#BreadChat January 2013 transcript -- Slightly New Format, Feedback requested
Hello, this is bagel_and_rye from Chicago Amateur Bread Bakers [1]. Today we hosted the first #BreadChat [2] of 2013 on Twitter. We would like to ask for feedback on the #BreadChat transcript, below.
After posting previous #BreadChat transcripts, we received feedback that the transcript was disorganized and difficult to read and follow. We made some changes during the chat in the hopes of increasing the chat's organization and readability. Did we succeed?
Today's chat focussed on challenges that arise when adding large quantities of butter and other fats to bread dough. We asked the following questions:
Q1: What are techniques to strengthen gluten before adding fat to dough? Autolysis, kneading, stretch+fold, long fermentation? #BreadChat
Q2: Instead of mixing butter into dough, we can "laminate:" rolled layers of dough, butter. Tips for those attempting lamination? #BreadChat
Q3: Where there's butter, sugar and eggs often follow. Special problems posed by doughs high in both fat+sugar? Effects of eggs? #BreadChat
Below is the transcript of the chat. Please read from bottom to top.
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Sonya Hundal @MortalGreenWhim [3] @AmateurBakers [4] super organised. Thank you #Breadchat [5]
Terry Lyons @cannyfradock [6]@ThePhoenixBaker [7] saw your post on #BreadChat [8]. Always wanted to try croissants..any tips or perhaps a recipe for home baker.....please
Peter Cook @Pricesthebakers [9] Will have to catch up with #breadchat [10]. Been at a @TasteRFLudlow [11] meeting
[12]
Dalay @DavidAlayeto [13]Hi there, David from Madrid... Late! I'll try to catch up reading fast... :) #breadchat [10]
[14]
baker/pastry/coffee @Miquel_Saborit [15] Autolys: Well knead, knead only = ECO;-) #breadchat [10]
[16]
Edesia's Kitchen @Edesiaskitchen [17] @realfoodfans [18] @AmateurBakers [4] Feb 20th for next one #breadchat [10]
[19]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] @ilovephillippas [20] Happy to have you following along, on today's #BreadChat [8]
[21]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] @realfoodfans [18] @Edesiaskitchen [17] Next #BreadChat [8] is Feb 20. Also, today's #BreadChat [8] transcript will be posted soon @thefreshloaf [22]
[23]
Terry Lyons @cannyfradock [6] @cannyfradock [6] #BreadChat [8].....What a fascinating hour.....cheers guys......Terry S.Wales
[24]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] @lapindor [25] Happy to have you with us on #BreadChat [8]!
[26]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] @Edesiaskitchen [17] Hello! We will post #BreadChat [8] transcript soon @thefreshloaf [22]. Please have a read, and join us for the next #BreadChat [8] Feb 20
[27]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Thanks everyone for another great #breadchat [10]. Now time to feed my starter and I'll go to bed soon. See you soon on the 20th of February!
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]We tried some new ways of moderating #BreadChat [8] today, to keep the chat organized and easy to follow. Thoughts, feedback for us?
[29]
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30]Thanks to all for this #breadchat [10], @floursaltwater [28] @AmateurBakers [4] and all the other participants ! Have a good night, day, evening.
[31]
jill farrimond @lapindor [25] @AmateurBakers [4] #BreadChat [8], Hi have been listening in from Devon, UK,
[32]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]If you have thoughts on February's #BreadChat [8] topic, please tweet them to @AmateurBakers [4] or @BreadChat [33].
Fuel Stop Bread @FuelStopBread [34] So much to learn... been an insightful hour. Thanks #BreadChat [8]
Edesia's Kitchen @Edesiaskitchen [17]"@AmateurBakers [4]: If you've been listening in to #BreadChat [8], please say hello and tell us from where you're listening." Late arrival. Sorry .
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom [35]Thanks to @EricFrenchBaker [30] and @floursaltwater [28] for a fascinating #breadchat [10], one of the best ever! Thnks @AmateurBakers [4] and see you soon!
[36]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]Next #BreadChat [8] is February 20, same time, same place. Please mark your calendars, and please RT!
