   So when Daisy suggested that an enriched bread might be a good candidate for yeast water, I decided to kill two birds with one stone and try Syd's loaf with yeast water.   The problem with converting a recipe before trying it first, is one has (I have) no idea what one is (I am) doing, so I had a failure or three.    Then I decided to bake two loaves side by side - one Syd's original formula and the other, his formula converted to yeast water.    The loaf pictured in the first four photos is made with Syd's original formula scaled down by 3/4.   The only deviation is that I did not use ascorbic acid.   

The resulting bread is probably the most feathery light I have ever made.   The taste is mild but delicious.    Unfortunately the pictures can barely capture the wonderful taste and texture of this bread.    My recommendation - if you have any taste at all for white bread, go to Syd's original post and bake it.  

For the second loaf, I converted to yeast water by replacing all of the water in the poolish with yeast water and omitting the yeast.    I also omitted the yeast from the final dough.   Otherwise I followed exactly the same formula, again without the ascorbic acid.   After mixing both batches of dough this morning I had to go out for a few hours, so I refrigerated both bowls.    When I got back, the yeast version had already doubled, while there appeared to be no change to the yeast water one.    I shaped the yeast one and placed in a bread pan to proof, and stretched and folded the yeast water dough and let it bulk ferment on the counter.    Before long (I wasn't watching the clock) the yeast loaf had risen an inch above the pan so I baked it, and then shaped and proofed the yeast water loaf.   By the time the yeast water loaf was ready to go in, it hadn't even cleared the pan top.   But it was softening so I decided to bake it.   In the oven it grew to around 80% of the volume of the yeast version.   

After tasting the original, I was ready to hate the yeast water version, but surprise, surprise, there was nothing to hate.   While the yeast water loaf wasn't as feathery light as the original, and really the taste was completely different, it was every bit as delicious as the first - just a different style of bread.   It's hard to come up with exactly the right words, but the yeast water loaf had a tiny bit of a tang, and a more complex flavor in a somewhat denser (not dense, just denser) bread.   The picture below is of both loaves (yeast water on the bottom) and below that two shots of the yeast water crumb.   I will be hard put to decide which one of these to make next time.   Such dilemmas are fun to have.   Thank you Syd, for posting your fabulous and delicious formula.

I'm back to basic white bread (well, with a little little tweak). It was the first bread I ever made a little over a year ago, from Peter Reinhart's BBA (my first bread making book). I made this bread again with two motivations, One was that I wanted to experiment with soy flour in bread and it would be better to do it with simple basic recipe. The other was that I wanted to experiment making super soft sandwich bread by implementing intensive kneading as per  txfarmer’s blog on the issue. 

PR recipe produced simple and great tasting bread. I still remember that I thought it was the best bread ever when I first had a bite. Not that I'm a good baker, freshly baked bread will taste great, no matter what. And it was even more so, when it was your first you-made bread, fresh out of the oven. It was an absolute joy and gave such a sense of satisfaction. 

One year past, same recipe with tweaks of sourdough starter, soy flour (5%) and intensive kneading (to produce soft and tender crumb), this time, the bread tasted even better. So much better, in fact. Soy flour added mild sweet nutty flavour and creamier crumbs. Incorporating sourdough starter in the recipe also gave more flavour to the bread. Intensive kneading also delivered super soft crumb. The bread was so soft, flavoursome, sweet, creamy and has fantastic aroma (the aroma from the baking stayed in my house for whole day, I’m not joking). It was so yummy that I could just eat the bread on itself, without any butter or spread. The bread reminded me of the soft bread from our local bakery, that I had when I was a kid living in Bangkok.

The bread also worked well with the pea and ham soup for our Winter night (it has been really cold in Melbourne, Australia this week. It is the coldest June in years). 

Full post and recipe is here. 

Sue

http://youcandoitathome.blogspot.com

In North America, sweet potatoes or yams are traditionally harvested and eaten in the fall of the year.  Sweet potatoes are root vegetables and, although they look very much like regular potatoes, have certain qualities that make them ideal for bread. They are sweet of course, hence the name. More importantly, they are orange in color something that adds a wonderful, delicate shade to the bread.

They are to be found everywhere in the world in many shapes and sizes. In Israel we have a member of this family, locally called batata, (stress on the second syllable) an Arabic word for potato.  It is both similar in texture and bright orange just like the North American sweet potato. It can be used interchangeably for all recipes that call for sweet potato. I have even used it to make a great sweet potato pie and candied yams.

This bread is a soft, delicate sandwich bread that is a gentle orange color. It is not the screechy, bright orange of Halloween, but rather it takes on a subdued, understated hue. It is perfect for sandwiches that have drier contents (meat and/or cheese) but probably would not be appropriate for wetter ingredients (like sauces and gravies). Mostly, it's delicious and perfect for breakfast. Makes great toast, too, and tastes great with butter or jam.

Here's What You'll Need:
for the starter (poolish):
200g (1 3/8 cup) AP flour
200g (3/4 cup + 1 1/5 Tbs) warm water
1 tsp. yeast

for the dough:
400g poolish
1 cup (250ml) warm water
10g yeast (2 tsp.)
800g (about 3 1/2 cups) AP flour
1 1/2 tsp. salt
1/4 cup olive oil
2 sweet potatoes, baked until soft and mashed
1 Tbs. coarsely chopped rosemary

Here's What You'll Need to Do:
1. Make the poolish by  mixing the ingredients together. Let it sit, covered, at room temperature for about 3 hours. Place in the refrigerator overnight.

