The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

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Debram's picture

what is too hot for a starter to be kept at if not in the fridge, it gets hot here I can keep in cupboard but still will be 30C plus some days unless we have the aircon on

PalwithnoovenP's picture

Meet Park Tae Young, my persimmon yeast water!

After sourdough, I promised myself I will try yeast water. Although it took many months, here she is finally. Ready to raise breads with a different character. I documented another journey of my baking life so I hope you enjoy.

Many TFLers here have used yeast water and posted their beautiful breads made with it. It's really an old thing here and when I read it before I really wanted to try it. I waited so many years before giving it a try, I'm lucky because many have formalized the yeast water method by that time.

Uncle Dab has great tutorial about yeast water here YW Primer. Even though I followed his steps, I always fail just like my SD journey, in fact its 3 times already that I failed. All those attempts, I used raisins because I read it is one of the most reliable fruits for yeast water but I forgot that the only ones available here are oiled raisins so maybe that's what was hindering my success. Determined to succeed, this time I took a different route.

This yeast water is inspired by and named after my Korean friend Park Tae Young who is also fond of dried persimmons. Actually we became friends because of food, 90% of the time we talk about food; Korean or not, sweet or savory. It is how we discovered that we both like dried persimmons and became closer than ever. We often share this snack, even through photos as she is in Korea now.

Dried persimmons have a unique taste; like honeyed apples but different. They're fragrant and sweet but are very chewy and hard. The outside bloom looks like molds but I read they're just sugars from the pulp that migrated to the surface while drying into a delicate white bloom. Maybe there's yeast in there too. Any fruit or dried fruit can be used for YW but skin on and unwashed are the best, so I decided to use my favorite dried fruit for this. We got this beautiful dried persimmons from Chinatown a couple of months ago, They're a little expensive and we seldom have them because it's only 3 times a year at most that we go to Chinatown (because of the distance and heavy traffic) so they must be put to good use.

Average temperature from start to finish is 82 F.

I just removed the seed in the middle and cut the persimmons into little pieces and fill the jar with water three quarters full. No measuring or whatsoever. I didn't boil (to make sure that only the yeast in the fruits survives) my water like before. I just used it straight from the faucet. Before I was overly careful but now, anything goes because I feel that this is a success. I shook the jar and opened the lid twice on the first day.

Yes, miracles do happen! It is when I don't show any obsessive compulsive behavior that I succeed! The next day, it was already bubbling and active. There was a "psssh" sound when I opened the tight lid. Before it was already 7 days and yet there is no activity! Because it was already active, I didn't put honey anymore as prescribed by uncle Dab for the third day but I continued shaking and opening the lid for the next couple of days.

Here is the top view before shaking on the second day.

I kept the jar submerged halfway in water to keep ants at bay. I think ants are of the reasons too for my failures because they introduce bacteria and other microorganisms in the yeast water I'm trying to culture. Well I cannot blame them because who can resist the sweet fragrant liquid that flows down the sides of the jar when it is shaken.

Here is she is on the third day. Nothing much has changed, she is still bubbly and active but the persimmon pieces look much softer and the aroma of honeyed apples became stronger.

I shook and opened the jar for the next 4 days and here is she is by the 7th day. The "psssh" and fizzing sounds are much louder and the aroma is not unlike that of fresh persimmons. 

The top looks like a thick smoothie but settles and becomes homogeneous after shaking.

Here is close-up shot of the bubbles on the side indicating that she is very active.

Since we seldom buy dried persimmons and my yeast water could be all used up before we buy the next pack to refresh her, every yeast water that I make from dried persimmons; I will call Park Tae Young (朴泰映). Her English name is Claire Park so I guess I could fondly call my yeast water Claire sometimes. :-)

A letter that my friend wrote me, I wish I could read Hangul!

Park Tae Young and Zhou Clementine together. My bread workforce and friends in the kitchen!

Happy Yeast Water Baking!

isand66's picture

       dsc_0079    I wanted to bake a nice soft and flavorful bread but one with some healthy grains as well.  In went a soaker left for 24 hours in hot water comprised of grits, rolled oats and barley flakes.  I also added some left-over mashed potatoes and some grilled onions.

The flour was mostly fresh milled Kamut and Spelt with some KAF Bread Flour as well.

