The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts
jamiebando's picture

Retarding in Fridge Twice (Bulk & 2nd Proof)

February 13, 2019 - 12:42am -- jamiebando

Question for sourdough home bakers out there.

Due to a unique schedule and out of curiosity, wondering if anybody has had any luck with a method I'm trying out.

Retarding dough during bulk fermentation (~14 hours), bringing it back to temp for an hour. Pre-shaping, resting 30mins, shaping, and retarding once again in fridge for an additional 14 hours to then bake on final (3rd) day. Do you think dough will be over-proofed? Or do you think having two prolonged cold fermentation will give a more developed flavor?


Details on my bake: 

leslieruf's picture

A couple of weeks ago I made the Tomato & Nigella seed loaf from Emanuel Hadjiandreou"s book "How to bake bread".  I was drooling over the photos and decided then I would make 2 more of these recipe's next bake.  So yesterday I prepped the levain in the morning and then about 2 pm started mixing dough.  I also did 300 slap and folds instead of 200.  It was about 31 deg C outside here, so I had to watch the dough carefully.  I won't detail method as it was fairly standard with 45 minutes between coil folds.  Bulk ferment until about 70% bigger, 20 minute rest after preshape and cold overnight proof.  All loaves were shaped and retarted 4 hours after mixing.

Beetroot bread was first up.  Lead photo

219 g bread flour

119 g water + extra 10 g

95 g grated raw beetroot

6 g olive oil

5 g salt

131 g 100% levain 

Interesting dough that was purple - and I added 10 g extra water as I felt it was a bit stiff.  half an hour after the start of bf, I realised I had forgotten to add the olive oil so added it with a lamination and carried on. The dough was lovely and silky 

Crumb shot - love the spots of red, wonder how purple dough turns into yellow bread!  Beetroot flavour is not obvious but maybe next meal ex freezer will be stronger.  so pretty!!



Cheese & herb Bread. 

191 g Bread flour 

128 g water

6 g salt

1 g chopped parlsey

106 g cheddar cheese (I used Tasty cheddar)

0.75 g chilli flakes (I chickened out and reduced this, it should have been 1 g)

142 g 100% levain

Lovely silky dough as well.  When I went to score before baking, the dough was very very firm. The smell when baking was amazing.

Crumb - disappointed I can't see the parsley.  maybe next time more and less finely chopped.  Cheese fairly strong in the bread, but because it was grated it has vanished into the crumb.  It is a little salty for my taste, maybe next time a standard cheddar might be better but will see what I think when the loaf has gone.     


Lastly I made 1:2:3 with Durum, rye, barley & potato flour

196 g bread flour

30 g barley flour

30 g rye flour

30 g durum flour

15 g potato flour

256 g water

6 g salt

9 g starter built to an 88 g levain (from recipe flour & water)

This was actually pretty wet and I did an extra 50 slap and folds.  Dough didn't rise much before shaping.  It spread a bit and you can see that I was still a bit short on dough strength.  Still it is a nice bread that I have made before (when it turned out better, oh well... still tastes good!).  The lid on DO wasn't shut properly and you can see the crust is a bit dull.

Crumb isn't too bad after all. 

Our summer is very hot with most days 28 - 32 deg C so I was happy things went so well.  The doughs had 14 hours in the fridge before baking.

A rainy day would be sooo nice, our last real rain was just before Christmas and we had 15 mm in January but spread over 3 days so it does not do much.   

Bake happy everyone.




Donuttybaker's picture

Any help would be appreciated. 

Straight dough

dough temp 77

proofing @ 95 degrees and 75% humidity 30-45 mins

frying @375-380

thank you. 


alfanso's picture

This is a 76% hydration ciabatta modeled on that of Scott McGee.    Unusual in the low hydration and that he shapes these.

Dinner the other evening with friends for “Sunday macaroni and gravy”, which may be an Americanism for pasta with tomato sauce.  Also includes sausages, meatballs and ribs, all cooked in the “gravy”.  I hadn’t made a ciabatta in a while, so it was off to the races as part of our contribution to dinner.  

