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Encore des baguettes

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dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Encore des baguettes

Anis_baguettes_with_SD001


Anis_baguettes_with_SD001


Anis_baguettes_with_SD004


Anis_baguettes_with_SD004


Anis_baguettes_with_SD009


Anis_baguettes_with_SD009


Anis_baguettes_with_SD_Crumb


Anis_baguettes_with_SD_Crumb

Thesee baguettes are based on the formula given to Janedo by Anis Bouabsa, with Jane's modification - adding 100 gms of sourdough starter to the dough. The formula and method have been described in some detail in my last blog entry:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/8340/more-baguettes-best-crumb-yet-me

 If these look substantially similar to those pictured in that entry, they are. My point is that this formula appears to be reliable and is yielding consistant and gratifying results for me.

 That said, this batch was superior to the last in a some respects: First, the crumb is even more open. Second, the flavor is much better. It is very mildly sour but also sweeter. Third, the crumb has a chewier texture. Fourth, the shape of the cross section is more round. Fifth, my scoring was more consistant.

I did make a few modifications in ingredients and method. While these may seem trivial, I believe those of us who have participated in "The Great Baguette Quest" have found that these sorts of small differences make the difference between "good" and "great" results.

So, my modifications from the previous baguette bake were:

1. My starter was more fully activated when I mixed the dough.

2. I included the starter in addition to the flour and water to the initial mix that autolysed.

3. I got distracted and forgot to add the yeast and salt until the last set of stretch and folds. In other words, shortly before putting the dough in the refrigerator. The gluten tightened up dramatically and quickly after the salt was added, but it was pretty fully developed already. (This is not recommended, and I'm not sure what if any difference it made in the final product.) Because I wanted to be sure the yeast and salt were well distributed, I ended up doing more folds - probably 15-20 more, and this probably resulted in fuller gluten development which may have contributed to the open crumb.

4. Following foolishpoolish's lead, I rested the dough only about 30 minutes after dividing and pre-shaping, and I proofed for only 30 minutes. (Bouabsa rests 45 minutes and proofs for 60 minutes.)

I am not much of a baguette fan, generally speaking, but this batch was good enough to motivate further baguette adventures.

David

Comments

Janedo's picture
Janedo

David,

You often post late and I'm up early, so I often get first dibs! 

We keep saying, I'm not really a baguette fan... then we make more! And now, in this house, everyone keeps asking for them again!

Yours have arrived at perfection, if I my say so myself. The crumb is incredible, the crust looks beautiful and crisp. I'll note the changes. I have some more dough going for this evening. Did I tell you I made some with a touch of rye and they were a big hit? Like a country bread baguette.

OK, so no baguette award exists, but you definitely deserve one.

I'm in the middle of "Le Goût du Pain" by Calvel and he does say it's a no-no to add the salt late but he is talking about in the case of intensive machine kneading. I don't think it is really comparable. You are right that all these little modifications make pretty big differences. But fortunately not the difference between edible bread and non-edible bread. It's just tweaks to perfection.

Jane 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I was definitely distracted making these baguettes. (I didn't include that in my description of formula modifications. Maybe I should have.) I meant to add some high extraction flour, but forgot to. I still want to try that and also try adding a little rye, as you did. More experiments will also give me the opportunity to practice my scoring.

BTW, I haven't said so before, but I bought one of those tomato knives you and Howard and others have liked. That's what I used on this batch of baguettes. I like it a lot.

The late addition of salt was totally due to lack of focus. I don't plan on doing this again. On the other hand, the additional folds I did to mix the salt may have improved the dough. I'm not positive.

So, did you buy "Le Gout du Pain?" Here, it's a major investment. Are you feeling it's worth it? I really like Calvel's CIA videos. His dough is beautiful. The problem is it's produced in a big spiral mixer.


David

proth5's picture
proth5

I bought mine from Amazon France (in French) where even with a sinking dollar it was a much better buy than the translated version or trying to buy it from Amazon in the US.

