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blackbird's picture

This is a blog entry of a rye sandwich loaf.  Rye content is only one-third cup rye and two and two-thirds cup white bread flour.  My blog on a little rye is the opposite.

I'm using Eric's sandwich rye recipe to make larger loaves for sandwiches of normal size.  I have to make some changes due to my lack of experience and personal preference.  The recipe is a good starting point for me and I'll try to get closer to the original.  

I am not using any kind of starter at this point although I hope to improve as I have no real experience with starters. 

Overnight cold fermentation in the fridge is the main technique plus stretch and fold kneading which I'm learning.  I've learned my oven bakes unevenly so I'll rotate the loaf on the next bake.  My first loaf had caraway seeds.   Great oven spring.

I've obtained a spray bottle, a better thermometer instead of the large meat thermometer I've been using, and a dough scraper for my 2nd loaf of this type.  All nice to use.  I'm learning and will soon make my 2nd sandwich loaf.



proth5's picture

 For the few of you following this adventure in milling, I thought I would post the baked results.  I used my standard baguette formula which is posted elsewhere on this site, but briefly is all levain, 65% hydration with 15% of the flour pre-fermented with an inoculation rate of 25%.  This is a formula that I have been baking every week for years with fairly consistent results.  My standard baguettes are pictured elsewhere in my blog.

 The flour used for this bake was the first batch, milled on 25 February and has been aging in an uncovered plastic container since then.  It was about 70% extraction and contained very fine flecks of bran.  Since I could not get a Falling Number measurement on this flour, I did not attempt to correct the Falling Number by malting the flour.  Details on the milling process are posted in earlier blog entries.

 My first observation is that the levain build was somewhat different than that made at the same time with commercial flour.  I would have to say that it was more fluid than the commercial flour, and matured with larger bubbles.

 Although I was attempting to go strictly "by the numbers," after the autolyse phase the dough was very stiff and I added additional water.  The dough developed "pretty much like" my normal dough after that, and bulk fermented "about like you'd expect."  The color of the dough was distinctly more grey than normal, probably reflecting a higher ash content in the flour (since it did contain some bran.)

 After dividing, I shaped the dough as normal.  It was at this phase that it felt "different."  I would describe it as being just slightly less elastic than my normal dough.

The final ferment had a duration of one hour - which is the standard length for this formula's final ferment.  I felt that the dough was somewhat under "proofed" but wanted to try to keep the process as close to "by the numbers" as possible, so I went ahead to scoring and baking.

 The crumb was a bit tight - probably reflecting my skimping on the final ferment or the lack of malt - but not horribly so.  The taste is quite nice.  I'm not good at the "notes of grass" sort of language, but it tasted "more" than my normal loaf.  A bit more there there, as it were.  Again, it may not show well in the pictures, but the crumb color was a bit deeper than my normal loaf.

 The results are pictured below.  Despite all the good advice on these pages - photography continues to elude me, but I gave it my best shot (as it were.)

Hand Milled Baguette Crust

Hand Milled Baguette Crumb



Would I hand mill this flour again?  I might. It does not have nearly the taste impact of fresh milling a whole wheat or a near whole wheat flour, but it is a nice flour with nice baking results.  Next time I might add just a pinchlette of diastatic malt.

I will say that I normally dust my peel lightly with flour and this particular flour - being a bit more "sandy" than commercial flour makes a great flour for dusting the peel.

I ate a half baguette as I typed this up.  I usually have pretty good self control around my normal baguettes.  I'm guessing this one WAS pretty darn tasty.

Hope this is of some interest to those of you contemplating advanced home milling.  I still have my second batch of "pure white" flour to bake - hopefully next week.

Happy Milling!

Jw's picture

mixed breadbaking experiences, this weekend. On the positive sides: I was able to produce 'a lot of bread' and consume most of it (since we had visitors). In the picture: on the left sourdough from a few weeks starter (top), the others below were 'quick sourdough', I used a dried powder I bought in the store. The starter wins it by far with taste, according to the expert taster at home. In the middle simple buns, on the right pain d'ancienne (front) and plain bread.

In this crosssection picture you can see the better sourdough, the quick sourdough and the plainbread.

As for the tigerbread: that is clearly a trick I still have to master.
The first rise needs to be shorter and I have to wait with putting the paste on until the last ten minutes.

And since I saw a few pictures with dogso n TFL, : here is our faithfull bystander, her name is Bowie.
This dog went to the zoo (!) last saturday, and was ready to chase the real tigers there.