Today I’m once again seeing our visiting-the-U.S. London TFL compatriot Abe (in olden days "Lechem" and even older "A BakEr").  So I thought that I’d bake him one too.  But I wanted to bake something bigger.  Bumped up from 500g to 750g each, they are pretty easy to make, The biga was made the evening before and then warehoused in the refrigerator until mix time.  I’ve tried the Jason Molina Cocodrillo ciabatta quite a while back, and although it is a cinch to make, the flavor is lacking, so I ditched the effort and formula after two consecutive trials.

These were stretched out long enough that I had to load the baking deck sideways instead of head in.  13 minutes with steam, 16 minutes after, and 3 minutes of venting.  These could have gone a few minutes more.  

If you are a fan of the super open ciabatta crumb that mice and small children can fall through, this isn’t the formula for you.  But it is a ciabatta in every way, with modest open crumb,  thin crisp crust, and a light as a feather crumb. And makes fabulous toast.

And as toast:

Ciabatta w/Biga @76% Hydration       
Scott MeGee, alfanso        
500g  will yield 3" diameter loaves - small        
     Total Flour    
 Total Dough Weight (g) 1500 Prefermented40.00%   
 Total Formula   Biga  Final Dough 
 Ingredients%Grams %Grams IngredientsGrams
 Total Flour100.00%825.5 100.00%  Final Flour495.3
 Bread Flour100.00%825.5 100%330.2 Bread Flour495.3
 Water (cold in final dough)76.00%627.4 66%217.9 Water cold327.6
 Olive Oil3.00%24.8    Olive Oil24.8
 Salt2.10%17.3    Salt17.3
 IDY0.60%5.0 0.14%0.46 IDY4.5
        Biga cold548.6
 Totals181.70%1500 166.14%548.62  1500
KA mixer: "1",  “2” & "6" to incorporate, 2nd hydration @ "4"to add, “6” to mix, “8” to finish. 
In mixer: IDY into COLD water, COLD biga, flour.  MIX ON "1" until water is taken up, then "2" until shaggy.  Pinch and fold.
Remove dough from mixer,  ~50 FFs, 5 min rest, 50 FFs.      
Back to mixer: bassinage of COLD water, salt and olive oil ADD VERY SLOWLY - MIXER ON"4" THEN  "6" & "8" to finish.
Mix done with slapping sound, pulling off bowl onto hook, then dropping back to bowl again.  
bulk proof - 2 hr., 3 folds - 0, 40, 80        
scale at 500g, no pre-shape, couche seam side up       
40 min final proof        
Roll and stretch dough as it goes to baking peel       
Preheat @480dF        
Bake w/ steam @460dF, ~13 min, another ~15 min, then vent      
nhorwat's picture

Levain Maintenance

February 12, 2019 - 9:06am -- nhorwat

I've started baking Domique Ansel croissant recipe and he has instructions for starting a levain. They turned out pretty good and I'd like to keep the levain going. I'm unsure if I need to do it every day or if I can refrigerate it, etc.

He started with 50 g each of flour and water. Leave sit room temp 24 hours. Add 50 g each flour and water day 2, sti 24 hours and on day three add 100 g each flour and water. Day 4 Remove 20% levain and day 5 it should be ready to use.

marco2216's picture

Scoring - why didn't my bread open at the seam?

February 12, 2019 - 2:32am -- marco2216

Hello everyone, I'm a home baker who's been baking sourdough for about a year by now, and I feel like i have most things down so far. I'm mostly trying to improve on the aesthetics of my bread (scoring and crumb openness). A couple of days ago, I baked a bread that came out lovely, but it barely opened where it was scored. The crust was very flexible, almost soft, where it usually comes out more crispy. I used a new white flour which may be the "culprit." Onto my question: Why didn't the loaf expand where I scored it? Here is my approximate recipe:

Bread1965's picture

Carb loading in New York

February 11, 2019 - 9:02pm -- Bread1965

Hi Everyone..

I'm going to fly into Manhattan on Thursday mid/late afternoon and have the night by myself to wander. I'm thinking of finding a good (true) wood fired pizza or iconic bakery. I'm staying near and at a conference up at Columbia almost all of Friday and fly out Saturday morning. So preferably something north of mid-town. Any thoughts? Thanks.. frank


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