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proth5's picture

I don't know if it is my enduring love of the classic Star Trek Episode (remember - the tribbles ate all the quadrotriticale) or longing for the wee great mountains and lochs of Scotland (one of my past "homes away from home") but lately I've been obsessed with triticale - the wheat/rye hybrid developed in Scotland.

 Now 90% of the time, I am all about the research - reading, questioning, and studying before I make a move.  Of course, there's that 10% of the time where I just jump in - and the triticale was definitely in the 10%.  And as our story unfolds, we can all see why I usually do research.

 I tempered the triticale and achieved a 13% moisture reading.  I then milled it as I would wheat to about 85% extraction.  It milled mostly like wheat - although to get good bran separation, I needed to mill finer than usual.  But I would have been able to easily mill a "near white" flour as I can with wheat.

 I then proceeded to mix up my usual high extraction formula (levain based, 12% of the flour pre-fermented, lean dough, 72% hydration) with the aim to "go by the numbers" and see how triticale would be different.

 First bump in the road - when I brought the dough together, I realized that I had a dough with the characteristics of high percentage rye dough.

 As I passed the time between my 20 "folds in the bowl" - I did what I should have done and looked up triticale.  It was first bred in the laboratory in 1875 by a Scottish biologist and now is mostly available as a second generation hybrid (2 types of triticale are crossed.)  It is an interesting grain in that it has the high yield of wheat with the range tolerance of rye.  This in itself is interesting as it has the potential to produce a useable grain outside the range of wheat.  It is supposed to combine the taste of wheat with the taste of rye, which might make it interesting for those bakers who like a little rye in most of their baked products.  There are some claims that it is incredibly "good for you" although I take those lightly.

 Of course, the downside is that the gluten content is low and it is considered less desirable for bread baking than wheat - but more so than rye.

 So with the dough in the bowl, I decided to treat it somewhat like a rye dough.  Fortunately the base was already a levain.  I continued to mix it 6 times with the "fold in the bowl" method (as I would for a whole wheat - but it never did get any significant gluten development) then shaped it and put it in a banneton moderately dusted with a rice flour/wheat flour blend.  I allowed it to proof for 1 hour 15 minutes and it did rise fairly nicely.  It did not seem particularly over proofed, but seemed fragile enough that I wanted to get it into the oven.  For the first time ever, I "cheated" (by my definition) by using parchment on the peel as I just felt that it would not survive the slightest roughness while loading.  After a feather soft landing on the peel - the dough flattened considerably.  No need to score, but I did lightly dock it.  I baked it in a receding oven starting at 500F with copious steam.

 The result?

 Well, I wouldn't call it good (I gotta be me...), but I wouldn't call it bad.  It had a wonderful wheaty aroma while baking and did have a small amount of oven spring, but I was expecting a rock.

 See below - It was really, really flat.  I put an egg cup in the shot to give an idea of how flat it was.

Triticale Loaf


The crumb, however, although very fine was fairly light.  It was not really heavy. (See below.)

Triticale Crumb


The taste was actually quite nice - like red whole wheat with just a hint of rye.  Just enough to add complexity, but not to overwhelm the wheat. I probably should have let it settle for a day - but given that this was not destined to be a truly fine bread - I felt it didn't matter.

 Now this isn't a question of "what went wrong with my bread?"  I know what went wrong.  I went off the deep end and used a grain that wasn't going to give me the best results.  But it didn't give me horrible results and the taste was quite nice.

 The question is really - how do we take this somewhat marginal grain and make a much better bread?

 My thoughts are as follows:

  • Add wheat flour - this is the obvious one and one that I'd like to avoid for now.

  • Bake it as enriched pan bread - I should not have so much trouble with collapse and spreading.

  • Use commercial yeast to supplement the levain.  The oven spring with a levain is always somewhat less than with commercial yeast.  Oven spring may have made up a bit for the collapse.

  • Any suggestions?

 So I call upon the collective wisdom of the TFLer's to come up with suggestions...  I'll certainly be willing to try them if they seem reasonable. This seems like a grain that just hasn't had the right marketing campaign...

