The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Taking Bread Out of the Pan

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CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Taking Bread Out of the Pan

Ok, folks this has to be the bottom of the barrel when it comes to ignorance but here goes.....With what do I line my bread pans if different oils do not work and Crisco is forbidden.  Please note:

http://www.motherlindas.com/crisco.htm

.....all the possible health risks of hydrogenation ...(with Crisco)


There’s a new Trans Fat Free Crisco. Thankfully, it has not yet made it to all the grocery stores across the country, and some of you wouldn’t think of touching it even if it had. It’s made with sunflower oil, soybean oil, and “fully-hydrogenated” cottonseed oil.

According to lipid scientist Mary Enig, total hydrogenation produces only saturated fats, but these are usually as hard as a brick, and are “softened” up through a process called “interesterification.”

Interesterification involves the rearrangement of the fatty acids on the glycerol molecule or modification of the fatty acid composition to give new properties to a fat or oil without using hydrogenation. Enig says that restructuring through interesterification, which can be chemical or enzymatic, involves several solvents including hexane, a relative of gasoline. In the vegetable oil industry, such manipulation of lipids is referred to as the field of “structured lipids.”

I would avoid this new generation of Crisco and go back to butter and lard—the traditional fats of our ancestors. Another new "structured" oil on the market to avoid is Enova.

 So far my bread is very difficult to pry out of the pan, even with Crisco being applied.  My one Chicago brand pan is ok, but the others from A&P grocery stores require Thick layering of Crisco.  But if Crisco is now out of the question what do I use?

Like I said this has to be the dumbest question ever asked, but darn if I know the answer.  Baking the bread is easy, but I can not seem to pry the loaves out of the pans......... 

swtgran's picture
swtgran

If you buy loaf pans from Bakeworks, Inc., they will come out so cleanly you will be tempted to not even wash them.  They are very heavy duty and the bread has a nice color when done.

kanin's picture
kanin

Adding a thin coating of flour after the oil should help. I use canola oil applied through a mister. Is canola oil forbidde, too?

 

http://www.applepiepatispate.com

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

You are right.  I have tried that and it does work.  However I also find that it is a very unforgiving process in that if I slip up absolutely anywhere, that the bread will stick.  But yes I agree.

ejm's picture
ejm

I line bread tins with parchment paper. There is no need to grease the paper; the bread comes away from the paper easily. I remove the paper when I put the bread on racks to cool. The paper can be folded and used 3 or 4 times before it starts tearing too much.

I have also lined a bread tin with one of those flexible silicone "pans"  shaped like a baking tin. They can  supposedly be used on their own but the sides tend to collapse as the bread rises. They don't have to be greased either. The baked bread pops right out .

-Elizabeth 

Rosalie's picture
Rosalie

I got this recipe from the Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book (page 390).

"Buy some lecithin, either the granule or liquid form, at the supermarket or any natural food store.  Mix 1/2 cup lecithin and 1 cup liquid vegetable oil, blending smooth in the blender.  Keep it in the refrigerator.  Use this for greasing anything - it works like magic.  For best results, apply a very thin coat only, being careful to cover the entire surface."

Works like a charm.

Rosalie

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Well, no one around Westchester County, NY ever heard of lecithin.  Not in natural health food stores, or in major grocery stores.....?  They look as if I am ordering dynamite.

 Obviously you folks live in very literate parts of the country.

 

 

ejm's picture
ejm

I gather that lecithin is a food additive and can be derived from many sources: egg, plant tissues (soy, sunflower, etc), animal tissues. I don't actually know but suspect that most lecithin sold commercially is probably derived from plant tissues.

According to Wikipedia:

It is approved by the United States Food and Drug Administration for human consumption with the status "Generally Recognized As Safe."

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lecithin#As_a_food_additive

I couldn't figure out how to use the search engine on the US FDA site to verify this. However, Hydroxylated Lecithin, Lecithin, Lecithin Citrate (a preservative) are all allowable additives in Canada - but I gather they now have to label the sources of the lecithin because of possible allergens.

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/securit/addit/diction/dict_food-alim_add-eng.php

Personally, rather than use lecithin, I'd stick to lining tins with parchment paper or making free-form loaves that are resting on semolina or corn meal to help move the unbaked loaf from peel to oven.

-Elizabeth 

dougal's picture
dougal

 

Quote:
Well, no one around Westchester County, NY ever heard of lecithin.  Not in natural health food stores, or in major grocery stores.....?  They look as if I am ordering dynamite.

 Obviously you folks live in very literate parts of the country.

Can you get Google there? :)

 

Most Lecithin is extracted from Soya.  

Your local "natural health food store" will likely stock the (premium) "Solgar" branded products - or should have at least heard of them.

