The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts
AlisonKay's picture

Reinhart whole-grain bread without commercial yeast?

December 12, 2018 - 1:52am -- AlisonKay

Has anyone here tried making the 100% wholegrain delayed-fermentation method Reinhart breads from 'Whole Grain Breads' without using commercial yeast in the final dough?

I'm thinking of having a go at the wholewheat hearth bread just using a sourdough starter.

There are two small references to doing this in the book. The first (page 153) just says that it is possible; the second (page 164) says the final dough will take three times longer to rise.

dmsnyder's picture

For the past few months, I have been baking breads with 40% home-milled mixed whole grain flours. I have been playing with various combinations of whole wheat, rye, kamut and spelt. The hydrations have been between 78 and 83%. I have found the flavors wonderful, but the crumb a bit dry, especially after freezing.

Last week, I returned to a bread with 30% whole grain flours and 81% hydration. The crumb was more open, and the crumb was cooler and less "dry" feeling. The flavor was subtly sweeter. I think my 40% whole grain breads need higher hydration, even than 83%. Stay tuned!

I have also been thinking for some time about trying some new (to me) rye breads. This week, I made Hamelman's "Sourdough Rye with Walnuts." This is a 50% whole grain rye bread. It is leavened by a firm rye sour and a bit of instant yeast, but it also contains a significant amount of un-pre-fermented rye - 40% of the total rye flour. The amount of walnuts is high - 25% baker's percentage. It is very tasty, especially good with cheese. 

 I hope you all are having wonderful and delicious holidays!

Happy baking!


mightymik's picture

hobart mixer

December 11, 2018 - 3:30pm -- mightymik

hi everyone,i have a question,i bought this Hobart mixer,but the label does not show what model it is.i need a bowl and mixer attachments for it but I don't know the model,it looks like a c210 but other pics ive seen have the c210 stamped on the label.

any ideas.



Filomatic's picture

This is my first brioche attempt, using Hamelman's recipe with commercial yeast.  I'm quite proud of it, but I'm not sure what it's really supposed to be like.  I'm not sure how cakey vs. bready it's supposed to be.  It certainly looks and tastes great, but I'm wondering if it's cakier than I'd like.

The problems I encountered were first that the pre-butter-addition mixing did not go as planned.  The dough was very dry, and was straining the machine.  So it's unclear to me if I achieved proper gluten development pre-butter.  Second, I'm not sure if it was adequately mixed post-butter to achieve the "sheeting" effect.  It's a very gooey dough, and it did get a bit of a windowpane, but I became afraid that I was going to overwork it if I didn't stop mixing at some point.  In all it was in there for 25 minutes or so, including several short couple pauses to inspect.

I would appreciate any thoughts people have on these questions.

isand66's picture

  I usually only put seeds on the outside of my breads but I decided to try adding it to the porridge and see what happened.

Well, I was pleasantly surprises at how tasty this one came out and the seeds add a nice extra burst of flavor as well.

The crumb was nice and open and moist as well.  This one is worth trying for sure.

Here are the Zip files for the above BreadStorm files.

Levain Directions

Mix all the levain ingredients together  for about 1 minute and cover with plastic wrap.  Let it sit at room temperature for around 7-8 hours or until the starter has doubled.  I used my proofer set at 83 degrees and it took about 4 hours.   You can use it immediately in the final dough or let it sit in your refrigerator overnight.

Porridge Directions

Add about 3/4's of the water called for in the porridge to the dry ingredients in a small pot set to low and stir constantly until all the water is absorbed.  Add the remainder of the water and keep stirring until you have a nice creamy and soft porridge.  Remove from the heat and let it come to room temperature before adding to the dough.  I put mine in the refrigerator and let it cool quicker.

 Main Dough Procedure

Mix the flours  and the water for about 1 minute.  Let the rough dough sit for about 20 minutes to an hour.  Next add the levain, cooled porridge, olive oil, ricotta cheese, and salt and mix on low for 4 minutes.   Remove the dough from your bowl and place it in a lightly oiled bowl or work surface and do several stretch and folds.  Let it rest covered for 10-15 minutes and then do another stretch and fold.  Let it rest another 10-15 minutes and do one additional stretch and fold.  After a total of 2 hours place your covered bowl in the refrigerator and let it rest for 12 to 24 hours.  (Since I used my proofer I only let the dough sit out for 1.5 hours before refrigerating).

When you are ready to bake remove the bowl from the refrigerator and let it set out at room temperature still covered for 1.5 to 2 hours.  Remove the dough and shape as desired.

The dough will take 1.5 to 2 hours depending on your room temperature and will only rise about 1/3 it's size at most.  Let the dough dictate when it is read to bake not the clock.

Around 45 minutes before ready to bake, pre-heat your oven to 540 degrees F. and prepare it for steam.  I have a heavy-duty baking pan on the bottom rack of my oven with 1 baking stone on above the pan and one on the top shelf.  I pour 1 cup of boiling water in the pan right after I place the dough in the oven.

Right before you are ready to put them in the oven, score as desired and then add 1 cup of boiling water to your steam pan or follow your own steam procedure.

After 5 minute lower the temperature to 450 degrees.  Bake for 35-50 minutes until the crust is nice and brown and the internal temperature of the bread is 205 degrees.

Take the bread out of the oven when done and let it cool on a bakers rack before for at least 2 hours before eating.

enchant's picture

pre-measuring the dry ingredients in bulk?

December 11, 2018 - 8:17am -- enchant

I have an Italian style bread that I make on a regular basis.  To make life easier, I pre-measure the dry ingredients that I use to make the preferment.  So into each of ten small zip lock bags, I'll measure out 65g bread flour, 37g corn meal, 1/4 tsp IDY, etc.  Then the night before I make the bread, I'll just dump one of these bags into 200g of water to sit overnight.


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