 Happy Baking!

kranieri's picture

second endeavor after coming back to my electric oven after a month of wood fired brick oven adventures. delicious little rolls for pretty much anything, for me it was a dinner roll.

pretty good rise for a 100% whole wheat, but that seems to be the standard since switching to natural leaven, open crumb, super moist. i was quite pleased. the crust was pretty good too even for the electric oven, although my heart still has a brick oven sized hole...



Shiao-Ping's picture

Goji is one of the most anti-oxidant berries in the world.  Tibet is a barren country; they don't have much produce but they have Goji in abundance.  In the health food stores in Brisbane, I sense a fab going on with these Tibetan Goji berries.  They sell for a lot of money but in China and Taiwan they are dirt cheap - you buy them from Chinese herbal medicine stores.  As kids, we were told to have plenty of them as they are very good for your eye sight (or so the Chinese herbal doctors have us believe).  A dish that my mother often made when we were little was beef and Goji soup - it's like a clear stew which is mildly sweet and very nutritious.   In Chinese restaurants, sometimes you can get clear chicken and Goji soup with ginger, served individually in a cute little porcelain pot.  My mother would be very happy to learn that I have made these Goji berries into a sourdough bread.  


                                       Goji berries from Tibet                               cooked spinach  

This is my first take on this combination.   I soaked the Goji berries in boiling hot water for 10 minutes so that when they are kneaded into the dough they would be mashed into puree and would color the dough.  I added a touch of freshly ground nutmeg and pepper to counter  the sweetness from Goji.  I want this to be a more savory rather than sweet sourdough.   And, it worked.     


mixing                                                 the dough                                            done proofing

start to finish - 18 hours     

My Formula:  

190 g starter @ 75% hydration  

186 g white flour  

186 g KAF Sir Lancelot high gluten flour  

90 g water   100 g Goji berries soaked in 100 g boiling hot water for 10 min.  

120 g cooked English spinach (I cooked more than double that quantity in 20 g olive oil, then squeezed out as much liquid as possible)  

10 g Tibetan salt  

freshly ground nutmeg and black pepper  

fine psyllium husks for dusting    


final dough weight 980g and approx. hydration 70% (about 50-60% of spinach weight is liquid even though they've been squeezed)        



    Tibetan Goji Berries & English Spinach Sourdough                                      


                                  The crumb                 


              more crumb                                                        


                                                  ... and more ....  

The crust is soft to bite into and yet very crispy.  I have found a way to manage my oven to achieve a crust that I like - I start the baking at 240C/465F for 10 min, turn the temp down to 215C/420F for another 10 min, then 190C/375F another 10 min, then 170C/340F for the remaining 10 min - all up 40 minutes for a loaf around 1 kg.   I have found that it is time, not heat, that matters for the crust that I like.    

The crumb was really delicious - I could have it on its own without any butter.  (I tend to under-salt my dough as I like to make it up in the butter I spread onto my slice when I have it.  This is the same as, for example, when I cook risotto - I save a portion of the butter/oil required for the recipe until the last minute just before the dish is to be plated, so the rice is coated with the lovely butter, silky and fragrant, as I take my first morsel.)  

I enjoy this sourdough more than the Caramelized Hazelnut & Blueberry Spelt Sourdough that I made two days ago.  No single taste stands out; there is a very fine balance in the sweetness of Goji berries, the salt, and the spiciness of pepper and nutmeg.  You cannot single out any individual taste.  The flavors blend in effortlessly because they are compatible.   