It is the granddaddy of them all and if your budget allows you should buy it.  If you can't buy it, but can check it out from the public library, you should read it.

That being said, I don't find that it is my "go to" book for formulas or techniques.  A knowledge of bread baking history is a good thing, but much has changed since Professor Clavel wrote the book.  He is the point from which one starts(and it is good to know from whence one starts), but not, I think, where one ends.

Many references have to do with commercial baking in France.  Again, something of great interest and importance, but not "go to" for me and my raggedy home baking.

It is no secret that "Bread..." is my "go to" book.  Mr. Hamelman's writing speaks directly to me and I am completely unrepentant about that.  Curiously, I do not think (as so many others do) that it is oriented almost exclusively to the professional baker.  I was no slouch bread baker before reading "Bread..." - but I saw the section on baker's math and said to myself "Why did no one explain this to me before!?" It changed my baking life.  Of course, Mr. Hamelman worked with Professor Clavel, so maybe it is just a logical link in the chain.

You didn't ask me, but there are some things about which I am passionate...

(Ah! And when to add salt!  Will the debate never end?)

Happy Baking!

 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Thanks again, Pat.

I appreciate your comments regarding Calvel's book. I like having the historical perspective on my interests. But do I like it $80's worth? Hmmmm ....

I'll see if the public library has a copy or can get one on inter-library loan for me.


David

Janedo's picture
Janedo

I was actually tempted to start a discussion on Le Goût du Pain in a bit when I'm deeper in to it because I'd like to know if the American version is the same. It's all about the problems in the French bakery industry as Pat said. It's very technical and historical. Since it is about my country and the practices and ingredients available here, it is extremely interesting. But, I guess I was wondering what you all thought about it. Also, I'm quite stricken by the sort of sect-like aura around his "beliefs" and his association. Strange. But his writing is pertinent and obviously made a difference in some bakers minds, though far from all of them because the awful, bleach white baguette is still the norm!

Bread is a bakers book, whether an at-home Sunday baker or a professional. It's clear, has great formulas and ideas. I really like it a lot!

I'm not a very scientific person and I don't put a stop watch on to time. Baking has to coincide with my very busy life. But all the information and techniques described by Hamelman seem to work just fine in to my life style and the bread resulting is perfectly palatable.

That reminds me, I had a big baking accident. I made some baguette dough and forgot all about it (part sourdough part yeast). Three hours later I had a big bubbly mass. I split it in two and used it as a poolish. I added T65, 5 grain and rye to one batch and it made gorgeous bread. The other I made into another baguette dough that is in the fridge. I really like accidents that turn out interesting! 

So, did you find the no-knead recipe, David? 

Jane 

proth5's picture
proth5

I would never start a busyness contest with someone with five children(!).  But, people who know me (I travel for a living) have described me as busy.  I whole heartedly agree - many techniques in "Bread..." fit well into a busy life.

I have the French edition of Le Gout du Pain and I will admit that I spent a while scratching my head about things like the addition of fava bean flour in bread flour (naturally, that is not done in the USA) and just had to put to the side the discussions of flour by ash content as interesting but having little application to me who lives in the great American fly over zone. (Well, not so much this week.  You may have heard of the little political event taking place not so far from me as I write.).  He does write for a French audience. (And he writes so very, very much as a Frenchman - a style that I have come to enjoy, but not the right style for everyone).  Of course he makes up for this just a little when he describes breads that belong to the Americas - such as tortillas.  His hand written labels in the illustrations would never make it past an American editor.  They remind me of the part of my schooling passed in France and make me smile.

My understanding is that in the English version (which is much more expensive than the French version) some accomodation is made for North American flours.

