The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

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yozzause's picture

Recently been corresponding with Katy 'Bakingbad' and the subject of Pate Fermentee was explored especially as a possible way of getting a stronger sour into S/D. As most of you are aware its a French term for adding old dough to a new mix.  It got me thinking about something i spotted years ago in a local West Australian bakery when i was chatting to the owner during his weighing up for his production. I recognised the different things that he was scooping up from under the counter bins  except one so took a closer look, he smiled and said its "bread crumbs". Apparently its used in a number of his Italian style breads claims it adds flavour, texture colour and value. The bread is day old bread that is processed into crumbs that he also sells, the bread goes through a hammer mill and the crumbs spread out on shallow trays that go into the cooling ovens at the end of the day to dehydrate. Anyway i have never tried this myself but decided now was the time, i had a quarter of a potato rosemarie and black sesame loaf left from a previous bake so put that to good use and turned it into crumbs 

(the donor loaf which was very good too but qualified as a 2 day old loaf)    

I quickly formulated a dough that would use bread crumbs at 10% and a total dough weight of 750g to fit into the sandwhich loaf tin i have, i also was using fresh compressed yeast. The dough mixed up well by hand on the bench. It was given a bulk proof   knocked back  rested for 15 minutes shaped placed in the tin. i slid the lid on whilst it proved  checking its progress along the way  i decided to bake without the lid on  as i've not done this dough before and i would be able to get a better look at its spring .



So there we have it  a nice fine soft crumb that is often sought for sandwich breads, i think that the lovely aroma from the potato / rosemarie has carried through  in this, and its made wonderful thin cut toast. you can still see the odd black sesame seed from the original loaf.

Regards Yozza 

















isand66's picture


This is a 66% rye bread made with fresh milled rye sifted so it's close to a medium grind rye flour.  I added some fresh milled spelt as well which really compliments the rye.  I had some left-over cheese grits from my wife's breakfast the other day so into the mix it went along with some mashed potatoes which were roughly mashed.

This was a very sticky dough as the moisture from the grits and potatoes added a lot of extra water content.  The 58% hydration listed in the formula does not include the water from the potatoes and grits so in reality it is much higher.  If you don't feel comfortable with such a sticky dough you can adjust the water as needed. Also, keep in mind if you use store bought flour it may not be as thirsty as the fresh milled I used.

Here are the Zip files for the above BreadStorm files.

This bread came out fantastic.  The crumb was nice and moist and open just enough to make a perfect pastrami sandwich with some melted cheese and Thousand Island dressing.

Levain Directions

Mix all the levain ingredients together  for about 1 minute and cover with plastic wrap.  Let it sit at room temperature for around 7-8 hours or until the starter has doubled.  I used my proofer set at 83 degrees and it took about 4 hours.   You can use it immediately in the final dough or let it sit in your refrigerator overnight.

 Main Dough Procedure

Mix the flours  and the water for about 1 minute.  Let the rough dough sit for about 20 minutes to an hour.  Next add the levain, grits, potatoes, olive oil, and salt and mix on low for 4 minutes.  You should end up with a cohesive dough that is slightly tacky but very manageable.  Remove the dough from your bowl and place it in a lightly oiled bowl or work surface and do several stretch and folds.  Let it rest covered for 10-15 minutes and then do another stretch and fold.  Let it rest another 10-15 minutes and do one additional stretch and fold.  After a total of 2 hours place your covered bowl in the refrigerator and let it rest for 12 to 24 hours.  (Since I used my proofer I only let the dough sit out for 1.5 hours before refrigerating).

When you are ready to bake remove the bowl from the refrigerator and let it set out at room temperature still covered for 1.5 to 2 hours.  Remove the dough and shape as desired.

The dough will take 1.5 to 2 hours depending on your room temperature and will only rise about 1/3 it's size at most.  Let the dough dictate when it is read to bake not the clock.

Around 45 minutes before ready to bake, pre-heat your oven to 540 degrees F. and prepare it for steam.  I have a heavy-duty baking pan on the bottom rack of my oven with 1 baking stone on above the pan and one on the top shelf.  I pour 1 cup of boiling water in the pan right after I place the dough in the oven.

Right before you are ready to put them in the oven, score as desired and then add 1 cup of boiling water to your steam pan or follow your own steam procedure.