[37]
Sonya Hundal @MortalGreenWhim [3] @AmateurBakers [4] @EricFrenchBaker [30] @floursaltwater [28] Fantastic chemistry lessons on #Breadchat [5] . The geek in me is happy.
[38]
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom [35] @EricFrenchBaker [30] interesting topic, gluten isn't fully understood by modern science, protein + water behaviour terribly complex #breadchat [10]
[39]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Thanks for your questions and presence at #breadchat [10] today. Great thank you to @AmateurBakers [4] for organizing and to @EricFrenchBaker [30].
[40]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] @jalaine [41] Moi Jarkko! Yes, today's has been an excellent #BreadChat [8]. We will post today's transcript @thefreshloaf [22] soon.
[42]
Janice Bell @jbell54 [43] #breadchat [10] signing out now from Bewdley. Thanks for food for thought.
[44]
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor [45] #breadchat [10] thanks to all the hosts!
[46]
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30] @PanarrasCom [35] Thanks for that. I'll have a look. #breadchat [10]
[47]
Tia Ingle @tiaingle [48] @AmateurBakers [4] @ericfrenchbaker [30] @floursaltwater [28] #BreadChat [8] thank you very enlightening as always! Oz signing off!
[49]
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30] @floursaltwater [28] Overoxydation leads also to an tough gluten, a thin and crackling crust and a tight crumb. Yuk ! #breadchat [10]
[50]
Sonya Hundal @MortalGreenWhim [3] @tiaingle [48] suspect your ambient temps are higher than in UK so you may need to work faster? #Breadchat [5]
[51]
Jarkko Laine @jalaine [41] @AmateurBakers [4] Oh boy, I'm late again :) But you seem to have good discussion going on here! #BreadChat [8]
[52]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]Topics you'd like to discuss at next month's #BreadChat [8]?
[53]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]If you've been listening in, please say hello and tell us where you listen from. #BreadChat [8].
[54]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]Bread bakers, you're welcome to stay on and continue the chat as long as you like. #BreadChat [8]
[55]
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom [35] @EricFrenchBaker [30] Q3, Q1 on the effect of sugar on gluten: http://chestofbooks.com/food/science/Experimental-Cookery/Effect-Of-Added-Substances-On-Gluten-Of-Dough.html#.UPcUSWc0_8s … [56] experimental evidence on its effect #breadchat [10]
[57]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Overoxyziding: Think egg whites, if you whisk it it turns white. Same with bread. #realbread [58] has a natural creamy or gray crumb #breadchat [10]
[59]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]The official #BreadChat [8] ends in 2 minutes. A big thank you to our co-hosts Eric (@EricFrenchBaker [30]) and (@floursaltwater [28])!
[60]
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor [45] #breadchat [10] ...caretonoids... temperature must be important too
[61]
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30] @floursaltwater [28] It's, indeed, a very good technique. I love it. It also helps to increase the hydration is you knead well. #breadchat [10]
[62]
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor [45] #breadchat [10] ...but oxygen promotes yeast growth which is useful for sourdough breads?
[63]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Overoxydizing? It has to do with the loss of carotenoids naturally present in the flour that carry lots of flavour #breadchat [10]
[64]
Sonya Hundal @MortalGreenWhim [3] @EastcourtManor [45] Agree. Wet doughs seem to work well with less kneading - less mess too #Breadchat [5]
[65]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Autolysis allows you to have a shorter mixing time, so you loose less flavour by not over oxygenating the dough. #breadchat [10]
[66]
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom [35] @floursaltwater [28] @EricFrenchBaker [30] @tiaingle [48] that is a good correction Eric :-) #breadchat [10]
[67]
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30] @floursaltwater [28] That's why I say that the term autolysis is restrictive and doesn't describe all the phenomenons. #breadchat [10]
[68]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]If you've been listening in to #BreadChat [8], please say hello and tell us from where you're listening.
[69]
Sonya Hundal @MortalGreenWhim [3] @EricFrenchBaker [30] @floursaltwater [28] #Breadchat [5] also prefer to knead for less and use autolysis, time and a bit of folding.