I also always smile a bit when he shows pictures of "la mie" of certain breads.  We would not accept these as our best efforts.  Culinary styles have changed.  Even Julia Child's "Mastering the Art of French Cooking" (both volumes) which are classics, fall short in an America now used to more year round fresh herbs than parsley.  She wrote well and is a culinary goddess, but she wrote those books for her times and the times have changed.  We do not discard the past, but bring it forward to support the future. If methods, formulas and the state of the art never got better - what's a heaven for?

Professor Calvel has produced a great body of work and had wide ranging influence.  Perhaps like W Edwards Deming, his influence was more profound in Japan than in his home country.

Each of us can become devoted to a particular teacher.  There is usually one who best fits our temperment and learning style.  But, I think, the best way is to sample the work of many teachers, experiment and decide for ourselves.  The only way to learn is to bake. And to think.

Ah, I wax philosophic.  I'd better sign off.

Happy Baking!

 

Janedo's picture
Janedo

I think I'll have so much to say about this book, for the moment I don't even know where to start! I have to finish it first and then I'll start a discussion. It's intriguing. Yes, his style is almost funny.

Jane 

Rock's picture
Rock

I have to say I look forward to your posts!

I like your analytic approach to things and I envy your photos.

Thanks

Dave

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder


David

blberman's picture
blberman

pass the butter!

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Butter and homemade strawberry jam coming up.


David

proth5's picture
proth5

Lovely crumb and grigne...

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

BTW, I searched Hamelman's "Bread" for his description of the stretch and fold in the bowl technique you described. I couldn't find it. Can you help? You're sure it was in "Bread" and not in a different book?


David

proth5's picture
proth5

Page 249 in the print edition only.

(If you have the Amazon on line edition, for some reason it is not there and is replaced by a formula for beer bread)

It's in my edition (which is the first and I think only edition) - goodness knows the vagaries of the publishing world - but the omission of that little technique is quite a sad one.

Hope this helps

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Thanks for the reference, Pat. I do have the print edition and will look at it this evening.

I appreciate you tracking it down for me.


David

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Pat.

My print edition of "Bread" has the formula for Beer Bread on page 249. It has no reference to being a second printing, not to mention second edition. Strange and disappointing.


David

proth5's picture
proth5

Well, that's too bad.

I have been known to be delusional, but not about this.  I promise it is in my edition - or how else would I know the technique.

What were the publishers thinking?

Sorry about that.

Pat

LindyD's picture
LindyD

That is very odd, David.  I came home and immediately checked my edition and the Un-kneaded Six-Fold French Bread formula is at page 249 and the Beer Bread with Roasted Barley is at page 141. 

What's on your page 141?  Maybe the French Bread?

BTW, your baguettes are gorgeous.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Lindy.

Page 141 of my copy of "Bread" has the Beer Bread with Roasted Barley formula too. But, on Page 249, it still has the formula for Beer Bread.

I was hoping it changed overnight. *sigh*

Thanks for the complement and for checking the book.


David

weavershouse's picture
weavershouse

That about says it all David. Your baguettes are out of this world and I thank you for the beautiful post and all the info. You're making it easier for the rest of us to try but I don't know if I'll ever see baguettes like that come out of my oven. I'll keep trying.

 

Just a little note that Suzanne Dunaway in her book NO NEED TO KNEAD uses a "turn in the bowl" technique that i've used since I got her book way way back before I found this site. I've never been a fan of kneading more than I have to and I found the turning to work great. I should check out her baguette recipe. I made the KAF baguette recipe using a "starter" made and left to sit overnight with added yeast from their online site and they were very nice.

 

Again, your baguettes are wonderful.                                         weavershouse

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I need to declare that persistance has paid off. I recommend it. ;-)

I have been so happy with the results I have gotten with this formula using stretch and fold, I really need to try it with other breads I've been mixing with machines. When I asked Peter Reinhart about stretch and fold when he visited here, he said it is good for slack doughs. Okay. How does it work with less slack doughs? I mean to find out.


David

foolishpoolish's picture
foolishpoolish

Wow David.  Those look wonderful!  Glad to see you have the baguette you desire. The 'explosive' grigne that a short second proof can give looks great!  

