The Fresh Loaf

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Is Reinhart's 100% Rye Hearth Bread Possible Without A Starter?

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CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Is Reinhart's 100% Rye Hearth Bread Possible Without A Starter?

Is it possible to bake the following Reinhart recipe, from his Whole Grain Bread bk., p. 175, without using a rye sourdough starter?  Yes, I know a starter is much better, but is it at all possible to work around that and still deal with the acidity of the rye flour and get a reasonable loaf of this bread?

Thanks. 

Soaker

 

Single Loaf

Triple

Whole  Rye Flour

 1 ¾  cups

5 1/4

Water

1 Cup

3 Cups

Salt

1/2 tsps

1 ½  tsps

Vital wheat gluten

(optional)

4 tsps

12 tsps

Starter

 

Single

Triple

Rye mother starter

½ cup

1 ½  cups

Whole  Rye Flour

1 2/3 cups

Almost 5 cups

Water

¾ cups

2 ¼  cups

   

Final Dough

 

Single

Triple

Soaker

Use all

Use all

Starter

Use all

Use all

Water

¾ cups

2 ¼  cups

Salt

5/8 tsp

3 1/8 tsps

Instant yeast

2 ¼ tsps

6 ¾ tsp

Note: Forgot to add:

Whole rye flour 

¾ cups+ 2 Ts2 ¼ cups
CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

deleted by poster

 

DanOMite's picture
DanOMite

hey there, yes i'm sure its possible, just use a biga instead (ask me if you don't know what it is and i'll help you out) so instead of using normal milk, your going to want to use buttermilk or yogurt, because of the levels of acidity to control the enzymes that rye has which attacks the starches causing it to not rise so well leaving a denser loaf

if this dosen't make sense please feel free to either message me or just ask on here and i'm sure others and myself can help explain everything.

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Many thanks for your assistance.  You have before you the recipe I am using.  So please advise where the biga is used as well as where and how much Yogurt is used.  As you can see, no milk is called for in the Reinhart recipe.

Many thanks..

Windischgirl's picture
Windischgirl

CountryBoy: I also own WGB...on p. 116, Reinhart talks about using a biga in place of a starter in the margins of the Seigle recipe...he suggests you add 1/4 tsp ascorbic acid (vitamin C) to up the acidity...the Transitional Rye on p 119 uses a biga and yogurt.

I have no idea what a rye biga would be like...your fermentation times might be shorter than with wheat biga...and your loaf will definitely be denser and more compact.  My suggestion would be to take a biga recipe from one of the other recipes in the book and simply substitiute it for the starter.  Your % of biga will be less than it would have been with starter, but only by about 2 oz.  The resulting loaf will be slightly smaller.  If you have made other breads from this book, you know the texture Reinhart is after and you can adjust for hydration as you are making the final dough.

If this is your first attempt from this book...do a transitional bread first.  The textures take a bit getting used to , and my family have found the resulting loaves dense.  (They enjoyed them in the winter, but summertime?  They are more interested in lighter, french and italian style loaves).

This is all about playing with your food!

 Windi

Philadelphia PA

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Ok the Transitional Rye then on page 119 but I have two questions:

  1. Why is Biga designated?  If I go with it as a poolish is it just the same?
  2. One of the ingredients is molasses, sorghum  or cane syrup?  Is that necessary or can I just substitute honey instead?
Windischgirl's picture
Windischgirl

I didn't read thru the whole book this morning...was dashing out the door.  There is a recipe for a transitional rye meteil (<50% rye) on p 178.  for this recipe, the molasses and seeds are optional.  Pretty much in the other recipes, Reinhart leaves the type of sweetener up to the baker, but with quantity adjustments depending on the type.  You can simply leave the sweetener out (I would bet that part of it's function here is the acidity and the color).

In most of the recipes in WGB, Reinhart offers a choice between a refreshed starter (if you have one) or a biga, which simply needs an overnight sit in the fridge.  The only appreciable difference between the poolish and the biga might be the hydration, and ultimately the final texture of your dough. (Maybe Reinhart is partial to Italian over French?!)

Making a biga is just as simple as making a poolish.

If the process seems awkward to you, I suggest you read the Chapters II and III.  It gets a little confusing (just omit the stuff about the mash unless you make that bread) but the basics of starter and biga and combining them were helpful.

I like the breads in WGB, but the texture of the dough may take some getting used to.  I have ended up with softer soakers/bigas than other posters report, but the final breads worked well.

Windi

Philadelphia PA

Windischgirl's picture
Windischgirl

I meant, "combining the starter and the soaker"  (not the starter and the biga).  Heat affecting my brain!

 

Windi

Philadelphia PA

 

 

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

I went ahead and started the rye bread on page 178 tonight.  Should know by tomorrow night how it worked out.  I never have used yougurt before.

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

My tripled recipe came out fine for two good sized loaves.

I used the biga as suggested however I am going to try poolish instead next time for the reason that it is easier to mix.  In Reinhart's WGB book he used biga and I have yet to see why, when using poolish results in a far easier mixing with the final dough.

Also, many authorities suggest that poolish might result in more sour than biga, although the jury seems to be out on that.  Anyone?