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idaveindy's picture

7th TFL Bake, Nov. 6, 2019.

452 g Prairie Gold, HWSW, home-milled coarse.

134 g Kamut khorasan wheat, home-milled coarse.   (586 g flour so far.)

1/4 tablet of 500 mg vitamin C

473 g water.  Initial hydration: 473 / 586 = 80.7%

Mix at 10:55 am.

Autolyse time: 2 hrs 10 min.

1:05 pm. Add 190 g Levain, at 100% hydration.  Levain is mish-mash of BRM dark rye, BRM WW pastry flour, PG, Kamut, white rice flour, and about 1 tsp each of BRM 1-to-1 GF flour, maltodextrin, dextrose, and dried malt extract.  I was running late on building up the starter into a fresh levain, so I added the sugars to hurry things along.

Flour so far:  586 + 95 = 681 g.

Water so far: 473 + 95 = 568 g.

Hydration so far: 568 / 681 = 83.4%.

Percent Prefermented Flour, PPF: 95 / 681 = 13.95%.

1:42 pm. Stretch and fold.

2:28 pm. Stretch and fold.

2:53 pm. Added/folded in 13.3 g salt (1.95%) semi-dissolved in 20 g water.

Final hydration: (568 + 20) / 681 = 86.3%

Final weight:  588 + 681 + 13 = 1282 g = 2.82 pounds

Bulk ferment:  2 hours, 40 min.  (1:05 - 3:45)

3:45 pm. Passed window-pan test. Folded and rested.

3:55 pm. Dusted and put in floured (50/50 white rice flour and WW pastry flour) and lined banneton.

Room temp proof: 1 hour, 12 min. ( 3:45 - 4:57)

4:57 pm. Put in fridge.

7:57 pm. Pre-heat oven to *495/475.   (First number is oven setting, second number is actual.)

Cold proof: 3 hours, 54 min. (4:57 - 8:51)

Total proof: 5 hours, 6 min. (3:45 - 8:51)

8:51 pm. Bake in combo cooker, pot as bottom, skillet as top, covered, 470/450, 15 minutes.

9:06 pm. Still covered, lower temp to 430/410.  16 minutes.

9:22 pm. Uncover, lower temp to 420/400.  14 minutes.

9:36 pm.  Still uncovered, lower temp to 400/380.  27 minutes.

9:58 pm. Internal temp: 209.5 F.  Put back in oven.

10:03 pm. Took out. Temp still 209.5 F.  Call it done.

Total bake time: 1 hour, 12 minutes. (8:51 - 10:03)


That Vit C really made a difference, giving a good balance of extensibility to elasticity of the dough. And allowed that to occur at a lower hydration so that it did not take too much time to bake off the moisture.

I credit the Loafers in general, and DanAyo in particular, in encouraging me to precisely measure and record hydration, to use 14% prefermented flour, and to try out vitamin C.


Not a big oven spring, not an impressive bursting score line, but it finished baking in 74 minutes, ten minutes quicker than previous bakes, probably because of less water to cook off.

I'm still going to have to experiment with autolyse, bulk ferment, and final proof times, in order to get better oven spring.

More importantly, the crumb, while not Instagram-worthy, was still light  and airy enough, that a non-baker would not guess that it was home-milled near 100% whole-grain.


I've also come to learn that you can't skimp on salt with 100% whole-grain.  I was trying to go low-sodium with 1.6% salt.  But 2% salt is needed for dough development when using near 100% whole grain.


I've also concluded that Kamut doesn't go well with hard white spring wheat, in terms of taste.  So I'm going to try mixing in some hard red spring wheat, instead of Kamut, for flavor.  And then try a separate loaf of 100% Kamut.  I do like Kamut for flat breads, which durum is known for.  Kamut is very very close to durum, genetically, and in baking characteristics.



Cedarmountain's picture

My first bake with this year's organic grain harvest CSA share from Cedar Isle Farm - an Oat Rye Sourdough - sprouted oats and rye, rolled oats/cracked flax soaker, sifted bran and sesame seed coating.  











Hotbake's picture

Just rye and sunflower seed, to go with the smoked salmon we got this weekend 

About 85-87% hydration 

Very simple bread

I want to get a perfectly square bread pan for just rye bread but this pan is a no brainer when it comes to proofing rye.

850g of dough, risen all the way up to the rim and bake, always right and never collapsed! 

Angelica Nelson's picture
Angelica Nelson

During baking there was a nice oven rise but it shrinks by the end of the baking time.  I'm guessing it's because of water loss. 

This bread recipe is gluten free and I've read before that the shrinking of bread after baking happens a lot more in gluten free bread making.  I've never seen anyone explain why this is, though.  It just is.

If this was a wheat bread and this happened, what would be the reason?  Too much yeast?  Too much water?  I'd like to do what I can to minimize it.  Maybe if I added bean flour?  I have some mung beans that I could sprout, mash and add to a bread recipe.