I used a cat and pumpkin cookie cutter to add some Halloween spirits to the boule, and while it could have used some seeds or cocoa to really make it cool, it still came out respectable.

The crumb was moist and open and bursting with flavor.  The soaker added a nice nutty flavor and the onions were melt in your mouth delicious along with the odd chunk of potato.  This one is worth making again.




Download the BreadStorm File Here.



Soaker Directions

Mix all of the dry ingredients together and add the boiling hot water.  Cover and let sit overnight or up to 24 hours at room temperature.

Levain Directions

Mix all the Levain ingredients together for about 1 minute and cover with plastic wrap.  Let it sit at room temperature for around 7-8 hours or until the starter has doubled.  I usually do this the night before.  Use immediately or refrigerate for up to 2 days.

 Main Dough Procedure

Mix the flours,  and 400 grams of the water together in your mixer or by hand until it just starts to come together, maybe about 1 minute.  Let it rest in your work bowl covered for 60 minutes.   Next add the salt, starter (cut into about 7-8 pieces), potatoes, onions and balance of the water, and mix on low for 6 minutes.  Remove the dough from your bowl and place it in a lightly oiled bowl or work surface and do several stretch and folds.  Let it rest covered for 10-15 minutes and then do another stretch and fold.  Let it rest another 10-15 minutes and do one additional stretch and fold.  After a total of 2 hours place your covered bowl in the refrigerator and let it rest for 12 to 24 hours.  (If you have a proofer you can set it to 80 degrees and follow above steps but you should be finished in 1 hour to 1.5 hours).

When you are ready to bake remove the bowl from the refrigerator and let it set out at room temperature still covered for 1.5 to 2 hours.  Remove the dough and shape as desired.   Place your dough into your proofing basket(s) and cover with a moist tea towel or plastic wrap sprayed with cooking spray.  The dough will take 1.5 to 2 hours depending on your room temperature.  Let the dough dictate when it is read to bake not the clock.


Around 45 minutes before ready to bake, pre-heat your oven to 550 degrees F. and prepare it for steam.  I have a heavy-duty baking pan on the bottom rack of my oven with 1 baking stone on above the pan and one on the top shelf.  I pour 1 cup of boiling water in the pan right after I place the dough in the oven.

Right before you are ready to put them in the oven, score as desired and then add 1 cup of boiling water to your steam pan or follow your own steam procedure.

After 1 minute lower the temperature to 450 degrees.  Bake for 25-35 minutes until the crust is nice and brown and the internal temperature of the bread is 210 degrees.

Take the bread out of the oven when done and let it cool on a bakers rack before for at least 2 hours before eating.





HappyBread's picture

Finally bought an Emile Henry baguette baker... 1 year twice daily fed sourdough stater (785 g), 245 g H20, 545 g bread flour, 17 g salt... rise at room temp... and viola! 

dabrownman's picture

This was a special Halloween.  It has been years since our daughter was home for one.  The last time she was here we carved a Chi Oh Owl Pumpkin.  This time we put Lucy on Pumpkin.  It scared the heck out of her too!

We have a tradition of having homemade pizza for All Hallows Eve too.  This time I managed to sneak in 2 g of NMNF rye starter in with a pinch of instant yeast to make the dough.  The rest of the recipe was a bit different.  No preferment, a bit of honey and olive oil, 48 hours in the fridge after 2 hours of gluten development with a bit of garlic, sun dried tomato and rosemary in the dough - as per our usual.

We made our usual spicy pizza sauce.  The toppings were hot Italian sausage, pepperoni, caramelized onion and caramelized crimini mushrooms to go with some Manchego, mozzarella. ricotta and Parmesan cheeses and some fresh basil for garnish.  So, it was a simple pizza for once.

The dough really puffed itself up in the fridge and it easy enough to spread out into a pizza shape since the flour was half AP and half bread flour at 70% hydration.  The oven was preheated to 550 F, the pizzas baked on the bottom stone and the top stone was lowered down to get as much heat on the top as possible.

The dough browned up nicely top and bottom and the pizzas came out crispy as could be – no soggy, fold over pizza is ever allowed In Lucy’s Pizzeria.  It was yummy to boo.  The girls couldn’t decide if they liked this crust better than the one last time but as soon as I told them that this on had sourdough in it they both side last time was better!