Solgar sell Soya Lecitin http://www.solgar.com/search.aspx?q=lecithin

 

But Google should find you plenty of other options, likely cheaper.  

 

 

Personally, I used to grease (with oil, olive or sunflower) and then flour my loaf tins. 

For cakes, (I'm no expert) what I do is line the base with parchment, but a wipe of oil, butter or even olive/sunflower margerine (whatever the cake used) suffices for the sides of the tin.  

 

 

It might not be conventional advice, but I'd suggest minimising the washing!

A well-used but rarely scrubbed tin develops its own non-stick coating -- rather like a 'seasoned' wok, or a cast iron ridged griddle. Wipe these things out only, never scrub with detergent if you can avoid it!

kanin's picture
kanin

Lecithin is actually an ingredient in Pam spray. I wonder how that stuff works.

 

http://www.applepiepatispate.com

audra36274's picture
audra36274

It works well and it can save on the pan washing if done right!

                                               Audra

Marni's picture
Marni

I use parchment all the time for baking on cookie sheets, but I have never found a satisfactory way to line a bread or any cake pan. (except the bottoms) Are you lining the sides of the pans too and if so can you describe how to do it thoroughly without rumples? Thanks!

As far as the bread releasing from the pans without parchment, I find that the timing is crucial. Some breads need to sit a bit first and some don't.

Marni

ejm's picture
ejm

I haven't greased a bread tin in eons.

I usually bake three loaves of sandwich bread at once and line the sides and bottom of two of our bread tins with parchment paper. I fold in the ends rather like the paper around a butter package (or a parcel). It's nice if the paper sticks up a little beyond the sides of the tin. That way, you can just lift the bread right out of the tin by taking hold of the paper, which acts as a sling (I hope that made sense!)

For sandwich bread, I can pull the paper away immediately that I take the bread out of the tin and put it onto the rack to cool.

For fruitbread (quickbread), before I discovered the wonders of parchment paper, I lined the tins with waxed paper. Same thing... no need to grease the pans. And as Mark said, wait til the bread has cooled a bit before removing the paper. It just peels away.

(I use a silicone liner for the third bread tin when making sandwich bread. I dump the bread out of the liner and onto the rack when it's time for the bread to cool.)

-Elizabeth

mcs's picture
mcs

As Marni and swtgran say, many breads don't need anything if you've got the right pans. Some need to sit about 5 minutes (sweet breads, for instance) before they come out of the pans. As you mentioned, the Chicago Metallic (nonstick) ones work great and I don't add anything to the pans. As they get older and very used they may require a light brushing of oil before the loaves are placed in them. We'd only brush the sides and not the bottom. With most breads, I kind of use the releasing from the pan as a doneness check. If you can flip them out, they're done, if you can't they need more time. Plus when you flip them out you can check the color of the bottom of them.

-Mark

http://thebackhomebakery.com

Richard L Walker's picture
Richard L Walker

PAM has a product with both oil and flour.  I use it in my baking.  As a side note, it seems like only a tiny amount of Crisco would actually end up on the bread and be eaten.  If it works, why not keep on using it?  I would be more concerned using it in products you eat (cookies, frosting, cake, etc.)

Mike Avery's picture
Mike Avery

There are a number of products similar to that version of PAM.

 

I've been using Baker's Joy for about 20 years now, it works very well, and it's cheaper than PAM.  When I can't find Baker's Joy, I've used the Safeway house brand, "Baker's Secret" also.

 

So far, for my money, Baker's Joy is the pick of the bunch.  And use a very light touch with it - a little goes a long way.  It's not that more is a problem, just why u$e more than you need to u$e? 

 

Mike 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

near a ventilator or outside.  Avoid breathing in any spray. 

I use parchment and pre-fold on the upside down bread pan making it just a little shorter in length than the pan. The folds are then on the outside when placed into the pan with almost no seams.

Mini O

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

My thanks to all for the many new suggestions. I will try them out.

moontripper's picture
moontripper

Wow! I read about the lecithin+oil tip here a few days ago and decided to try it out today for my sandwich loaves. I've normally used canola oil to grease..and although they worked ok usually, I've always had to scrape around the loaves to get them off the pan. But now...

Amazing...the loaves just tumbled out.

Thank you guys for sharing this awesome tip!

 

 

 

 

 

clazar123's picture
clazar123

I have taken to a light coat of oil and then a generous sprinkling of quick oatmeal (a soft texture)or cornmeal(a crunchy texture). I make sure to get it in the corners and slightly up the sides.

Works like a charm. 

cordel's picture
cordel

Hmm, I freeze all my butter wrappers, and use them on my pans. I have never had a problem taking bread out of the pan.

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

So I finally bought some Lecithin......$5.50 for 8 oz....ouch. 

And I understand the best recipe is 1/2 cup Lecithin to 1 cup of vegetable oil.  Is this correct?