You mention the chewy crumb - this is something that has been perplexing me. I've been making baguettes every day for the last week or so and getting consistently open crumb and great grigne ...but I'm still not getting the soft 'pillowy' crumb I want...it's close but not quite there.

I had a bit of a revelation (that I might be barking up the wrong tree!) when I made an all-commercial-yeast,  short ferment baguette and STILL got  a relatively chewy crumb. Perhaps my flour is the issue... It's supposed to be 10.5% protein all-purpose flour...but I'm starting to have doubts.  The other possibility is the salt (Salt toughens gluten). 

Regarding when to add salt.  In my experience, it doesn't make an awful lot of difference whether you add before autolyse or after...I've not seen any dramatic differences in texture, flavour, colour or activity.

What I have been doing recently is a double hydration: first mix the autolyse but hold back some of the water, then add salt and more water after the autolyse to get the dough you desire.  At this point I'm mixing mostly by feel but never exceeding more than about 70% hydration.

Gosh I could waffle on all day about what I've been learning while making these baguettes...they have been like a gateway to experience and knowledge which I did not get from reading alone (and sometimes flies in the face of 'conventional' wisdom).  Anyway, I have a few more tricks which I'm going to try out to hopefully achieve my ideal baguette.  In the meantime I need to find a replacement baking stone for one I broke about 3 days ago (oops!).

Cheers for now,

FP 

 

 

 

 

Larry Clark's picture
Larry Clark

 

I think the flour and the sourdough "preferment" can cause a chewy crumb. I thought my sourdough was too chewy and started making it with a mix of 50/50 AP flour and bread flour. The crumb became less chewy and more to my liking. I also discovered, when making a french bread, that using a sourdough starter for the preferment created a chewier crumb. I have no scientific evidence for any of this and haven't followed up in earnest, but those have been my observations.

 Larry

 

foolishpoolish's picture
foolishpoolish

I've been using 100% AP flour from the start and varied every parameter I could think of from fermentation time and temperature to starter hydration and innoculation/percentage.

Interestingly, the acid byproduct of sourdough fermentation should, in theory, contribute to a more tender (not tough) dough. Protease certainly can and will eventually eat away the entire gluten structure given enough time.

Anyway I think I've found the answer and it all lies with the technique. While the crumb I got tonight was not as tender as an enriched brioche - it's certainly more tender than the commercially-yeasted baguettes I was making a couple of days ago with my old method.

Ack I'm rambling on rather incoherently now...partly tiredness and partly excitement that I think my own personal baguette quest may be coming to a happy end! More to follow in my blog...sometime soon!

Thanks

FP 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I regarded the increased chewiness positively. The prior batch had a very tender crumb. I have not gotten a "fluffy" crumb when using sourdough starter. Since I used the same flour for the last several batches (KAF French Style Flour), I think the increased chewiness was from additional folds, as described.

I haven't fiddled with the timing of adding salt. What do you think you are gaining with your "double hydration?"

FWIW, I am reasonably happy with the baguettes made with 74-75% hydration. I should try a more conventional baguette formula, just to see how they turn out applying what I've learned from the formula with which I have worked for the past few weeks.

I have preached to new bakers about the benefits of baking the same bread over and over, until it is "yours." I think we are both experiencing these benefits at the moment. I know I have learned a lot from making baguettes with only minor and/or incremental modifications of the same formula once a week, more or less, for a couple months.


David

Janedo's picture
Janedo

Just a note... What's the protein in the French Style? The T65 her ranges from as low as 10,6 to about 11,5. I ran out of the 11,5 and the store isn't carrying it anymore and so I'm working with an 11 these days. Maybe the flour does make a big difference FP. But with the starter in the formula, soft and pillowy isn't really an option.

David, the recipe is on p. 249 in my edition as well. But it is in the Straight Doughs section under the title Un-kneaded, Six-fold French Bread.