2. Peel and mash the baked sweet potatoes. You can bake them with the rosemary if you wish to intensify the flavor.
3. Knead together all the ingredients, including the poolish to make a slightly sticky dough. Knead it until it is smooth, then form it into a ball

 and place the dough in an oiled bowl, covered, to rise. Let the dough rise until doubled, in a warm place. This will take about 1 1/2 to 2 hours.
4. De-gas the dough as little as possible when handling. Form the dough into 2 round loaves, or torpedo shape or even rolls. Cover with a towel for a final rise, about 45 minutes.

5. Bake at 350F (175C) for about 40 minutes for loaves, or about 20 minutes for rolls. Cool on a rack.

I have not had time to run any tests, but thought I would throw out the question.

Is reconstituted dry milk any better than milk?

Is it better to use dry milk powder mixed straight into the flour?

Should I scald the reconstituted dry milk to break down the yeast inhibiting enzymes (I forget the name at the moment) before baking?

Has anyone used King Arthur's Baking Dry Milk? How is it?

These are general questions and anyone with experience using these variables and knowing the benefits of each, I would graetly appreciate anything you can offer.

Cheers!

I am in search of a very good sandwich bread that is made using a sourdough starter.  I am looking for something that perferably has whole wheat in it (I grind my own wheat), and has the flavors found in european artisian breads.  With the sour flavor not coming through very much.  Any help would be great. 

Thank you,

Sarah

Procrastinator's Sandwich Bread: Take 2

Continued from Procrastinator's Sandwich Bread.

So, while I was impressed with the taste and texture of the previous PSB, I still don't like the idea of all white bread. I grew up on white bread; my mother bought sandwich loaves from the grocery store like most busy moms, especially since she had little talent in yeasted baking, and my grandfather's specialty was potato bread. And while tasty, and surely better than the store-bought loaves, it still wasn't any paragon of nutrition. It took me a long time to like the taste of whole grains, but now I seemed to have flipped the other way... I don't really like white bread. I'll tolerate it, but I prefer whole grain.

And to make it even more difficult, I don't really like wheat -- at least, by itself. I find it bitter, and frankly, I don't do bitter. But I love rye, and barley, and corn, and oats, and... well, you get the picture. I actually really like white wheat, because of its less-bitter taste, but it's much harder to find for a good price. Red wheat is plentiful and cheap, so I just find it easier to mix it with other grains, or sweeten it, etc. Even white wheat has a bold flavor, though. You notice it right away. This isn't a bad thing, but it isn't what I wanted in this bread. I wanted subtle, behind-the-scenes flavor. The kind that makes you go, "Hmm, what is this? This is different. This is good."

So I chose barley. Mild, slightly sweet, and a perfect backdrop for the flax already in the recipe. This time, I chose to use only 1 cup of barley flour and 4 cups of bread flour. I need to know the threshold of the bread, when it goes from just enough whole grains to too much. I intend to gradually step up the amount of barley flour I use until I find it negatively affects the texture, flavor, and/or ease of use of the bread. I don't want to have to coddle this bread because it has whole grains. If I have to coddle it, I won't make it regularly. And that sort of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

I show the recipe below for one loaf, though I doubled it this time around and made two loaves. Honestly, this dough is so easy to handle even by hand, I would make massive batches at once, but I only have one oven and two loaf pans. I'm sure if you scaled this out and made a baker's dozen it wouldn't be much more work than it is for one. I scaled back the yeast some this time, to see if it still rose quickly -- I noted little difference in rise times but a big difference in taste. Also, I used half buttermilk, half 1% milk this time around, and sprinkled with barley flakes instead of the 7-grain cereal. Very tasty! Though the barley flakes like to fall off some...

Procrastinator's Sandwich Bread: Barley Edition

• .25c butter
• 1c 1% milk
• 1c reduced fat buttermilk
• 2tbsp granulated sugar
• 2tsp kosher salt
• 4c bread flour
• 1c barley flour
• 1tbsp instant yeast
• 2tbsp vital wheat gluten
• 2tbsp ground flax seed
• more milk for brushing
• 1-2tbsp barley flakes (or topping of choice)

1. Melt butter in microwave in a large measuring cup or bowl. (1 min on HIGH for me.)
2. Add milk and heat to lukewarm. (1 more min on HIGH for me.)
3. Add sugar and salt and stir to dissolve.
4. Combine flours, yeast, gluten, and flax in a large bowl/the bowl of a stand mixer.
5. Add liquid and mix to "shaggy mass" stage.
6. Knead by hand or mixer until elastic. Dough will NOT clean bowl or form a ball; this is fine.
7. Let rise until double, about 35 mins.
8. Shape into a loaf, and put in greased 9x5in pan.
9. Preheat oven to 350F; let dough rise 25-30 mins.
10. Brush with milk and sprinkle barley flakes on top, then score loaf as desired. (I always do mine diagonally, corner to corner.)
11. Bake for 25 mins uncovered, with steam, then cover with foil and bake another 20-35 mins, until internal temp is 190F.

I had some fun creating bread that was filled with chocolate.   Adapted from Reinhart's Soft Sandwich Bread in Artisan Breads Every Day.  It turned out a little dry,  but overall, I like the chocolaty taste.  

Read the detailed blog here.