I thought both were pretty good.  Everyone enjoyed Lucy on a Pumpkin too!  We had a great Halloween…… which is judged by how much candy is left over – we have plenty of our favorites including a new one – dark chocolate Kit Cats and pumpkin shaped Reese’s.

Lucy reminds us to make sure to have a salad with that pizza!

kiki's picture

Wow, it's been a while!
It's like my annual visit or what, ha ha.

So, it's Halloween and I am totally having fun with Jack every year!! 

above photo: pumpkin dinner roles with chocolate custard cream in his mouth! ^ ^
and below: my standard, pumpkin fougasse as jack, black sesame fougasse as spider net, and some pumpkin cream twist role!!

Filomatic's picture

The latest in my rye series is a Hamelman 70% medium rye with 30% WW, and a sizable pumpernickel soaker.  My cracked rye was bug infested (doesn't move very quickly at the only bulk store that carries it); the pumpernickel was coarse.  San Francisco Bay Area folks, if you know of a local source, please let me know.

All the rye was pre-fermented, and as a result took only 45 minutes to bulk rise and 75 for final rise in a pullman pan.  It was baked uncovered with steam, and had good oven spring; the loaf was about an inch below the pan and rose near 1/2 inch above the pan at the middle.

The result is a pleasing, mildly sweet, faintly sour loaf with soft crumb and a pretty chewy crust.  I'd prefer less chew, but some people like it.  It has the character of what I think of as German bread.  Not an everyday bread for me, but a welcome stop on my rye quest.

PY's picture

This is a "do nothing" bread introduced from facebook's perfect sourdough group, where apart from mixing (could help myself from playing with wet dough so i did 2 folds at 1 hour interval) and 1 fold and loosely shaping, nothing else is needed. I was intrigued so i try tried a small batch of dough to make ciabatta. 90% hydration. 2 hours bulk at RT and 15 hours bulk in the fridge. loosely shaped n baked with steam for 15 mins.

Easy enough and i got a monsters inc ciabatta. Happy halloween!

Cedar Mountain's picture
Cedar Mountain

I am currently exploring baking sourdough bread with different combinations of fresh milled rye flour, sprouted rye flour, sprouted rye berries but admit to being somewhat daunted by the sheer number of possibilities...and so for this Sunday dinner bread bake I resorted to simply another variation of a recent "lite" rye bread (where I last progressed to in this rye adventure), but with the addition of a toasted seed mixture, nothing new or fancy - when in doubt, fall back on what you know, what's worked in past.

30% fresh milled organic rye flour and 70% all purpose unbleached white flour autolysed for 2 hours with 70% water; then 22% levain (100% hydration, 50:50 rye/white) and 2.2% sea salt was mixed in with 200 stretch/folds (even with the relatively low amount of rye flour the dough felt different to me, initially a little stiff/gooey even at the lower hydration level); the dough was left at room temperature (21C) to bulk ferment with a series of 5 folds done over the first 2 1/2 hours; between the first and second folds I added 20% toasted seed mixture (pumpkin, amaranth, flax, sunflower, chia, sesame...all very coarsly cracked in a mortar before mixing). Pre-shaped, bench rested for 1/2 hour; final shaping and into baskets and overnight cold-proof in the fridge for 13 hours. Baking as usual, covered 500 F for 20 minutes; 450 F for 10 minutes and then uncovered at 450 F for 18 minutes.  I like the taste of the toasted seeds mixed with the flavour of the the rye and all in all, am pretty happy with this bake...went with a bit longer batard shape and straight score to open up the loaf down the middle.  



And, the crumb shot....


Sitopoios's picture

 It was 3 bread's tonight. Weinheimer Möhrenbrot from my favorite in this week "The Rye Baker"Reines roggenbrot from one of the best book about bread "Brotbackbuch Nr. 1"and Duhmyany (Belarus), its feature is that it is on the liquid leaven (176%) and scald. This last bread is not from the "The Rye Baker" but this book has many good receipt from Belarus.I like an aroma and a full "Geschmack" of this rye breads. 


1. Reines roggenbrot.




2. Weinheimer Möhrenbrot 



3. Duhmyany (Belarus)




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