When you have your perfect, I'm in heaven recipe, could you take the time to write it out in full detail? I haven't gone back and written all the step changes and it would be fun for me to do just like you and see if it all applies to here as well.

And for the kneading, I use the fold technique for very wet doughs and then the technique that Steve shows on his blog www.breadecetera.com in "musing on mixing" for pretty much everything else (I haven't made yeast bread in ages, so don't know what I'd do). No added flour and the dough is oxygenized just perfectly with just enough gluten development with a couple of folds during the inital rise. I haven't turned on my mixer in ages.

Jane

foolishpoolish's picture
foolishpoolish

It wasn't the flour afterall.  

Cheers

FP 

mcs's picture
mcs

Great job, and by the looks of things, you didn't have to do any 'tight shots' with your camera work to hide anything.  It all looks awesome.

-Mark 

http://thebackhomebakery.com

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Yes. Progress is being made on scoring. I think it would go faster if I could bake more often, but I'm not ready to give up my day job quite yet.

Watching your wonderful videos, I see the necessity of developing sound motor habits for achieving consistent good results. As Leadbelly said, "It's so easy when you know how."


David

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

baguette tale from the beginning ... amazing results..but David, you have really outdone yourself ! I'm a little intimidated by slack dough, but am almost tempted to start experimenting. The other factor that makes me hesitate, it that we're really not all that fond of baguettes. They stale too quickly..the taste doesn't send me. Repeatedly I hear the same lament , "I don't really care for baguettes". So, the draw has to be the challenge?

Larry Clark's picture
Larry Clark

 

I think the draw is the desire to make a real French baguette. I know my attempts were so pathetic I've given up on them and American bakeries don't come all that close either. At a party recently, they had a basket of sliced baguettes from a local bakery well known for their aritsan breads. The baguettes were so salty I was shocked and then wondered if I was putting enough salt in my own breads. 

A French baguette is a mouthful of heaven and a total mystery. Every morning we would go to the boulangerie and get our coffee and pasteries for breakfast and then, for our outtings, a ham and cheese sandwich made on a mini baguette and smeared with a touch of butter- nothing else. I marveled at how anything so simple could tase so good and you would have to taste it to believe it. 

 

Larry

 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Paddyscake.

Thanks for your comments.

I'm one who never liked traditional baguettes much, with the same feelings you expressed. Now, I have not had any of the new type of baguettes using long, cool fermentation in Paris. So, I am talking about traditional straight dough and poolish baguettes.

I started on this quest for the challenge and the thought that I couldn't help but learn some new skills in dough handling that I could apply to breads I liked better. Then Jane wrote about Anis Bouabsa's baguettes. I had to try those. Then she threw in some sourdough, and I had to see how that affected the end result.

You know what? The addition of that 100 grams of starter, amounting to 20% baker's percentage, made for a different bread. It has the moistness and keeping quality of sourdough breads and the special crust to crumb ratio of a baguette. Now I can practice my shaping and scoring skills on a baguette I actually enjoy eating. I should add that, while it stays moist for 2-3 days, toasting it makes for another treat that shouldn't be missed.

The taste is still not exactly what I want, but I suspect the solution is adding a small amount (10-15%) rye, whole wheat or high extraction wheat flour.

I also wonder how it would be as a batard or boule. I can't imagine making more elaborate shapes that require more handling without deflating the dough too much.

I think you can tell that I want to keep working with this basic formula for a while.


David

Janedo's picture
Janedo

David,

You, as a Nury's rye addict (to harsh a term? :-) will love the rye addition, it changes everything. I left a touch of rye baguette at my friend's place and she raved about it the next day. I've also done some bâtards with this dough and I actually found it easier to form because I used the Reinhart technique of just folding the four corners in to the middle, pinching and roliing a tiny bit. They were very nice. 

Jane 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Jane.

My liking for Nury's rye doesn't fit the definition of "addiction," but it's a wonderful bread.

