So, I admit it. I love to cook and never really did much baking. Had a bread machine and it was little used. Saw one of the 'no-knead' sites and was intrigued. Started reading (and of course buying 'stuff.') Tried Anis Bouabsa's recipe on this site for baguettes and nailed it. Been bubbling a starter for a couple of weeks and the first try (no-knead) was terrible; flat and ugly though 'tasty.'One problem has been the whole "time" thing; 18 or 21 hours is just too much; add an hour to warm a cold pate and it is worse.  Ever the tinkerer, I boiled down a few ideas and my wife, daughter of a Maitre Cuisinier de France, told me at lunch, "well, you hit it this time." Last one to try today, but I had to admit that I nailed it. So, for those who might be interested, my 'cheater' sourdough, semi-no-touch, overnight and in time for kids lunches bread:

Before bed, toss the following into the Kitchenaid with the dough hook:

1/2 cup +1T sourdough starter (mine's virulent)

13 oz bread flour (KA)

3 oz white whole wheat flour (KA)

1T vital wheat gluten

1.25 cups water

1.25 t salt

mix on low-med until combined and it forms a ball

turn mixer to medium for 30 seconds more

20 minutes rest

5 seconds at low+1 speed

20 minute rest

5 seconds at low+1 speed

20 minute rest

5 seconds at low +1 speed

dump into a bowl, cover with plastic, leave overnight in a warmish place

6AM or so:

scrape dough onto floured surface

spread gently into a rectangle, using as little flour as possible

fold over in 1/3rds,(letter folds)

fold over itself in half

rest 20 minutes

gather dough into a rough ball and place into prepared proofing basket

into a warm place for 2 hour rise

preheat oven and LaCloche/LeCreuset on top of stone, to 500 degrees (at least 1/2 hour)

gently invert risen dough into LaCloche/LeCreuset, place lid on top, and bake 45 minutes at 500

remove lid, reduce temp to 450 and bake 15 minutes

remove bread to cooling rack for an hour.

You could probably cut proofing time short by 1/2 hour and still have enough time to cool, cut, make sandwiches, and make the kids' bus. Alternatively, you could simply start earlier the night before. For me, the times work. The slightly shorter initial ferment is more than compensated for by using twice the normal amount of starter. The machine 'folds' combined with the extra gluten do wonders for the crumb and the relatively high moisture content/high temp/LaCloche causes an intense oven spring. The taste is magnificent, the crust is a nice compromise between crisp and chewy.  

In most things I do, I tend to let the machines do my work. Here, the Kitchenaid was exactly what I needed. I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts.

Christopher

I currently have a wonderful starter that originated from the pineapple juice based starter recipe and would like to find some bread recipes using it in conjunction with sour cream as an ingredient.  I've always liked the texture I get when I use sour cream in recipes.  Anybody have suggestions?  Any kind of bread will do--savory, sweet or plain.  Thanks!

Hi:  I am using the recipe from sourdough lady.  On day 4 I disgarded all but 1/4 cup and added white flour and water.  The next day it is bubbling and happy.  Today is day 5 and I did the same thing. Hopefully it will bubble again.

My question is:  Do I do this every day?  When does it go into the fridge and do I disgard it all but 1/4 of a cup everyday when it is in the fridge and add the flour and water?

My next question is:  when can I use it?

Thanks!

Lucy

I think I need help. While attempting my very first starter, I used the San Francisco Starter recipe by Barnard Clayton from his 30 something year old book, The Complete Book of Breads.  I used one cup of whole grain flour and one cup of fat free milk. I originally put it in a ziploc bag, and it bubbled for one day. Then I moved it to a glass jar and it continued to bubble.  On day 3 I moved it to a much larger glass container with a sheet of plastic wrap held by a rubber band, and it didn't bubble so much. On day 3 I also added half a cup of whole grain and half a cup of tepid milk. All I saw later that evening was a thin layer of an almost clear liquid, and I noticed a slight sour smell. No bubbling. Day four, same thing. On day four I put less than a pinch of sugar, but nothing happened. Today is day five, and same thing--clear layer of liquid, no more bubbling, same slight sour smell. It is NOT pink--it looks like the color of tahini.  I have kept it at a constant temperature of about 80 degrees. I have stirred it everyday with a wooden spoon, and I have opened the plastic wrap to let out gasses. No more bubbling. How do I know if my starter is OK? Should I pitch it and start another one using a different liquid?  I have seen so many blogs and starter recipes which use liquids other than milk, but Bernard Clayton's starter recipe is the only one I have seen using milk. Is there something wrong with using milk? Just to be clear, I want to make sourdough French bread, and I want it to be from scratch. I do not want to use any active dry yeast. All I have been doing for the past week is searching for starter recipes & sourdough bread recipes, and reading them, and thinking about them, and worrying about my starter. I feel like a drug addict who has just discovered crack. I have not turned on my stove or oven for fear that too much heat will kill the starter. However, I have kept my warming lamp on.