Happy baking. Cheers, Jw.


loniluna's picture

We think it's pretty funny that the slice looks like it's hovering over the whole pie. This probably isn't your average, 21-year-old couple's Saturday night meal. This is a from-scratch, red onion, spinach, fresh mozz and feta pizza on a garlic herb crust. We've been at this pizza-making deal since fall, making one about once a week, and this was - by far - the best one we've ever made.

A strange thing happened at the cheese counter. I asked for the fresh mozzarella, pointing to the large, white cheese balls.

"You guys making pizza?" the cheese counter guy asked.

After confirming in the positive, he said, "I suggest you get the smaller ones. I just throw those on my pizzas."

We glanced at each other and both inwardly rolled our eyes. We both wanted to reply, "We're making pizza from scratch. Surely 30 seconds of slicing a soft cheese isn't going to exhaust us."

And though the pizza was $10 worth of ingredients (a good chunk on a student's budget), it was well worth it. Can't wait for leftovers today.

The only critique I have of our pizza would be the crust. It's a bit bready, and probably a little...amateur, I guess. I'm looking for a bubblier, crunchier-type crust. If anyone has any suggestions or a recipe to direct me to, it'd be much appreciated.

And, of course, if you want the recipe, I'd be more than happy to provide it.




SylviaH's picture

J.H. Bread Book recipe for Baguettes with Poolish.  I made a morning poolish and baked this evening baguettes and rolls.  I used KA AP flour.  The Baguettes were so light and the rolls are delicious!


These rolls are great alone or for light!

Recipe made 3 small, medium and large Baguettes and half dozen medium Rolls. 


gothicgirl's picture

My starter, let's call him Ol' Yeasty, is a week old and I decided to make a loaf of bread to celebrate!

He has been quite active, and despite his youth and inexperience, I decided to let him have a go.  We made a simple boule, Ol' Yeasty and I.

Not the best oven-spring, not the best crumb, but it was a wonderful first effort for the young fellow, and there was a decided sour note to the bread.  I do like that!

I am looking forward to my next try. 

vincent's picture




3 cups all purpose flour
1 1/2 teaspoons salt
1 Tablespoon sugar or honey
1 tsp instant yeast
1 1/4 to 1 1/2 cups water, - room temperature
2 tablespoons olive oil, vegetable oil, butter, or shortening


Using the food processor, mix the yeast in with the flour, salt, and sugar. Pulse to mix.

Add the olive oil and 1 1/4 cup water and pulse until all of the ingredients form a ball. If some of the flour will not stick to the ball, add more water (I did fine with 1 1/4 cup).

Once all of the ingredients form a ball, place the ball on a work surface, such as a cutting board, and knead the dough for approximately 10 minutes (or until your hands get tired).

When you are done kneading the dough, place it in a bowl that has been lightly coated with oil.
Form a ball out of the dough and place it into the bowl, rolling the ball of dough around in the bowl so that it has a light coat of oil on all sides. Cover the bowl with plastic wrap or a damp kitchen towel and set aside to rise until it has doubled in size, approximately 90 minutes.

When it has doubled in size, punch the dough down to release some of the trapped gases and divide it into 8 pieces.

Roll each piece into a ball, cover the balls with a damp kitchen towel, and let them rest for 20 minutes.(This step allows the dough to relax so that it'll be easier to shape.)

After the dough has relaxed for 20 minutes, spread a light coating of flour on a work surface and place one of the balls of dough there. Sprinkle a little bit of flour on top of the dough and use a rolling pin or your hands to stretch and flatten the dough. You should be able to roll it out to between 1/8 and 1/4 inch thick. If the dough does not stretch sufficiently you can cover it with the damp towel and let it rest 5 to 10 minutes before trying again.

streatching dough untill it is a thin layer--then fold it up-- can be round,oblong ;sqare, rectangle or any shape---need not be an expert-that is know how to throw the dough around---important--do not add any oil while making the dough--keep dough for at least 3hours-so that dough wii become easily streatchable--use plain

Spray a light mist of water onto your baking fan surface then put the roti into the pan when you see a little bubbles (roti) then flip the other side then press the bubble by spoon gently press up and down to make big bubble if not flip again the other side and gently press again the bubble when it become a little brownie it's done put another roti

They should be baked through and puffy after 3  or less minutes. 


vincent's picture

to all  baker bloggers

my new recipe

Plain Chinese Steamed Buns
(Makes 12 buns)

Sponge Starter:
1/3 cup lukewarm water
1/3 cup all-purpose flour
1 tablespoon active dry yeast
2 teaspoon sugar
1 1/2 cups all-purpose flour (for lighter texture use 3/4 cup all-purpose flour plus 3/4 cup cake flour)
2 teaspoons baking powder, divided
1/2 teaspoon salt
2 1/2 tablespoons sugar
1 tablespoon of vegetable oil (or melted lard or vegetable shortening)
Enough lukewarm water to create a smooth dough, approximately 1/2 cup

You'll also need:
A steamer
12 3"x3" waxed paper square


·  In a large mixing bowl, mix together all the sponge ingredients and let it stand about 30 minutes (up to 2 hours)

·  Once the sponge is ready (it should puff up and have holes on the surface), add the flour, 1 teaspoon of baking powder, salt, sugar, and oil to the sponge bowl.