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28] @EricFrenchBaker [30] @PanarrasCom [35] @tiaingle [48] Like lots of things in baking we share with the artisan way we did bread before #breadchat [10]
[70]
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30] @PanarrasCom [35] @tiaingle [48] Calvel didn't invent the technique. He formalised it. It's an old method know by hand kneaders. #breadchat [10]
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor [45] #breadchat [10] agree with Eric that 10mins is a long knead by hand and requires a wet dough or will be too long
[71]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] @_Fagus_ [72] Welcome to #BreadChat [8]!
[73]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]If you've been listening in to #BreadChat [8] and are itching to ask a question, now is your chance! #BreadChat [8]
[74]
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom [35] @EricFrenchBaker [30] @floursaltwater [28] indeed it is, but oh how it has catched on! We say 'Autólisis' in spanish... #breadchat [10]
[75]
Fagus @_Fagus_ [72] Adding a solid levain or preferment and combined with a retarded adding of fat or sugar we can add strenght to the dough. #BreadChat [8]
[76]
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor [45] #breadchat [10] keeping qualities: I am eating 4 week old stollen right now...bread is usually too hard at that age
[77]
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30] @floursaltwater [28] Usually, by hand, I knead even less than 10 min... I prefer an autolysis and a short kneading. #breadchat [10]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28] @EricFrenchBaker [30] Getting amylase going? But you can see clearly that gluten bounds form by feeling the dough. #breadchat [10]
[78]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] RT @MortalGreenWhim [3] "And this is where autolysis lends a hand!" Be sure to mark your tweets with #BreadChat [8], so we can hear you
[79]
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30] @floursaltwater [28] The term autolysis is quite unprecise as it is related only to the lysis activity of the enzymes, not the rest... #breadchat [10]
[80]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28] #breadchat [10] Autolysis might contain sourdough if the liquid levain is a good percentage of the hydration in the final recipe. #breadchat [10]
[81]
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom [35] @tiaingle [48] Q1 autolysis usually done just after initial mixing of the ingredients. Inventor & promoter of technique: Raymd. Calvel #breadchat [10]
[82]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] @tiaingle [48] a nice post explaining autolysis, for reading later: http://www.abreadaday.com/?p=1159 [83] #BreadChat [8]
[84]
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor [45] #breadchat [10] autolysis: mix bread and flour without salt or yeast for 20mins to help develop gluten. Make sure it's not too dry
[85]
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30] @floursaltwater [28] That's one of the reasons why industrial loaves look "fresh" longer.#breadchat [10]
[86]
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom [35] @tiaingle [48] Q1 autolysis: a period of dough conditioning, usually w/o salt & yeast, where hydration and some gluten bonding happen #breadchat [10]
[87]
Tia Ingle @tiaingle [48] @floursaltwater [28] @ericfrenchbaker [30] #BreadChat [8] that would all depend on weather temp at +30 here keeping has limitations! :)
[88]
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30] @floursaltwater [28] High fat content keeps the product softer for longer. It doesn't slow down the staling process. #breadchat [10]
[89]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Overkneading by hand: Maybe I'm a bit lazy, I do tend to get tired after some 15-min kneading and give up :) #breadchat [10]
[90]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Autolysis is a term coined by prof Raymond Calvel, which means mix water and flour and rest for 1+ hours. Gluten forms passively. #breadchat [10]
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor [45] #breadchat [10] definitely possible to overknead by hand and start breaking the gluten down. ..
Tia Ingle @tiaingle [48] #breadchat [10] Q1 autolysis please! :)
[91]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Q3: Other interesting thing, I do believe breads with higher fat keep longer. What do you say @EricFrenchBaker [30] ? #breadchat [10]
[92]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] @EastcourtManor [45] asked about "over oxygenating the dough" #BreadChat [8]
[93]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] @tiaingle [48] asked about autolysis in layman terms #BreadChat [8]
[94]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]Let's move on to open discussion. We have 15 min to discuss any questions related to yeasted bread baking. #BreadChat [8]
[95]
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30]Q3 : usually, fats increase extensibility, not elasticity. Eggs present fat and emulsifiers properties. #breadchat [10]
[96]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Q3: All fats do tenderize the dough making it + extensible, maybe that's what you say @tiaingle [48]. What you think @EricFrenchBaker [30]? #breadchat [10]
[97]
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor [45]Q3 #breadchat [10] eggs have a strange effect on gluten - they are surprisingly dry with moderate fat content
[98]
Tia Ingle @tiaingle [48] @AmateurBakers [4] @ericfrenchbaker [30] #BreadChat [8] mmm now I understands why my Finnish yeast buns rise so quickly I don't use much sugar in them!