I am going to use Anis' method, Snyder modification, with some rye - I'm thinking 10% - and shape it into a batard.

I looked at Reinhart's method of forming a batard in BBA. Guess what. That is precisely how I formed the baguettes the last two times. Reinhart emphasizes *not* de-gassing the dough in the text accompanying the photos. That cannot be over-emphasized, if you want the open crumb I got.

I will be making another slack dough bread today, but you will have to wait to find out what that will be. I'm thinking about making some traditional poolish baguettes too, mostly to test what I've learned about forming them in the past month. But, I have 3 or 4 baguettes in the freezer still. Maybe that should wait.

BTW, I thawed and re-heated a baguette from the previous batch ("best crumb yet" batch) for dinner last night and this morning's breakfast. It was really good - much better than a "normal" baguette, to my taste.


David

Janedo's picture
Janedo

You know it's funny, because I'm deep in to Calvel and traditional French bread, I can't help thinking about how everything I thought was necessary to make baguettes that I would like never really helped. Noone ever spoke about straight dough, cold overnight fermentation, very gentle forming. Calvel is pretty clear about how regular bakeries produce very fluffy baguettes, but they don't have really open crumb, they are more like clouds. He does state that. It's actually rare to find a great baguette because few bakers hand shape their baguettes and machines tend to roll them too tightly. Not to mention the types of flour used, additives, etc.

Now, this said, all the pictures in the book of baguettes seem extremely unappetizing to me. I really don't like that king of baguette. So there is baguette and baguette. 

So, like you, I have decided to go back to some other types of bread and try them using some different techniques. In the last few weeks I have done some very, very slack doughs to see what happens. Some full sourdough, some with yeast. This one I did was pretty funny. It was sort of a ciabatta/rustic bread thing. It was over 80% hydration with a base of T65 with some T110 and rye. I didn't dimple the dough and so when it came out of the oven it had these HUGE holes (much too big). So, really, a poolish baguette with a decent hydration level should produce a nice open crumb without all night refrigeration... logicially, no? It's just that I am rather partial to the taste of bread that has had a long fermentation.

Oh, and that's another thing that struck me in The Taste of Bread. Calvel talks about long fermentation periods in the first part. Not in cold, just using way less yeast, so it takes hours longer. That could be interesting to try. That is essentially what we've been doing, but it would be interesting to use little yeast and no cold, just to see. 

The problem here is that I'm in to baguettes, but I'm also doing a bunch of other experiments and I have a house full of bread these days! Luckily I have a bunch of bread eaters. I have to find time to do a write up about the 80% rye. It was delicious and even Margot (13 mths) loved it. Who said kids only like white? 

Done rambling,

Jane

foolishpoolish's picture
foolishpoolish

Sometimes the exchange of ideas about baking can be really quite disheartening.

I realise that as far as I've come in my recent baguette quest...I feel  what I have learned from my own experience is of little use or interest to anyone else. Especially since it does not agree with the 'expert opinions'.  If M. Bread Professor says that fluffy baguettes are bad and could not possibly have open crumb..then they must be!  If M. Bread-Teacher-Extraordinaire says that you active starters require frequent feeding...then it must be so!  These are the rules!

For something to be deemed valuable or useful in the bread community, it must be backed up with numerous references to the holy tomes of bread baking (mentioning no titles in particular)...or namechecked against the list of usual suspects.

All of which puts a serious dent in my willingness to participate in dialogue (emphasis on DIA) I fear that if I post something it will at best be ignored and more likely get taken down with 'cross-referenced' criticism. Afterall, I've only been making sourdough bread for 7 months - what does a beginner like me know? I'm not a pro baker...nor am I a baker's apprentice. I have no vested interest other than I do this because I enjoy making and eating bread.

Done ranting,

FP 

 

 

 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, FP.

I clearly recall when you joined TFL under an even more self-denigrating handle. I recall the first of your breads about which you posted. You have climbed the learning curve as fast as anyone I know. Your latest breads have been beautiful. Time is relative. Your 7 months is like others' decades. So, give yourself a break!

