The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Greenstein’s Corn (RYE) Bread

dailybread101's picture
dailybread101

Greenstein’s Corn (RYE) Bread

)  I'll re-do it to make it:-less salty- I'll give it about 30 minutes of proofing after shaping (not more!) - I'll try to add more sourness by fermenting my rye sour overnight- I'll try to make the crust softer.

Greenstein’s Corn (RYE) Bread. This is my first try. :) 

I'll re-do it tand make it:
- less salty
- I'll give it about 30 minutes of proofing after shaping (not more!) - maybe this will help me to avoid crust cracks
- I'll try to add more sourness by fermenting my rye sour overnight, cos I am ethnically Russian and we like sour rye breads
- I'll try to make the crust softer, cos my husband likes it softer. :)

Front view
Front view

)
At night :)

)
In the morning :)

Close view

Thanks in advance for your comments!
:)

Comments

josordoni's picture
josordoni

Crumb looks very nice .  I like that moist ryeness.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Dailybread101.

Welcome to TFL!

Your Corn Bread looks wonderful! But I have made this bread several times, and yours looks so different from mine. The crust is thicker and lighter in color and, from the cross-shaped cut and the bloom, I would guess the dough was much drier.

Did you make any modifications from Greenstein's recipe?

I do decrease the salt he calls for by 25%. But, you say you are going to proof it for "30 minutes - no more." His recipe calls for baking immediately after forming. Unless your dough is much firmer than mine, this would mostly lead to the loaf spreading out more. Your loaf is already much rounder/less flat than what I get.

I'm really curious about how you made this.


David

dailybread101's picture
dailybread101

Hi David!

Thank you so much for your warm welcome!
I wrote down all my steps while baking this bread, so I can provide you with full information. First of all, I measured and then weighted all ingridients, so the recipe is now in grams.

1 1/2 cups warm water = 328 g

1 1/2 packages active dry yeast (1 1/2 T) or 1 T - instant fast rise yeast - 8 g

1 1/2 cups rye sour starter - 390 g

1 1/2 cups rye flour - 180 g initially + 90 g added when kneading = 270 g

2 cups White Unbleached All-purpose Flour - 270 g initially + 100 added when kneading = 370 g

1 1/2 T salt (I use 1 T, and it’s plenty salty.) - 18g 

2 1/2 T caraway seeds - no caraway seed

Starter was 100% hydration from rye flour with 6 % of protein per serving.  

S

Starter was stored in a room temperature and was never placed into fridge. Before making a douhg I fed it 3 times, every 3 hours, by tripling it, ie

x*3*3*3=390 ;
27x=390 ;
x=390/27= 14.4

Dough:
I desided to make an autholyse for wheat flour. So, I mixed canadian All-purpose Unbleached wheat flour with water and let it stay for 30 minutes. Also, I mixed rye flour with fast rise yeast and put aside. This rye flour differs from starter's blour and conteins just 4 % of protein.

For kneading I used a bread machine. I turned "preheat" option off and set it for 18 minutes of kneading. Finally I got a ball and a dough was sticky, exactly as you wrote. When finished, I put the dough on the table top and folded and strechened it for, let's say, 3 minutes.

I put my dough to rise in a room temp for 1 hour and it rised in 2.5 times. I shaped, covered with potato (not corn) starch solution and scored it.
My mistake was that I started to preheat my oven a bit late, so, my bread was shaped and ready, but my oven needed 15 minutes more to preheat. (I was using a baker's stone.)

That's why I actiually proofed a bread for 15 minutes while waiting. I was not planning to do this :)
I was really surprised to see the dough rising literally in front of my eyes withing these 15 minutes!

Then I put bread in the oven - it doubled in size. I baked 1.5 hours in 350F. I did not took it off the oven during this time.

That's a pic of a bread, taken after 1 hour of baking

So, that's it!

:)

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, dailybread101.

Thanks very much for answering my questions.