I surprise myself.                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                    fine psyllium husks dusting


hansjoakim's picture

There are a couple of things you can do with stale bread. Loaves that are past their prime can still be enjoyed for toast or paninis. Dried slices of lighter bread make for awesome croûtons. Not too spoilt breadcrumbs go well in stuffings or even in biscottis. Sourdough leavened pain de campagne is an awesome choice for putting in fishcakes. If you're really adventurous, hearty rye loaves mixed with rye starter, molasses, water and raisins can be made into kvas. If you're, as me, not that adventurous yet, you can slice stale rye bread, toast it until it's dry and dark (but not carbon), and put it into a new loaf of bread. If all else fails, stale bread is good bird fodder ;)

I recently made a boule of Hamelman's black bread - a 60/40 sourdough rye bread, where stale bread is mixed with ground coffee, vegetable oil and hot water. I mixed the soaker at same time I set the sourdough, and the overnight soak turned the mix into a (not very appealing) dark water slurry. I heated the soaker slightly to get the right DDT, and mixed the dough:

Mixed Schwarzbrot

I used bread flour instead of Hamelman's suggestion of high-gluten flour, so the dough came together after approximately 6 minutes in the mixer. By then it was well developed and pretty strong when I tugged at it.

Here's the fully proofed dough:

Proofed Schwarzbrot

It has a lovely brown, almost chocolate-y colour to it, and a heady aroma of fermented rye flour and strong, black coffee. The  aroma became even headier and more penetrating as the loaf baked:

Baking Schwarzbrot


The loaf weighs in at about 1 kg, so it baked for 45 minutes.

Baked Schwarzbrot

The loaf has a dark, crackly crust and an intense smell of dark coffee.

Side view of Schwarzbrot

I really like it - the flavour is unlike any other rye sourdoughs I've made. There are no hints of sweetness to it (as there are no molasses or other sweeteners/colour agents in the dough), but rather a subtle roasted coffee flavour that fits brilliantly with the taste of a 60/40 rye. I didn't include any caraway seeds or other herbs or spices, but I would like to try some dark caraway seeds next time, since Hamelman suggests that these pair nicely with the flavour of this black bread.

Side view of Schwarzbrot

Have a go at it! I think you'll enjoy it.


Crumb Schwarzbrot

As you can see, whether it's a black bread or not is certainly debatable - at least compared to a fully fledged Pumpernickel. But it's still very dark in colour as compared to other 60% medium rye loaves.

PS: Any other tips for what to do with stale bread?


The first locally grown, fully ripe strawberries are filling up the shelves at the local grocery store. Earlier this week, I couldn't resist the tempting berries anymore and went a little over board. They're absolutely delicious - soft, juicy and sweet with an almost blood red colour. This was the perfect opportunity to have a go at the Fraisier - a French strawberry cake. Some of the prettiest Fraisiers I've seen on the net, are the ones at La Tartine Gourmande, Tartelette and at Foodbeam (everything they make are stunning, and their takes on the Fraisier are no exceptions). I was stoked to be able to have a crack at this myself.

The Fraisier is traditionally a genoise cake base split in two and soaked in Grand Marnier cake syrup. The two layers are sandwiching a stack of strawberries and heavenly crème mousseline (crème patissière mixed with softened butter to make a buttercream slightly lighter than a typical meringue-based buttercream), and topped with a thin layer of marzipan.

Here, I'm in the middle of assembly:

Making Le Fraisier

Some hulled strawberries are divided in two, and lined along the rim, while whole, hulled strawberries make up the interior. Crème mousseline is then piped over this, before the second genoise layer is pressed on top, to flush the cream. Top the second genoise layer with a thin layer of crème mousseline, before chilling the cake in the fridge to firm it up.

After being chilled, a thin coat of marzipan is put on top. Here's how it turned out with my rather sparse top decorations:

Le Fraisier


This cake is all about good summer vibes. It's filled with fresh strawberries, the luscious taste of vanilla and soft butter from the crème mousseline, backdropped with the smooth Grand Marnier syrup.

Le Fraisier

If you have even more strawberries lying around (as I did - as said, I went a bit overboard), they're great on a tart, resting on a pillow of crème chantilly folded into pastry cream:

Strawberry tart

hamptonbaker's picture

Hello Baguette Masters,


I believe I have a sound formula for a lean french dough. It calls for a preferment with equal parts bread flour and water and 1 % instant yeast. The final dough is 66% hydration. However, I am not getting the thick, crispy crust, which I thought was desirable for a baguette? I have a great oven and do three seconds of steam 2x in the first minutes of baking.  What makes the crust thick? My baking time was roughly 30 minutes and the crust was light to medium brown (next time I will take a picture) Thanks for any suggestions, and I have been enjoying the back and forth between all the bakers on this site, it has been very helpful.