·  While your dominant hand is stirring the dough, add lukewarm water to the mixture a little bit at a time with your non-dominant hand. (Do I have to be this specific about the hand thing?) The moment you feel you can get a smooth dough that wipes the bowl almost clean, stop adding water.

·  Knead the dough right in the bowl, if you don't want to clean your kitchen counter afterwards. But if you need room to groove, feel free to dump the dough onto a large surface and let go of all your kneading inhibitions.

·  Once you have a smooth, satiny dough (after about 3-4 minutes), put the dough back into the mixing bowl, if you took it out, and cover tightly with a piece of plastic wrap. Let it rise for 3 hours in a warm spot.

·  You have three hours to get ready, so prepare your steamer and make the waxed paper squares.

·  After three hours, sprinkle the remaining 1 teaspoon of baking powder all over the surface of the dough and knead it in, lightly but well.

·  Roll the dough into a long log and cut into 12 equal pieces. Shape each piece into a ball by pinching and stretching. Place each dough ball, seams-side down, on a piece of waxed paper.

·  Cover the buns with a kitchen towel and let them rise once more for 30 minutes to an hour. You know the buns are ready when they have puffed up and the tops look smooth and taut.

·  Gently lower the buns into the steamer, positioning them in such a way that allows for expansion. They should not touch each other or the sides of the steamer.

·  Steam the buns for 10 minutes. Remove the buns from the steamer and let them cool under a kitchen towel.


·  Make sure you don't over-hydrate your dough. It's better to err on adding too little water as you can always add more. Adding too much water will pretty much ruin the whole thing. You could try to salvage the dough by adding more flour, but that would just cause the dough to be tough. It's not possible to prescribe an exact amount of water as this has to do with the particular brand(s) of your flour and the moisture in the air on the day you make these buns.

·  Make sure the water is lukewarm, about 85 degrees F.

·  Make sure the yeast isn't too old.

·  Make sure the piece of plastic wrap covers the entire opening of the dough bowl. Exposure to air will cause the dough to develop a tough skin on the surface.

·  Make sure you leave the dough to rise in a warm spot.

·  After the first rise, work the baking powder into the dough thoroughly. This will help the finished buns to have a smooth surface.

·  Make sure the kitchen towel covers all the buns during the second rising.

·  When you lower the buns into the steamer, grab onto the corners of the waxed paper squares, not directly on the buns as you will deflate them.

·  Do not steam over high heat. Make sure the water is gently boiling over medium heat when the buns go in. Make sure the bottoms of the buns do not touch the water.

·  Don't let the moisture collected on the lid of your steamer drop on the buns.


·  Yes, one tablespoon of yeast. It may seem like a lot of yeast per roughly a total of 2 cups of flour. However, when you start the process with a sponge starter, the fermentation has already started before you mix the dough. This is different from the no-sponge method wherein the dry yeast is added to the dough at the same time as the other ingredients. A sponge starter is a good way to ensure reliable and quick rising.

·  Yes, these buns freeze beautifully.

 yes they can be filled..




bread and beer's picture
bread and beer

Hi Greetings from Maine, 

I just joined fresh loaf, i have been getting tips and ideas from the site for a while but just decided to join to hopefully get some feed back about an idea i have been working on a new pub/bakery called bread and beer, what do you think. We all know the close relationship bread and beer have, so the question is would you go to a place where you could get both home brew and a fresh baked loaf? I have been baking bread for a long time starting with sandwich bread for the kids and graduating to artisian loaves. I work at a couple bakeries now but they don't share the desire for multi grain healthy products that I want to produce, Do any of you bread lovers share the same desire for beer and bread that  i do?

proth5's picture

For those of you following baguette quests, a new "Best Baguette in Paris" has been named:  M. Frank Tombarel at his boulangerie Le Grenier de Felix, 64 Avenue Felix Faure (XVeme).

We have high hopes that Janedo can quickly make a trip there to learn his secrets.... :>)

Happy Baking!


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