Lower the temperature to 450 degrees.  Bake for 35-50 minutes until the crust is nice and brown and the internal temperature of the bread is 205 degrees.

Take the bread out of the oven when done and let it cool on a bakers rack before for at least 2 hours before eating.

Below are some more photos from my gardens.  The summer flowers are starting to bloom now.  Enjoy!

meb21's picture

I've always wanted to bake hoagie rolls but for some reason was too intimated to try. Maybe because these involve shaping multiple little loaves at once? I don't know but I'm hooked! These were fun to make and they came out great! These are also a great way to practice shaping, as you have to do so many at once. I baked 12 loaves in al. Thinking of making sourdough rolls next, topped with sesame seeds! 

After mixing the dough, I divided and shaped into balls then I flatted and rolled each piece after resting


 Here are the rolls after shaping and then after rising and scoring



What is it about making bread that is so therapeutic? 

I sprayed rolls and oven with water to create just a bit of steam. 


WatertownNewbie's picture

A few months after Alan (aka alfanso) posted his bake of the Scott McGee ciabatta, I finally got around to baking the bread.  The result was pleasing, with one loaf consumed at home by my wife and me and the other given away to a neighbor.

I used my KitchenAid Artisan mixer and followed Alan's directions for speed levels, but I have never done French Folds and decided not to make this my first venture into that technique.  Instead, I worked the shaggy dough in the mixing bowl by some hearty hand pulling (think of what Trevor J. Wilson does in his mixing bowls) and observed some nice gluten development already.  The bassinage was interesting.  I opted to combine the water, olive oil, and salt in a Pyrex measuring cup for easy pouring.  The shaggy dough was a little stiff, but when I added a bit of the mixture and the dough loosened, the speed of the mixer let me know to wait until that dose was absorbed.  I repeated that a few times, gradually incorporating the bassinage elements until upping the mixer speed to 6 and then 8.

The dough did not climb the hook very much, and I found that the pauses for scraping down the sides of the bowl seemed to give the dough a chance to recover.  By the end, with the dough slapping around on the 8 speed, the smooth and shiny texture I had been hoping to see was present.  As Alan predicted, the mixer generates some heat in the dough, and my final dough temperature was 83dF.  My water temperatures were 71dF for the initial mix and 65dF for the bassinage, but clearly these could be lowered.  On the other hand, aside from a slightly faster bulk fermentation and final proofing, I do not think that the 83dF made much of a difference from what something like 77dF might have produced.

This is an amazingly billowy dough, but with a lot of strength.  I chose to shape the dough by first dividing the mass into two portions and then flattening each portion into a rectangle and doing a letter fold on each before placing them onto a couche for proofing.  They puffed a bit, but when placed into the oven, they ballooned.

I use lava stones in pie pans for steaming, but I also spray ciabatta before it goes into the oven.  After thirteen minutes I opened the oven door and allowed the steam to escape.  Thereafter I kept an eye on the loaves, which started to darken.  A check of the internal temperatures showed 209dF after another dozen minutes, and ultimately I removed the loaves after a total of thirty-two minutes of baking.

Here are the loaves on the cooling rack.

The crumb has a very pillow-like softness with an assortment of large, small, and medium holes.  The crust is nice and chewy (for me an important characteristic of ciabatta).

These loaves became a deeper darker brown than any other ciabatta that I have baked, and for me that was a big plus.  It is likely that I could leave the loaves in longer the next time and see how dark they can be.  There was no burning on the bottom.

This is a fun recipe, and the dough has a feel of its own.  Thanks to Alan for posting his bake and giving me another option for ciabatta.

Happy Baking.


bakingbad's picture

I've been baking bad for just over a year now. Sourdough obsession came, peaked and then subsided for a few months whilst travelling. Its back with a vengeance as is my bread!

I came home to a very sorry looking starter. Abandoned for two months it was grey and stinky and had black water covering it. So, I just poured it off, mixed it all together, took a tablespoon and fed it. 

After a few days feeding it bounced right back. Hello bubbles and sweet fruity aromas.

Then I thought I try a new method and found Joshua  Weissman. A little annoying to listen too ( Sorry Joshua)  but easy to follow baking schedule and the best results Ive had in a year. If you haven't already found him here's a link to his website he's on insta and youtube too.