Marcy, hamptonbaker

gcook17's picture

I've been reading the forum for awhile and posted a few replies but I thought I should introduce myself.  My name is Greg and I live in Mountain View, CA.  I was a math geek in college and most of my life after that I've been a software engineer/project manager.  I recently graduated from Fuller Theological Seminary.  It's not clear what I'll do next for a living, but I'm currently doing part-time software contract work and handyman/small construction jobs.  My hobbies & interests have included wood-working, metal-working, photography, scuba diving, ocean cruising, sailboat racing, flying planes, backpacking, hunting, competitive shooting, archery, probably other things I've forgotten about, and of course baking bread and pastry. 

I've been baking several years and it's turning into an addiction.  It's a constant battle between wanting to bake more and not wanting to eat so much that I turn into the Goodyear blimp.  I live on a cul de sac and am constantly giving away bread and pastries to my neighbors.  My wife takes the excess to work and shares it with the folks in her office.  I've always baked bread off and on but success was random and besides I never thought bread was all that exciting to eat.  A friend gave us the book Baking Illustrated (from Cook's Illustrated magazine) several years ago and I learned to consistently make acceptable white sandwich bread.  The book showed me that it was possible to turn out consistent bread.  Later I tried their rosemary-olive bread and rustic Italian, etc.  I was completely hooked.  Peter Reinhart's BBA was next.  I took the Artisan Bread I & II classes at the San Francisco Baking Institute in South San Francisco and am signed up for the German bread class in September.  My wife's best friend can't eat any wheat so I'm trying to learn to bake a 100% rye bread that's really good.  So far I'm not too happy with the results and I have high hopes that the Germans really know how to do it.

My kitchen is miniscule and the oven is even minisculer.  I keep telling myself it's cheaper that way.  Besides what can I do?  If I put in a bigger oven there would be any room for the refrigerator.  Since I can only bake two batards at a time or one medium size boule, I've gotten pretty good at retarding several batches of proofing loaves so they can bake one after another.  Maybe a backyard wood-fired oven is the answer but it turms out my backyard is pretty miniscule too.  At least with a wood-fired oven I could get rid of all the hardwood scraps in the workshop that I can't bear to throw away.

My wife, Carol, must have a dream of being a farmer because over the years we've lived here she has planted a LOT of fruit trees.  Last summer I started making apricot, pear, plum, and apple tarts...Fig bars, and cherry pies, too.  She took the Viennoiserie class at SFBI, and since then we've been trying to duplicate the amazing croissants she made in the class in our poor little oven at home.

Anyway, enough about me.  I'm glad to be here and thankful for all the truly friendly and helpful people who kindly share their experience and knowledge on this forum.

LeadDog's picture

Lemon Rosemary Sourdough

I saw a post here on The Fresh Loaf  by someone looking for a formula for a Lemon Rosemary bread.  This combination sounded really good to me so I decided to give it a try.  First I had to decided how much Lemon Zest and Rosemary to put into the bread and I decided to try for about 2% for each of them.  Then I decided that I would use up the last of my bread flour and use some fresh milled whole wheat and rye.  I figured on a hydration of 70% and that the percentage of the sourdough preferment would be 20%.  It is summer time here and the temperatures have been hot so I figured less preferment would slow things down a little bit.  I now had a plan on how I was going to make this bread now I'll tell you how it went.

 The first night I made my first build of the preferment.

1st Build  Grams  Percent 
 Starter 50% 
 Flour 14  100% 
 Water 50% 
 Total 28 


 The next morning I add more flour and water to the preferment for the 2nd build.

2nd Build  Grams  Percent 
 1st build 28 54% 
 Flour 51 100% 
 Water 36 70% 
Total 114 


When I got home from work the afternoon I mixed the dough up as follows.  