[99]
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30]Q3 : high fat content slows down fermentation too. Main trouble : the shaping. #breadchat [10]
[100]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] @tiaingle [48] RT Q3 #BreadChat [8] find eggs add to elasticity of dough
[101]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Q3: Problems working with higher fat? Not really familiar with, don't do them that much. Will leave this one to @EricFrenchBaker [30] #breadchat [10]
[102]
Tia Ingle @tiaingle [48] @floursaltwater [28] #BreadChat [8] thank you!
[103]
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom [35] @tiaingle [48] @EricFrenchBaker [30] Osmotic = difference in pressure due to difference in solution concentration. #breadchat [10]
[104]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] @tiaingle [48] @EricFrenchBaker [30] 'osmotic' meaning that sugar molecules suck in water, which yeasts needs for fermentation #BreadChat [8]
[105]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Q3: @tiaingle [48] Sugar is osmotic, draws water to it, this slows down leavening since yeasts "move slower" with less water 4 them #breadchat [10]
[106]
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30]Q3 : Every ingredient can have an effect on the gluten net but not always directly. Sugar doesn't interact directly. #breadchat [10]
[107]
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor [45]Q3 #breadchat [10] with high butter content shaping is very dependent on dough temperature. Braid your brioche will its cold!
[108]
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom [35] @floursaltwater [28] @EricFrenchBaker [30] Q3 that's true for small quantities of sugar. But over 10% sugar osmotic pressure takes its toll #breadchat [10]
[109]
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30]Q3 : Small content of sugar speeds up the fermentation (more energy available). High content slows down... #breadchat [10]
[110]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28] @EricFrenchBaker [30] Right! Wondering if it can have both slowing and faster effect on fermentation… then we achieve same level :) #breadchat [10]
[111]
Tia Ingle @tiaingle [48] @EricFrenchBaker [30] #BreadChat [8] osmotic,please in layman chat too early here for my brain to function :)
[112]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]Q3: Where there's butter, eggs and sugar often follow. Special problems posed by doughs high in both fat+sugar? Effects of eggs? #BreadChat [8]
[113]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Q3: High sugar content means also faster caramelization, should be careful when baking. Maybe need to sink temperature earlier #breadchat [10]
[114]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] @ThePhoenixBaker [7] @jbell54 [43] Thank you, we're on question 3 now, will re-tweet it #BreadChat [8]
[115]
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom [35] @EricFrenchBaker [30] Q3 we seem to disagree on the effect on sugar upon gluten formation... do you think it doesn't interfere? #breadchat [10]
[116]
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30]Q3 : High content of sugar would slow down the fermentation (problem of osmotic pressure). #breadchat [10]
[117]
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor [45]Q3 #breadchat [10] very long fermentation times over 12 hours for sourdough panettones...
[118]
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30]Q3 : High content of eggs can give a dry aspect to the product. #breadchat [10]
baker/pastry/coffee @Miquel_Saborit [15] @floursaltwater [28] Q1 no idea, which is that in very long kneaded delay loads helps #breadchat [10]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Q3: As @EricFrenchBaker [30] said when answering some Q1 question, higher sugar means faster fermentation. Reduce yeast quantity.#breadchat [10]
[119]
Aidan and Lisa @ThePhoenixBaker [7] @AmateurBakers [4] when laminating croissant, mix some flour into the butter square up and place in fridge with dough for 1 hour #breadchat [10]
[120]
Janice Bell @jbell54 [43]Q2 @floursaltwater [28] @tiaingle [48] #breadchat [10] I use goats butter with good effect
[121]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] Q3: Where there's butter, sugar and eggs often follow. Special problems posed by doughs high in both fat+sugar? Effects of eggs? #BreadChat
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Q2: Anyway, please do try making laminated doughs at home at least once! Very fun and challenging. The results are good! #breadchat [10]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]It's time for our last pre-submitted question. Moving on to question #3. #BreadChat [8]
[122]
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30]Q2 : I would recommend to avoid salted butter in any recipe as you can't control the rate of salt. But it can be used on purpose. #breadchat [10]
Tia Ingle @tiaingle [48] @floursaltwater [28] #BreadChat [8] wouldn't that raise water content? Q2
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30]Q2 : a good tric : work on a tray with cooling packs underneath. #breadchat [10]
[123]
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom [35] @EricFrenchBaker [30] Q2 Very true. I have experienced that with butters with the same water %, some very plastic, others brittle #breadchat [10]
[124]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Q2: @tiaingle [48] I've used salted butter for making croissants at home, didn't have any problems with that. #breadchat [10]
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor [45]Q2 #breadchat [10] eric what butter do you prefer?