Hi again! 

It's me, the newbie that experienced existential angst over Carl's starter a couple of months ago :)

The starter, fed with AP, was doing pretty well and made a great loaf of JMonkey's 100% WW bread.  Then I realized that I had cut out most refined (read:white) products out of my life and had been trying to eat only whole grains, so I decided to convert my starter into WW. (30g starter:30g WW:30g water)

I haven't made bread with it since the conversion (it's been about a month and I'm trying to get him stronger as he takes about 12 hours to double) but I'm now browsing the forums and people are saying how much more difficult it is to maintain, how it's much more sour, and how WW may contaminate a starter, etc.  What are your thoughts on this?  I know I will be making breads with a percentage of bread flour or AP flour anyway such as brioche, so does it make more sense to maintain a white starter?  Is it possible to convert a WW starter to white?

Let the debates begin!

Hello all !! great web site and a great forum .. very very helpfull .

so . i got my sourdough up and running , but how much of it should i use ?

i usually make 500 g flour   and use about 8 g of dry yeast  . how much sourdough  in grams should

i use ? my sourdough is 100% hydration by the way.

thanks for the help

I have always wanted to make my own sourdough starter and sourdough bread.  Well, I finally got my act together a couple of weeks ago and started my started using sourdolady's guidance at:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/233/wild-yeast-sourdough-starter

Though I did use apple cider instead of pineapple juice.  It's what I had available.  I never had a nonbubbly day with the starter and started getting good yeasty smells in about 4 days.

After two weeks of dumping and feeding I started building up the volume.  I used sourdolady's recipe at:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/blog/sourdolady

Such wonderful dough to work! 

I forgot to get pictures of the work in progress, but here are the results.

Hot from the oven and brushed with butter.

The slashes that I almost forgot to do.  Had the bread in the oven and was ready to shut the door.  Two seconds of panic digging through my knife drawer looking for something to use for slashing.  Ended up using a chef's knife.  Seems I do better when I don't plan the slashes!

So hard to wait for the bread to cool!  So soft and tender.  And a great crust.

And dinner with the bread.  Taco soup, sourdough bread and apple cider.  And the development of the taste was amazing even after just a couple of hours, wow!

Time to start increasing the starter again, because those two loafs are not going to last long.  I now have one shelf in my refrigerator permanently empty waiting for trays of bread dough.

For some reason my starter smells like nail polish remover instead of sourdough.  Any idea what caused it or how to correct it?  I hope I can salvage it.

I use a 45:50:100 s:w:f ratio to feed it.

Friends,

Last night, I baked a few loaves of Pain au Levain w/ Whole Wheat Flour from Hamelman's Bread book. It has a wonderful tang that is on the verge of being "too much," which I really like. There's only one problem: the crust is quite tough. Unlike previous loaves, there isn't any "give" to the crust. When I cut into it, crumbs fly everywhere. It's almost difficult to eat.

Let me talk about the process, since there are a few things I did differently that might be a factor.

First, the formula calls for a stiff levain build made with 95% bread flour and 6.5 % rye flour. I decided to use 95% whole wheat flour to see how it would affect the flavor. In the final dough, I replaced an equal portion of the WW flour with bread flour so that the overall formula wouldn't change. 

Second, I used a 50/50 mixture of White Lilly Bread Flour (13% protein) and Pillsbury Unbleached All Purpose (9% protein). I did the math, and this closely approximates the 11.5% protein that Hamelman recommends (I didn't have any King Arthur AP on hand). I suspect that the BF used red spring wheat and the AP flour used a blend of soft and hard winter, but that's just conjecture. 

Third, I did the final fermentation for 20 hours in the refrigerator at 40 degrees. I typically do this for 6 hours, but the schedule worked out such that I needed 20. Hamelman says you can retard "up to" 18 hours at 42 degrees. I let the loaves sit covered at room temp while the oven heated.

Last, I baked for 55 minutes at 440 degrees. Hamelman suggests 40-45 minutes. I chose to bake longer because the crust was a little pale.

Based on this information, is there any reason the crust turned out so hard? I suspect that the extra baking time had something to do with it, but I have also read that lower protein AP flour gives a crispier crust. Or, perhaps the extra time in the refrigerator have dried out the loaves slightly? (I wrap the couche in plastic, but the towel had clearly absorbed some of the water from the dough). 

Thanks for reading through this. I'm looking forward to hearing what the collective wisdom of the internet has to say.

Eric

Is there any way to generalize what happens to a hearth bread or sourdough when you either increase or decrease the hydration rate? My understanding is that a highly hydrated dough produces a more open crumb.  Does that mean those loaves have to be baked longer than a lower hydration loaf using the same method and ingredients?  What's the lowest hydration level you could have and still expect to have a tender and delicate crumb in a sourdough?

Thanks in advance