My bread came out of the banneton without sticking. A first. Then it held its shape whilst I gave it the oh so satisfactory light bakers slashes. Also a first. It ballooned in it's glass Dutch oven in record time, growing ears as I watched!

It came out singing. Crackling and popping and with lovely blistery bubbles in the crust. 

Im calling this a personal best. 

It was also delicious.



Hotbake's picture


First time trying this flavor combo, pretty good.

Could be better with another 15-20mins of proofing??

60% whole grain( einkorn, spelt, rye and whole wheat all 15 %respectively)

37% Bread flour 

3% wheat germ

1 head of roasted garlic(I put everything in the dough, olive oil and all)

Thyme and crushed fennel seeds to taste

I Tbsp Poppy(Will use more because I like the texture added)

About 75% hydration more or less. I used all of of water, but I didn't count the moisture of the roasted garlic and oil

16 hour Cold bulk,

out of the fridge,

30mins bench rest

shaped cold and warm proof for about 80 minutes (but I feel like it needed another 15-20 min, or bench rest for that much longer to bring the dough up to room temp before shaping. )It was a cold day and I felt like the dough was colder than it normally should when I did the final shaping. Maybe that explains why only the center of the loaf seemed to be a tad bit under proofed and the other sections are fine.

Like this one

 Or am I totally paranoid? What do you think?


bakergrun's picture

My brother, Aaron, and I are both enthusiastic amateur rye bread bakers. Since we live on opposite sides of the country, we often exchange pictures and messages about our bread baking adventures, and occasionally we like to bake the same recipe to compare results. 

A few weeks ago, Aaron baked Frisian Black Bread from The Rye Baker twice in the same week. He couldn't get the dough to rise very far in the final proofing stage and ended up with dense loaves both times.

I took a stab at the recipe this weekend, expecting similar results. Boy was I surprised! 20 minutes into the proofing time (listed as 30-45 min), the dough had risen to the top of the pan and was ready for baking. One of the strange quirks of this recipe is that the bread proofs in the oven and then is left in the oven while it pre-heats. The oven steamed up once I turned on the heat, but once the steam cleared away, I could see that the dough had exploded over the sides of the pan...whoops! 

After a full bake and hacking my poor franken-loaf out of the pan (I neglected to grease the top rim of the pan...and the outside?), I waited 24 hours to slice into the loaf only to discover a bread cavern! I'm not surprised given how vigorous the proofing and oven-spring was. Despite its visual flaws, the loaf is delicious—one of the tastiest rye breads I've made so far. Definitely a recipe I'll try again.

ifs201's picture

For my second sourdough loaf I tried this awesome recipe:


I followed it pretty exactly, but added caramelized onions and 1/4 tsp instant yeast. I still want to work on getting a slightly better oven spring and more open crumb, but it tasted amazing! I'm still trying to figure out if I am over proofing, under proofing, or not developing the gluten enough.


Elsie_iu's picture

Provolone Piccante… again? Yup, last week’s bread tasted so good that I want Provolone in my bread for another week. Although I’ve kept the cheese, the rest of the formula is completely different. However, that’s still saying a lot considering how afraid of boredom I am. This bread is inspired by Danni’s and Alan’s takes on Maurizio’s cinnamon raisin bread.



Cinnamon Thyme Provolone Piccante 20% Germinated Red Rice SD



Dough flour

Final Dough


Total Dough










Flour (All Freshly Milled)









Whole Red Fife Wheat Flour









Sprouted Red Wheat Flour









Germinated Red Rice Flour









White Whole Wheat Flour (Starter)









Whole Rye Flour (Starter)































































Vital Wheat Gluten









Starter (100% hydration)




































Provolone Piccante (Cubed)









Cassia Cinnamon (1/2 tsp)









Dried Thyme (1/2 tsp)




























Sift out the bran from dough flour, reserve 38 g for the leaven. Soak the rest, if any, in equal amount of whey taken from dough ingredients.

Combine all leaven ingredients and let sit until ready, about 4 hours (27.5°C). Since I was out for dinner, it was retarded for 4 hours.  