Tia Ingle @tiaingle [48] @EricFrenchBaker [30] Q2 presume always use unsalted butter #BreadChat [8]
[125]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Q2: It's also important to be fast doing your folding and then cooling it in fridge. Be patient, leave it there one hour at least #breadchat [10]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] @EricFrenchBaker [30] @floursaltwater [28] Co-hosts, please stay on Q2. We can come back to Q1 in open discussion, last 15 min of #BreadChat [8]
[126]
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30]Q2 the quality of the cream(s) used for the butter changes a lot the plastic properties, not only water content. #breadchat [10]
[127]
Janice Bell @jbell54 [43]Q2 @Miquel_Saborit [15] The purpose of laminating is to create layers which is why you need to keep them the same. #breadchat [10]
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor [45]Q2 #breadchat [10] Eric yes the flavour and water content of the butter can vary a great deal
[128]
Masa Madre @masa_madre [129] #BreadChat [8] Q2, tempeture! cold butter
[130]
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30] @floursaltwater [28] @EastcourtManor [45] Sorry, not true. An extensive kneading is very easy by hand on a small quantity of dough.. #breadchat [10]
[131]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Q2: As @EricFrenchBaker [30] said, butters that contain less water and are more appropriate for lamination since they don't melt so ez. #breadchat [10]
[132]
Tia Ingle @tiaingle [48]Q2 #BreadChat [8] unsalted butter, right?
[133]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] @PanarrasCom [35] @Miquel_Saborit [15] We're on Q2 now. Let's get back to these ideas in open discussion in last 15 min of #BreadChat [8]
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30]Q2 : the choice of the butter is very important. Some brand offer specific butters. #breadchat [10]
[134]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28] @EastcourtManor [45] Just machine, really hard to overknead and over oxygenate the dough by hand. #breadchat [10]
[135]
baker/pastry/coffee @Miquel_Saborit [15]Q2 mass and fat must have the same softness to be able to laminate #breadchat [10]
[136]
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30] @floursaltwater [28] @Miquel_Saborit [15] Sugar increases the osmotic pressure and can speed up fermentation. No effect on gluten directly.#breadchat [10]
[137]
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom [35] @floursaltwater [28] @Miquel_Saborit [15] sugar molecules interfere with protein - H2O gluten bonding - robbing water from protein #breadchat [10]
Sonya Hundal @MortalGreenWhim [3] #BreadChat [8] Q2 find soft butter in blobs rolls better when laminating an egg enriched dough rather than melted butter - for Chelsea Buns
[138]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Q2: Exactly @PanarrasCom [35]! Both dough and butter should have the same texture when you're laminating them. #breadchat [10]
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom [35] @Miquel_Saborit [15] Q1 I would say that you delay the interference of sugar with gluten when adding it later #breadchat [10]
[139]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Q2: When laminating at home think two things: COLD + FAST. Work on cold surfaces, cold hands and be as fast as you can. #breadchat [10]
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor [45]Q2 #breadchat [10] beat the butter with a rolling pin to soften it without getting it warm an oily
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]RT @EastcourtManor [45] "over oxygenating the dough" We've moved on to Q2. Please ask this again in open discussion, last 15 min of #BreadChat [8]
[140]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28] @Miquel_Saborit [15] Didn't know about that one! Wondering why, since the fine sugar granules would probably tear the gluten? #breadchat [10]
[141]
Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom [35]Q2: in lamination, dough and fat block must have the same plasticity: respond to mechanical stress with the same deformation rate #breadchat [10]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Q2: When you're laminating doughs it's important to keep the layers of dough and butter separate #breadchat [10]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Q2: When you mix fats into the dough your objective is to tenderize the gluten, that's why you get a soft and tender crumb. #breadchat [10]
baker/pastry/coffee @Miquel_Saborit [15]Q1 add sugar but later also helps form a gluten more strong. For example Panettone bread #breadchat [10]
[142]
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor [45]Q1 #breadchat [10] first time I've heard of over oxygenating the dough. Is this a problem for hand knead or just machine?