 Dough Formula Grams  Percent 
 Flour* 571  100% 
 Water 400  70.05% 
 Salt 10  1.75% 
 Preferment 114  19.96% 
 Rosemary 11  1.93 
 Lemon Zest 12  2.10% 
 Olive Oil 11  1.93% 
 Total 1129  197.72% 

*Flours  Grams  Percent 
 Bread Flour 445  77.93% 
 Whole Wheat 69  12.08% 
 Rye 57  9.98% 
  First I dissolved the preferment into the water and then  mixed in the bread flour.  I let this sit while I went and milled my wheat and rye flours.  Next the wheat and rye flours were mixed in and the dough was let sit for 30 minutes.  We have Rosemary growing in the yard so I went and picked enough for 11 grams and then chopped it up into small bits.  I used a small grater to make Lemon Zest from one lemon and ended up with 12 grams.  I added the Lemon Zest, Rosemary, Salt and the Lemon Pepper infused Olive Oil all at the same time.  The rosemary went in first and my first reaction was it was going to just over power the bread.  The Lemon Zest went in last and after that all I could smell was lemon.  This seemed like it was going to be one powerful bread.  I mixed the dough until the gluten developed.  Then the dough was turned out into an oiled bowl and placed in the wine cellar for a cool ferment.  Four hours later I placed the bowl in the refrigerator so I could cook it when I got home from work the next day.  I checked the dough in the morning before I went to work and it had raised up to touch the plate that I place on top of the bowl.  When I got home that day the dough was lifting the plate off of the bowl.  I set the bowl out and let the dough warm up for two hours.  Then I turned out the dough on to a floured work surface and folded the dough over on itself to get some flour on all the surfaces of the dough.  When I looked at the dough after I did this the dough looked so nice I just want to bake it like that without shaping it any more.  I figured that if I rolled it over onto some parchment paper that it just might work.  Then I put the dough into a counche and turned the oven on to 460°F to preheat it.  I used a cast iron roasting pan to bake this bread in so it is oiled and preheated in the oven too.  When the oven gets up to temperature I place the dough in the pan and cook it with the lid on for 25 minutes and then the last 15 minutes without the lid.  The bread had great oven spring and just looked wonderful to me when I pulled it out.  The aroma of the bread just filled the house but now I had to get some sleep.  Cutting the bread would have to wait for the next day at work were my coworkers are my bread testers.   My testers really liked the bread.  They were eating great big slabs of the bread all day long.  I told my boss what kind of bread that I had made and she said she didn't like Lemon Rosemary.  Later a coworker tells my boss how great it tastes and talks her into trying a slice of it.  My boss then emails me telling me how great the bread is.  There were many great compliments on this bread, it was just incredible.


sharonk's picture

I tried one of my newest gluten free recipes and came up with a very tasty bread. It had a nice crumb, a nice rise and a nice crust. When I travel I always bring my own bread. I was getting ready to travel to a family event. I sliced up one loaf and packed it in my suitcase. To be sure I would have enough bread I also took the loaf I had previously sliced and frozen the week before. When I got to my hotel room I unpacked the still slightly frozen bread, leaving it to thaw in the open air. Meanwhile, I happily ate the fresh slices as I moved through the weekend’s events. I had forgotten about the thawing slices in the open air until I began packing and saw them. Being unsure they were still good but unwilling to dump them, I repacked them and brought them home. When I got home I toasted up a piece and Wow! it was still fantastic! There were a few pieces left so I wrapped them in a cloth and set them on the counter to see how many more days they would still taste good. They were still excellent even 2-3 days later. So this was a previously frozen bread that had thawed in the stuffy air of a hotel room, inadvertently left in that same stuffy air for 3 days, repacked and traveled a total of 700 miles. The bread just would not get stale, old, or gross!


For a gluten free bread to be treated this way and still taste so good is very, very unusual. Most people who must eat gluten free bread, whether they bake their own or buy it fresh, eat it fresh for one day and put the rest in the freezer because it dries out so quickly. My gluten free sourdough bread stays fresh on the counter for 5 days wrapped in a cloth, sitting in an open plastic container. It keeps 10 days in the fridge if it hasn’t been eaten up by then. It also freezes, thaws and toasts up beautifully. I have always been proud of the long shelf life of this palatable bread.


