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Submitted by karol on June 7, 2008 - 5:24am.

I need help for baking bread

Hi,

I am new here and I need help, yesterday I mad a recipe I found on the King Arthur site for the pullman pan, I started it in my Zo machine, which is where I messed up, I realized too late that I forgot to put in kneading blades, so I had to dump my ingredients in a bowl and put them in and replace, the loaf  seemed better than I have ever made before, For once I cut the slices perfect, but I tasted a piece and it was horrible, it was heavy and dense. I did use malt milk powder from the store, I do have the diastatic malt powder from KA, someone said I could use the store stuff. I can't afford to keep wasting all the ingredients. I hope the only thing I did wrong was having to dump out the mixture for the blades. Any ideas?


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Submitted by swtgran on June 7, 2008 - 7:47am.

I really don't think dumping

I really don't think dumping out the bread mixture and putting it back had anything to do with it.  Did you also bake the bread in the bread machine or did you just use the machine to mix the dough?  Terry


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Submitted by sphealey on June 7, 2008 - 8:00am.

Agree on taking out the ingredients

=== I really don't think dumping out the bread mixture and putting it back had anything to do with it. ===

Agreed - I have to do that (or just stick my hands into the goop) about 1 out of 20 times I use the breadmaker (making me feel like an oaf every time!) and it should not affect the outcome. Sort of like a pre-mix or autolyze actually.

sPh


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Submitted by karol on June 7, 2008 - 8:04am.

I need help

I just used the machine to mix,  I baked it in the pullman pan in the oven.


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Submitted by barneyl on June 7, 2008 - 7:57am.

Yeast

What yeast were you using? How old was it and how had it been stored?


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Submitted by karol on June 7, 2008 - 8:05am.

yeast

store bought  bread machine yeast I store in the fridge till I dropped  it and broke the bottle this morning.


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Submitted by sphealey on June 7, 2008 - 7:58am.

Re: Need help baking bread

My recommendation would be to follow this path:

  • Get some simple bread machine recipes from King Arthur or similar source[1].
  • Pick one that is simple (few ingredients, nothing fussy) but starts you on the path to where you want to end up. By this I mean, if your goal is to make 100% whole grain breads, start with a recipe that is 75% white/25% whole wheat. Don't try to get to the extreme in one step, but do start out on the path you want.
  • Follow that recipe exactly to the letter - this is easier if the recipe gives weights rather than volumes, but if you use volumes (cups) then measure the flour the same way each time
  • Do this several times until you are getting a consistent bread that tastes decent
  • Then think about why that bread is decent but not great - what is missing or would you want to be different?
  • Look for a slightly more advanced recipe that addresses those problems. Not wheaty enough? Add some wheat germ. Not rich enough? A recipe with egg. Canola vs. olive oil vs. butter.
  • Repeat this cycle a few times, moving toward your goal each time but taking the time to reach a plateau before moving to the next step
  • And then look for a copy of _Rustic European Breads from your Bread Machine_ at the library or used book store

Eventually you may get to the point where you want better crust, a more even loaf, or specific shapes or fold-in ingredients. At that point you can still make the dough in the Zo but will want to take it out for folding, second rise, shaping, and baking (in pan or on stone).

HTH.

sPh

[1] The recipes that come with the Zo work consistently but have way too much added sugar and milk powder for my liking. And you can't just take out the sugar because then you have to adjust the water and your first step is to make something that works consistently without adjustment.


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Submitted by karol on June 7, 2008 - 8:13am.

bad bread

I did use the recipe from the KA site, pain de mei,  variation 1,  for this pullman pan. I have managed to get bread that kind of tasted good but looked crappy because I didn't wait long enough to cut it, I used that for toast  a few times. That was from the Zo book that came with  the machine. I will keep trying and follow advice, thanks everyone, I can use all the tips I can get.


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Submitted by sphealey on June 7, 2008 - 8:17am.

Can you link to that recipe?

Can you link to that recipe so we can take a look at it?

sPh 


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Submitted by sphealey on June 7, 2008 - 8:57am.

My thoughts on the Pain de Mie

Ok, assuming it is this recipe, here are my thoughts:

  • When KA calls for dried milk they are referring to the bakers nonfat non-instant dried milk that they (and other supply houses) sell. I am not sure exactly how this is different from the Carnation Instant Non-Fat that is available in US supermarkets, but it does produce different results.
  • Make sure your butter is fresh; there is a tendency to use up old butter in the fridge. This works OK for strong-flavored cookies but off-flavored butter leads diretly to off-flavored bread.
  • Same with the milk; no off flavors
  • Now the big one: like most of the recipes KA includes with equipment this one is designed to produce good-looking results very fast. Probably a positive-reinforcement thing to reduce the return rate on equipment. But these quick recipes aren't always the best. The Zo dough cycle is 1 hour 20 minutes IIRC. Set a timer at the 1 hour mark. Take the dough out. Give it a fold per the "turn and fold" videos being discussed in another thread today. Put it in a bowl or rising container (I use two repurposed ice cream buckets), cover, and let rise in the refrigerator for 1-1/2 hours or until doubled in volume. THEN shape, rise in the pan, and bake.

sPh

 


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Submitted by karol on June 7, 2008 - 9:50am.

sphealey

yes that is the one. The non fat dried milk is good but I threw in the 3 tbs. of malted milk powder too, I will try your tips with the rising next time, thanks so much.


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Submitted by sphealey on June 7, 2008 - 10:20am.

Advise against malted milk powder

I would advise against malted milk powder; not enough of the things you want and too much of what you don't.  And as you indicated diastatic malt is very different from non-diastatic malt; the former is a source of enzymes while the latter is just sugar.

sPh 


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Submitted by StephenJ on June 9, 2008 - 9:47am.

Good Bread Book for Bread Machine Bakers

May I recommend Beth Hensperger's excellent book, the Bread Lover's Bread Machine Cookbook. The recipes always workout just fine and there are dozens of tips for bread bakers and particularly bread machine bakers. The recipes are simple and just about 100% guaranteed to come out great. Have fun and god luck.


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Submitted by karol on June 16, 2008 - 5:27am.

Bread

I already have that book, so I will try something in there, thanks


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Submitted by StephenJ on June 9, 2008 - 9:49am.

OOPs

Should have previewed my previous comment. I apologize. The last comment should have been good luck.


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