[143]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]RT @tiaingle [48] "Q1 autolysis in layman terms please" Let's get back to this open chat--last 15 min of #BreadChat [8]
[144]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Q2: Great question! I love laminated doughs. That's how you make croissants and all the danish pastries! #breadchat [10]
[145]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]Q2: Instead of mixing butter into dough, we can "laminate:" rolled layers of dough, butter. Tips for those attempting lamination? #BreadChat [8]
[146]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]Nice discussion, bakers! Let's move on to question #2. #BreadChat [8]
Tia Ingle @tiaingle [48] #breadchat [10] Q1 autolysis in layman terms please
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Q1: In general, think you should follow the same process you use for regular doughs. Just add big % fats to the dough at the end. #breadchat [10]
[147]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] @tiaingle [48] @Miquel_Saborit [15] @PanarrasCom [35] @jbell54 [43] Please include question number (e.g., "Q1") when you tweet, as well as #BreadChat [8]
Janice Bell @jbell54 [43] @EastcourtManor [45] #breadchat [10] Q1 Yes, I found that happened with my last Brioche and it remained pale as a consequence.
[148]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Q1: Do remember that autolysis + short mix time are for flavour sake. Overly mixed doughs oxigenate and loose flavor #breadchat [10]
[149]
Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor [45]Q1 #breadchat [10] important not to over knead before adding the fat as the dough will continue to be manipulated
[150]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Q1: I think we're in agreement that for good gluten dev with fats: autolysis+short mix+add fat in the end+longer bulk+folds #breadchat [10]
Tia Ingle @tiaingle [48] #breadchat [10] can you explain autolysis please
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Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30]Q1 : after autolysis, kneading with increase of hydration if needed just before to add the fat. #breadchat [10]
baker/pastry/coffee @Miquel_Saborit [15] @floursaltwater [28] of course, ok. #breadchat [10]
Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30]Q1 : A good method : autolysis with a part of the liquid or everything, depending on the hydration rate. #breadchat [10]
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Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28] @jbell54 [43] Q1: Using autolysis shortens mixing time, since gluten forms passively, which is positive for flavour. #breadchat [10]
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ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]When you tweet to #BreadChat [8], also type the question (Q1, Q2, Q3) to which you reply. Off-topic tweets, please save for last 15 min of chat.
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baker/pastry/coffee @Miquel_Saborit [15] @floursaltwater [28] It is a pleasure to share this time with you. #breadchat [10] ;-)
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Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom [35]A powerful tool for strengthening enriched doughs is the use of a pre-ferment. Organic acid content will do good for that gluten! #breadchat [10]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] @cannyfradock [6] Hello and welcome! #BreadChat [8]
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Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30]Q1 : The best example for that is a fine brioche. #breadchat [10]
Janice Bell @jbell54 [43] @floursaltwater [28] #breadchat [10] I think a combination of autolysis and working the dough in some way.
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Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Q1: Then as Eric said, it's possible to obtain good gluten dev with a bigger bulk proofing and more folds. #breadchat [10]
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Terry Lyons @cannyfradock [6] #BreadChat [8].....hello Bakers.....
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Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30] @floursaltwater [28] Perfectly true. #breadchat [10]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] @English_Cocker [160] We're on question #1. Please save other topics until last 15 minutes, when we have open chat. #BreadChat [8]
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Kerstin Losch @Kerstinskitchen [162] @AmateurBakers [4] #breadchat [10] Made lots of Stollen over Christmas + experimented with long fermentation + kneading for butter + egg rich dough
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Masa Madre @masa_madre [129] @AmateurBakers [4] we use stretch+fold, also a good kneading #BreadChat [8]
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Tia Ingle @tiaingle [48] #breadchat [10] q1slow cool fermentation?