The packed, frozen, thawed, repacked, retoasted loaf that was inadvertently ignored in the hotel room was an experimental loaf. I used one of my standard recipes and added 2 tablespoons of chia seed gel to it. Recently I baked another loaf using this same recipe, with chia added, and tested the limits of its shelf life. It lasted 10 days! stored on the counter, in a cloth, in an open plastic container. By day 8 it lost a little of its bounce but gained a great crispiness in the toaster.


Chia seed is a wonderful addition to baked products. Adding 2 tablespoons of chia seed gel to baking products will extend the freshness and shelf life. The chia seeds attract moisture which is retained in the baking product.


To make chia seed gel, take 2 tablespoons of chia seed and mix it into 8 ounces of water.


Stir with a whisk or fork every 5-10 minutes for a half hour.


It is suggested to let the chia seed gel sit for 12 hours before using.


It keeps for 2 weeks in the fridge.

davidg618's picture

I'd planned to do yet another bake of classic baguettes ala Hitz' formula, but after seeing and reading Pamela's blog entry a week ago, and after comparing Dan's formula with what I've been doing--they are very similar except for the liquid levain--I gave into my temptation and made the DiMuzio formula. The only change I made was to scale the formula to 1000g final dough weight (four 250g small baguettes) which isn't really a change, merely a diminuation. The DiMuzio formula calls for instant yeast, in addition to the liquid levain. I considered not using it, ultimately deciding to be faithful to the formula.

I prepared the liquid levain from my starter cache, using the 3-Build process I've made my own, over a nineteen hour interval. I mixed all ingredients together in my stand mixer for five minutes--bread hook, on lowest speed--then 3 minutes on second lowest speed, rested the dough 30 minutes, did a stretch & fold, and started to chill the dough for overnight retarded bulk fermation. I did two more S&F at 45 minute intervals before I was satisfied with the dough's development. Left to ferment overnight in the fridge, approximately 12 hours. Next morning, I divided the dough, and returned half to the refrigerator. I let the dough rest for thirty minutes. It didn't reach room temperature, but it had doubled in volume so I divided it again in two,  preshaped, rested 20 minutes, shaped, and proofed for an hour. Baked for 10 minutes, with steam, at 480*F, cleared the steam as much as possible, dropped the temperature to 450°F and baked further to 208°F internal temperature. I had decided to do the bake in two two-loaf batches. The one time I baked four baguettes simultaneously, despite the convection oven, I experienced uneven baking among the loaves.

Meanwhile, I'd removed the remaining dough from the refrigerator.

I was pleased, with the first batch's oven-spring, but one of the two loaves had a minor blowout. I'm still not confident my shaping and slashing is what it should be, and the visual results of the first two loaves didn't boast my confidence even an iota. I prepared and baked the second two loaves like the first batch with two planned changes--and one mistake. Planned: I allowed the shaped loaves to proof 15 minutes longer, and I slashed approximately 1/4 of an inch deeper than the first batch. Unplanned: In a senior moment, I forgot to lower the temperature to 450°F after the first ten minutes.  I think this only effected the crust thickness and color. The second two loaves are on the right in the picture below. I removed the loaves, like the first two, at 208°F internal temperature.

The crumb is all I could ask for, and the flavor, in my perspective, not surprisingly, is better than the poolish initiated baguettes I've been baking. Let me hasten to add, I love their flavor as well, but the sourdough levain adds complexity absent in the classic baguettes. I especially like the crust's nutty flavor bursts, and the chewier crumb. Furthermore, the flavor is only mildly sour.

So, I'll claim a conditioned success: Taste: A, Visual: C. Procedures: C+; I got a lot of them right, but not all of them. I've watched shaping and slashing video's and read shaping and slashing instructions ad nauseum, but my hands haven't yet developed the muscle memory to be able to do it rightly, without thinking about it. More practice, practice, practice. At least I've got lots of mouths that love to eat my bread, regardless of how it looks. I did, however, see one neighbor close her eyes while chewing a mouthful. I had assumed it was a gesture of ecstasy, and felt flattered, but maybe, that wasn't the real reason!