Roughly combine all dough ingredients. Ferment for a total of 2 hours 10 minutes. Construct a set of stretch and fold at the 15 and 30 minute mark, and fold in the add-ins at the 45 minute mark.  

Shape the dough then put in into a banneton directly. Retard for 8.5 hours.

Remove the dough from the fridge and let it warm up at room temperature for 10 minutes. Preheat the oven at 250°C/482°F. Score and spritz the dough then bake at 250°C/482°F with steam for 20 minutes then without steam for 25 minutes more or until the internal temperature reaches a minimum of 208°F. Let it cool for a minimum of 2 hours before slicing.


The cinnamon did lengthen the bulk but not by much. I’d say the dough took 20 minutes longer to rise in the bulk than usual, which is less than 17% in this case. Amazing aroma filled the kitchen while the bread was baking and it stayed for another few hours. There was decent oven spring and the crumb is moderately open.



Updated: This bread no doubt has a sweeter scent than last week's. The half a tsp of cinnamon comes through well yet it's no over-powering. I like sweet & salty combo and this one is no exception. The thyme is subtle but it complements the cinnamon nicely. The bread has a balanced sweetness-acidity flavor. It has an exceptionally crispy crust thanks to the fat of the cheese. 




Smoky refried black beans, cheese & cilantro quesadillas with yogurt. Yum…


Spaghetti Carbonara with spicy shrimps


All beef meatballs with SD rye breadcrumbs in a pressure-cooked tomatoes sauce, served with farfalle


Cahr Koay Teow. Not exactly but close…?


Pressure-cooked beef shank and daikon radishes with rice vermicelli, shrimp bhuna, potatoes rendang, mixed veggies slaw in a tamarind sesame dressing, quick pickled daikon radishes


Lye pretzels. So much better than the baking soda and baked baking soda versions! 


PalwithnoovenP's picture

I was so busy the past week that I wanted to make something quick to celebrate Father's Day. Instead of making bread, I decided to make cookies. This is just my second time to bake cookies; I am slowly exploring quick breads in my oven. It was quick but not that easy because of a few components which was inspired by the cookie principle of Monsieur Albouze. I made 3 giant single serving cookies, though roughly the same but with a variation for each. To French speakers out there, sorry if I made a mistake with the name; it just came to my mind while thinking of a name for this cookie, je suis désolé !

Mangoes are our favorite fruit and it's mango season now so I thought of flavors that would go well with mangoes and make it into cookie form.

It starts with a rich, lightly salty, chewy cookie dough loaded with dried Philippine mangoes, roasted cashews and white chocolate disks. 

It was then stuffed with salted caramel in the middle then baked for 10 minutes at 180C. After 10 minutes, it was topped with more dried mangoes, white chocolate, homemade mango jam from slightly sour mangoes, and homemade caramelized cashews then baked again. After a further 10 minutes still at 180C, what you get is this fabulous cookie with intense but balanced flavors.

Here are the variations:

1. Exactly as the description above, stuffed with homemade soft and chewy salted caramel.

2. Yema, a Filipino candy made from reduced condensed milk replaces the salted caramel as filling.

3. Filled with Yema, topped with a slice of fresh mango in addition to the mango jam then finished with a sprinkling of dark chocolate. Our favorite!

It was so fragrant from all the add-ins in addition the butter and sugar. The nutty aroma can even be smelt outside the house while they were baking and when they were cooling. The chewy dried mango, crunchy nuts, gooey chocolate, sticky caramel, chunky jam, and soft and smooth mangoes make for a party of textures in the mouth; and the balance of flavors from the caramel, salt, tang from the fresh mango, sweetness form the dried mangoes and chocolate and the nuttiness from the cashews. So enjoyable to eat!

Look closely and you will see the caramel evenly distributed in the cookie.

Sorry if this was out of focus, I was in a hurry to eat it.

I had some beverages to pair with it but I found a glass of cold milk is the best! It really complements all of the flavors well. One more thing, how I wish I have filled all of them with my salted caramel, it really tastes way better with the mangoes than with the store bought candy (which I tried to see if making homemade is critical or just a waste of effort; if you can have an equal or better outcome using something store bought without effort, clearly the effort is worth it) and how I wish that it was the third variation that I have filled with the good stuff!

Happy Father's Day!


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