Here's the size of the bread after complete cooling, and the crumb structure (which is really nice for a GF bread).  The recipe is here:

rscalia's picture

Hi All,  

I have a barely used Electrolux Assistent, maybe used 4 times and hyper cleanly maintained and stored.  It is white. I can post more pictures if there is interest. Its is basically brand new, with all the basic attachments intact + the mixer unit for milk shakes, ice crushing etc.  Works great and can handle mountains of dough without issue. I was planning to ask $350 on amazon/ebay. Shipping is negotiable. 


ifs201's picture

I made babka a month or two ago using a combo of instant yeast, sourdough starter, and yeast water. This time around I decided to follow an actual recipe! This is 100% sourdough babka using the recipe for the dough from Artisan Bryan. I didn't use his fillings and instead did two babkas using a baklava-type filling (walnut, pistachio, almond and rose water) from Smitten Kitchen and one using a chocolate and nut filling. The Artisan Bryan recipe also calls for all bread flour, but I did 8% whole wheat and 15% spelt. The babka is definitely more flavorful than your average, but I am not sure how I feel about the tang. I might use YW next time. 


sharishaw49's picture

After some dispiriting failures (the Paul Hollywood organic apple starter, the Pineapple Juice solution), I have three new contenders: George Greenstein's rye sour, Maurizio Leo's rye starter, and Chef Rachida's interpretation of Kristen's starter from Full Proof Baking. Hopefully one of them will thrive. I'm pretty sure I'll be baking Jewish Rye Bread tomorrow--although that bread is not sourdough. Once I get a viable starter, I'm shooting for the moon. I've seen such wonderful posts lately that I cannot wait to get going. I have plans for rye, ancient grains, and trying spelt to see if my daughter who's wheat intolerant can stomach it. If not, I will eat it!!!

dmsnyder's picture

I've been able to bake some pretty nice breads over the past dozen years or so. I give lots of credit to my oven which provided predictable, accurate and evenly distributed heat. It also retained humidity well when set to conventional baking. But it died.

That oven was installed 23 years ago. The KitchenAid folks told me the expected life span of a current production oven is 10 to 15 years. That seems short to me, but I've been told so many times by various appliance sales and repair people that, literally, "They don't make 'em like they used to."

Anyway, after consulting Consumers Report and a trusted appliance sales person, I ended up replacing my old KitchenAid convection oven with the current model of the same oven. It has a few differences, but most of these seem to be improvements to me. Nonetheless, any new oven needs to be tested and, I believe, requires some adjustments in procedures to achieve optimal results. I'm still learning the idiosyncrasies of this oven, but it seems capable of baking good bread.

My first bake was Jewish Sour Rye. This was baked on a pizza stone with my usual oven steaming method.

And, today, I baked a dozen sandwich rolls made with the "Medium Vienna Dough" from "Inside the Jewish Bakery."

The rolls took a long time to brown. I am not yet sure whether the oven temperature was lower than my setting or the oven needs longer to pre-heat after it reaches temperature or I need to place the oven rack lower for conventional baking in this oven.  More tests are called for. I can do that. 

Happy baking!


treeowl's picture

670g King Arthur bread flour

7g instant yeast (I prefer Dr Oetker brand, but it has no hechsher)

2tsp table salt or fine sea salt

5 eggs, one of them divided

1/4 cup mild honey

1/4 cup canola oil or similar

3/4 cup cold water

Sesame and/or poppy seeds, untoasted (optional)


Combine flour with yeast.

Lightly beat the four eggs and the yolk. Add other liquid ingredients and stir until honey is dissolved.

Add liquid ingredients to flour mixture and stir well with a spoon to combine. Let rest a few minutes, then knead in salt and continue to knead for a while longer.

Lightly oil bowl and dough, cover well, and refrigerate overnight. In the morning, perform a stretch-and-fold.

When near ready to bake, remove from the refrigerator and leave out for around an hour and a half.

Divide dough into six pieces. Flatten each and shape into a cylinder. Let rest a bit, then roll into strands, letting each rest as needed.

Braid into two loaves, cover loosely but well with oil-sprayed plastic wrap, and let rise until puffy. Toward the end, preheat oven to 350F.

Lightly beat remaining egg white with a pinch of salt. Brush over the loaves. If desired, sprinkle with sesame and/or poppy seeds. Note that the seed density will decrease in baking due to oven spring, so use a heavy hand here.

Bake around 24 minutes, until the interior reaches a temperature of 165F.

sscisme's picture

Hey there! I recently had a 'disaster' in my baking pantry and found moths in my folded up couches!!

I have since washed (ugh) and ironed them - but how do I protect them from this happening again? I have traps now (gross) and all is well - but I'm afraid if I stick them in plastic or something it might get 'stale'? Thanks so much for any advice! 



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