I must confess I've never actually weighed the ingredients as you do. Thanks for doing so. It will make it so much easier to compare and account for differences.

As to ingredients: I see you used AP flour rather than First Clear. That should have made for a wetter dough, since First Clear absorbs more water than AP. Yet you describe the dough as "sticky." My dough is beyond sticky. It is more like thick paste than dough. I don't know how to account for that difference, assuming there was a difference.

I have never done an autolyse with this bread. It's an interesting idea. It should have helped the gluten develop before adding the starter and rye flour. It would have made the dough subjectively drier.

I have no experience with bread machines. I don't know how to compare the results of 18 minutes of kneading in the bread machine with my kneading in a KitchenAid. Maybe some one here has experience with both.

I don't score this bread. I poke holes in it (dock it). I think my dough is too wet to score successfully.

I use instant yeast. About 2 teaspoons or so. Your bread rose faster than mine usually does.

You gave the bread a good long bake, yet the color of the crust looks lighter than mine turns out. You got nice oven spring, even with proofing. Did you use steam?

The crumb also looks different from mine. Was it dry? Sticky?

I would like to be able to account for the differences in our results. I'm not sure I can do so yet.


David

dailybread101's picture
dailybread101

Hi, David

I used steam. I poured water on a hot surface and 1 time I spread water on walls of the oven. I covered with starch only once - before baking.

The crumb was not sticky, maybe a very little sticky, but it was moist enough (you feel this when eat the bread). Also, only yesterday evening (check the date of baking) the crumb started to crumble, the taste became more sour and a crust - softer. 18 minutes of kneading is a standard machine time for kneading regular wheat dough for yeast-based breads.

I used a bread machine for kneading because I did not select a mixer yet. Some people are recommending Electrolux, some - bosch, some - kitchenaid. I had no time to compare specifications yet :(

Wheat breads I knead by hands, trying to gain good experience with dough structure, but with rye bread it's impossible. Also, it's so pleasant to work with dough by hands! It really gives you positive energy, I believe.

:)

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, dailybread101.

Well, I'm at a loss to explain why your dough was so much drier than mine. I do believe that yours was also much drier than what Greenstein describes.

My corn rye stayes moist for 4-7 days. It may get "hard," but it never gets "crumbly." A mystery.

Choosing a mixer can be tough. If you are making large batches of dough, the DLX or Bosch is clearly superior to the KitchenAid. I happen to have a KitchenAid Accolade. This was a 5-quart model that was produced for only a short time. It has a more powerful motor than the Artisan, but less powerful than the professional. It was the last 5-quart KitchenAid produced with metal (as opposed to plastic) gears. I've been very happy with it. I also have a Bosch mixer I use less often, when I'm doing larger batches or stiff dough. I'm quite happy with it also. There are many DLX enthusiasts on TFL.


David

apprentice's picture
apprentice

It's been awhile since I made Greenstein's corn bread. Also don't have the book, just my notes, so bear with me. But looking at your numbers and mine, dailybread, I wonder if the dryness comes in part from being a bit shy on the water (12 oz. = 340 grams rather than 328). If I understand correctly how you made your starter, I think Greenstein's has a slightly higher hydration. Finally, you added a fair bit of extra flour when kneading. Taken together, those factors could have been the difference.

This is meant to be a pretty wet dough. I calculate it at almost 88% water based on total flour weight (including the flour in the starter). As I recall, I had to use wet hands and countertop during handling and shaping instead of flour, and let my KitchenAid stand mixer do the kneading.

Many people have commented that the salt level is very high. My take on the issue is that plain and simply, there was a typo. It should have read 1 1/2 t instead of 1 1/2 T. In other words teaspooon, not tablespoon. That would bring the salt level to about 1.8% based on total flour weight, which is what Jeffrey Hamelman recommends for sourdoughs.

A wonderful bread, though, isn't it? Well worth the effort to master! Have fun. I'll look forward to seeing future versions.

Apprentice