We are all struggling with multiple sources of authoritative yet often conflicting advice. I think you, along with the rest of us, are trying to understand the science behind bread well enough to make judgments and then testing them in your own "lab." Sharing our experiments elicits feedback and encourages others to make their own contributions to the dialogue, from which we all gain.

Negative findings, including failure to replicate another's results, while harder to get published in scientific journals, always teach us valuable lessons about the phenomena under investigation.

So, please do share what you are learning, including what doesn't work for you. I am positive many of us would appreciate it, and you might profit from the feedback.

Done counter-ranting.


David

proth5's picture
proth5

FP,

I don't think I've ever ignored success whether it is a begining baker or someone who gets French awards.  There are actually many stories about bakers who "did it their way" and went quickly to the top of their craft.

I just spent months and months learning - well -  that what I always did was just as good as what other people told me I should be doing.  I've documented my production of flaming dough balls. (And I'm geting better at that whole tandoor bread production, but now that it's simply part of the weekly bake it doesn't seem all that interesting - all I can say is practice, pratice and marvel at the adaptability of the human body.)

I have an affinity for certain writers and like to give credit when it is due - but just because I do that I do not insist that their way is the only way.  I have favorite starting points, but it would be a betrayal of the people who teach me if I didn't strive to move beyond what they taught me to dicover things for myself.

I find some techniques interesting, but ill suited to to the demands of my baking life.  Does this mean I ignore them?  I don't think so. 

I try to look at comparing and contrasting as what it is, rather than seeing it as cross referenced criticism.  I've had to let some things go.  People are people.

Sometimes, FP you just need to take a deep breath.  I'm reading.  I hate to think of myself as no one.

And sometimes - believe it or not - I simply have nothing to say.

Happy Baking!

Pat

 

 

Janedo's picture
Janedo

FP,

First of all, remember that when you post one of your breads there are many, many people that read and copy the recipe without posting a message. I don't have tons of time, so I do that often!

Second of all, the books and techniques are bases for us home bakers and gives us a starting point and a common place for discussion.

This said, I started baking with very simple recipes and little by little, because I baked so often, did changes, for instance, I use to knead, leave the dough for 10-15 min, then come back knead some more and leave it and then come back. I had never heard of autolyse, I just found that it made kneading easier. So, I say that because it is also proof that the experts help, but aren't the summum. I really enjoy reading all about your experiments because you do things your way and you come up with some beautiful breads. It's actually loads of fun doing experiments to see what happens. Reading a recipe and making a great bread from it is satisfying, but doing experiments and making great bread is even more fun!

So, I have been waiting for your resulting baguette recipe and so please stop doubting and share!

Jane 

foolishpoolish's picture
foolishpoolish

It was interesting to read about the long autolyse (without leaven/yeast) which Gosselin employs in his baguette on another thread recently. I realise this is something I've been experimenting with for quite a while (although I have tried different temperatures, hydrations and time periods)...I had no idea this was something actually being done out there in the 'real world'...to me it was just a logical extension of the pain a l'ancienne recipe I  read about in BBA (which does add yeast to the refrigerated dough)

It's also frustrating. I feel like nothing I do or write about is worth a damn unless some expert has already endorsed it, written about it or won awards for it. In other words - information must always flow from the top down. Is this just my perception? I want to believe I'm just being paranoid - but I have seen so much evidence to the contrary.

 Baking has been a fairly solitary pursuit for me over the past year with precious little feedback IRL (by which I mean tasting). Most of the time I honestly feel like I'm either stupid or insane for even trying. All of which is to say that bread baking has left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth recently...after all if I'm not enjoying it - what's the point?  

That said, I have a levain fermenting at the moment....hopefully I'll follow this one through to it's conclusion.  I'm not sure where all this is leading or that I really have a point...oh well I guess we'll see...

FP