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Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30]Q1 : Kneading is important but is not everything. A extensive kneading degrades the ingredients. #breadchat [10]
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Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Q1: First of all, if fats are a high percentage of the recipe they should be added in the end when you've obtained gluten dev. #breadchat [10]
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ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]Q1: What are techniques to strengthen gluten before adding fat to dough? Autolysis, stretch+fold, kneading, long fermentation? #BreadChat [8]
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Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30]Q1 : One of the best things is to give a long fermentation with folds.#breadchat [10]
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Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor [45] #breadchat [10] q1 could add a pre-ferment to that list. ..
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] #BreadChat [8] has begun. We're on question #1.
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28] @Miquel_Saborit [15] Hola Miquel! Nice having you with us. #breadchat [10]
baker/pastry/coffee @Miquel_Saborit [15] #breadchat [10] hi from BCN! (Barcelona)
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ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]Q1: What are techniques to strengthen gluten before adding fat to dough? Autolysis, kneading, stretch+fold, long fermentation? #BreadChat [8]
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ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]Requirement for today's #BreadChat [8]: Mark each tweet with #BreadChat [8] + question (Q1, Q2, Q3) to which you reply. Will keep chat organized.
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] #BreadChat [8] format: We discuss pre-submitted questions _only_ until 15 min before the hour. Last 15 min, open discussion
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]Let's get started with our pre-submitted questions #BreadChat [8]
Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Say hello everyone :) #breadchat [10]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] @PanarrasCom [35] @FuelStopBread [34] @Kerstinskitchen [162] Welcome to #BreadChat [8]!
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ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] @EricFrenchBaker [30] Welcome, Eric! We're thrilled to have you as our co-host again this month. #BreadChat [8]
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Kerstin Losch @Kerstinskitchen [162]Good evening #breadchat [10] from frosty Shropshire. Learned to make rye sourdough out of necessity - missing German bread in living in UK
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ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] @MortalGreenWhim [3] Welcome, Sonya! Happy to have you with us again on #BreadChat [8].
Fuel Stop Bread @FuelStopBread [34]Hi all, Shona of FuelStopBread here. I'm on the journey to setting up a home bakery / bread school. Looking forward to my first #BreadChat [8]
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Panarras.Com @PanarrasCom [35]Hi to all #breadchat [10] participants from Barcelona! We are from http://www.panarras.com [176], a homemade bread webpage
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ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]To accommodate our many #BreadChat [8] participants, we're going to make a special effort today to keep the chat organized.
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Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker [30]Welcome everybody for the #breadchat [10] ! :-)
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] @EastcourtManor [45] Welcome, Steve! Hello from chilly Chicago. #BreadChat [8]
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Sonya Hundal @MortalGreenWhim [3] #BreadChat [8] delaying baking until temps go back up on Friday. -7 a bit chilly for me!
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ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]A big welcome to @floursaltwater [28], joining us as co-host for today's #BreadChat [8]. Welcome, Paulo!
Tia Ingle @tiaingle [48] #breadchat [10] G'Day from down under this is Tia looking forward to 1st chat this year
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] @tiaingle [48] Welcome to you and all of our Australian bread bakers! #BreadChat [8]
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Eastcourt Manor @EastcourtManor [45]Hi #breadchat [10], steve here from @eastcourtmanor [45] in kent england
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Paulo Sebastião @floursaltwater [28]Hi everyone! Welcome to #BreadChat [8]! Paulo reporting for duty from Stockholm, Sweden. Baker apprentice by night, It-consultant by day.
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4] #BreadChat [8] format: 5 minutes to say hello, 40 min for pre-submitted questions, 15 min open discussion. @EricFrenchBaker [30]@floursaltwater [28]
Tia Ingle @tiaingle [48]Just watched the sun rise already +19C chooks busy chattering by kitchen window getting ready for #BreadChat [8] !
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]When you come online, please say hello, tell us from where you tweet, and what you're baking today. #BreadChat [8]
ChicagoAmateurBakers @AmateurBakers [4]Welcome to #BreadChat [8]! Co-hosted by @EricFrenchBaker [30] and @floursaltwater [28].