Yippee's picture

I must confess this loaf is a mistake, but it is also the best sandwich loaf I've made so far.  It's fluffy, springy, and moist and 'pillowy' to touch; and it's wholesome - made with 100% white whole wheat.  Basically it has everything I've dreamed for in a sandwich loaf. 

It's an old formula adapted from a friend's home recipe, which originally calls for 64% hydration.  However, I did experiment with something new this time: the double hydration mixing technique, in which part of the liquid called for is reserved and added to the dough gradually in small increments after gluten has well developed initially through kneading.  

As I converted the original recipe into a formula using water roux starter, I forgot to account for the liquid component in the starter and accidentally added more liquid than I should.  This pushed the hydration of the dough up to 79%.  If I had not applied the double hydration technique, I may not have been able to incorporate all the liquid into the dough without ruining it.

This loaf turned out surprisingly good, since I did not realize in the first place my alteration to the formula. Now it has been four days, it still shows no signs of drying.  It springs right back when I bite into it and it still tastes very good without toasting.

This unexpected outcome has made me wonder if we up the hydration of our dough to the highest point it can withstand, will this produce a more fluffy loaf with extended shelf life?  Or other factors may kick in to interfere? Well, this question is too complex for a beginner to figure out.  Maybe you have the answer to it?

Here's my 'mistake':

090709 follow up:

I tried 70% hydration, still moist afte 3 days, but starting to show some signs of drying.

will experiment with 75% hydration next.    


100% WWW Yin and Yang Banana Toast      
Water Roux Starter          
any amount is fine as long as   bread flour (or whole wheat flour to make 100% WW)   50 g
the 1:5 ratio is followed   water    250 g
    Whisk both until well mixed      
    Heat it up on stove, keep stirring       
    until temperature reaches 65 C or 149 F      
    (Yippee uses the microwave, about 4 minutes, stir halfway.)       
    (Final product should leave a trail when stirred.)      
    Put a plastic wrap directly on top to prevent forming a 'skin'.      
    Must be cooled to at least room temperature before use.      
    Refrigerate up to 3 days.        
    Do not use if turns grey.      
Makes 1 twin loaf (530g)           
A.   whole wheat flour =           229 g
    sugar  =             30 g
    salt =            1.5 g
    yeast =               5 g
    vital wheat gluten =             15 g
B.   whole eggs and  milk combined =           132 g
    but weigh separately so you can hold back part of the milk      
     (eg. 20-30g) to add later       
    water roux starter =             72 g
    mashed ripe banana =             30 g
C.   unsalted butter =             15 g
D.   black and white sesame seeds, each on a plate = as much as needed
Knead: 1 Combine A. and B. knead until a ball is formed.  This time the dough      
    should be on the dry side, since part of the liquid is withheld      
  2 Add C as kneading continues      
  3 Then add the remaining milk reserved earlier in small increments, wait       
    until the previous addition is fully incorporated before adding again.      
    If your dough seems unwilling to take in more liquid, stop adding.       
1st Fermentation:   About 40 minutes at 28 C or 82.4 F      
Divide:    265g x 2 for the twin loaf      
Relax:   15 minutes at room temperature      
Shape:   twin loaf:      
    Roll into an oval      
    With the long side facing you:      
    Fold 1/3 from top to bottom, press to seal      
    Fold 1/3 from bottom to top, press to seal      
    Turn seam side down      
    Roll and elongate the dough to about 30cm or 12 "       
    Upside down and roll into a cylindrical shape      
    Wet a napkin, put on a plate, roll the formed loaves on the wet napkin      
    Roll the moist loaves on the plates of sesame seeds      
    Seam side down, into the loaf pan      
Final Proof:   About 40 minutes at 38 C or 100.4 F      
Bake:   350 F, 35-40 minutes      
    (Yippee applies whole egg wash before baking)      

This will be submitted to Wild Yeast Yeastspotting! 


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