 Many thanks.

 

sphealey's picture
sphealey

I just check Laurel's Bread Book and those are the proportions. Recipe says to mix in blender and stored in a tightly covered jar in the refrigerator.

Here's the thing though: I buy 140 g bottles of Mazola Olive Oil + Lecithin spray. A bottle lasts me a year or so. 1-1/2 cups of the Laurel mix would probably grease baking pans for bread for my entire town for a year!

sPh

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

sPh, You are Fast!

Thanks so much and thanks for the very necesssary addtl info re the storage.

 

 

 

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Yo! That Lecithin and Vegatable oil is fantastic for making sure the bread does not stick to the pan.  The bread pops out of the pan and there is little or no clean up.  It is Fantastic.

Thank You.

berryblondeboys's picture
berryblondeboys

I wonder if this would work for cakes? I bake cakes too and try to be organic or at least to stay away from things like crisco. I also don't like using parchment paper all the time - it's expensive and it's wasteful. Has anyone tried for cakes?

 Melissa

Rosalie's picture
Rosalie

I've just used it for bread, but I don't see why it wouldn't work for cakes.  Their texture is often a lot more delicate, but you can only try.

Rosalie

Janknitz's picture
Janknitz

It's made by Wilton, but it does contain partially hydrogenated soybean oil.  I figure the actual amount ingested is VERY small--I use about a teaspoon for an entire cake pan.  It is a miracle when it comes to my fluted and crenelated (looks like a rose) bundt pans.  I've used it on cake molds for character cakes for my kids, too.  You cna buy it in craft stores that carry cake decorating supplies, as well as kitchen stores like Sur le Table. 


Lecithin is available at my local Whole Foods in the dietary supplement section.  It's about $10 for a very big bottle--sounds like it would last a good, long, time and I have contemplated buying it to try.  But that would blow my ingredient budget for a time. 


I have used my oil sprayer to spray oil on some pans, but I already have pans that have a smooth, sort of non-stick coating.  It's NOT teflon or other PTFB, and I find I still need to grease them with something to make SURE my bread will come out.  The sides of the bread pans are so slick that the spray oil beads up and slides down to the bottom rather easily--so spray oil is NOT the best solution.


The other thing I sometimes do (oh, the heresy!!!) is use REAL butter!.  I put about a teaspoon's worth on a papertowel and use the papertowel to rub the butter on the surfaces.  OK for straight, simple bread pans, not so good for things like my fluted bundt pans. 

deblacksmith's picture
deblacksmith


Sorry, but I am not afraid of the "new Crisco".  If I were afraid of it, I would go to using lard.  Many on this forum will not agree because they see anything coming from the food science world as possibly evil but I don't think this is the case.  It is all a case of relative risk.  Is the risk from Crisco high?  I don't think so or Smucker's would not have bought the product from P & G and changed it to remove the trans fats.  I had a very interest discussion with a food chemist, retired from P & G, at the John C. Campbell Folk School over lunch.  He used to work on Crisco as a long-term P & G product and couldn't understand why Smucker's would buy the brand when it was so dependent on trans fat to keep it solid.  Then he said, well they understood up front how to change the product, make it a solid fat without using the evil trans fat.  Does this make it safe?  I don't know?  Only time will tell.  I am 64, most likely I will be gone before we know for sure.  Yet it is a simple risk I am willing to take.  In the scale of things living in a wood house (fire) and driving a car (got to get around), drinking beer (damn I love beer), and sun light (I like to work out doors) are likely much higher risks.


 


Smucker's is a good company, not perfect, but a good company.  (After all, they use corn sugar.)   In addition, I must confess that my name is Smucker.  No money connection to the company (I wish) but still a distant family connection.


 


Dave


proth5's picture
proth5

So, are you a teacher or a student at the school?


Lots of folks tell me that I should take a class or two there, but I've been spoiled by corporate travel for my hotel needs, and additionally, since I am pretty expert at those fields where I have an interest (except, curiously, blacksmithing - where I fear that I'd get mocked on because although I am pretty strong for who I am, I'm actually just a little old lady) I haven't become convinced of the value.


Let me know what you know and maybe change my mind...


Can message me, if you'd rather...


Pat

deblacksmith's picture
deblacksmith


Both off topic and on topic because the John C. Campbell Folk School has some great bread making classes and cooking classes.  I am both a teacher there and a student.  I teach a class once per year on making woodworking tools – it is part of blacksmithing, but for both blacksmiths and woodworkers – no experience in blacksmithing necessary.  There are lots of other blacksmithing classes for those with no experience – but all so some very advanced classes.  (Advanced classes tend to fall in the winter months.)  Many great classes and subjects most about a weeklong but also some weekend classes.  It is a wonderful place for those who want to learn by doing.  I live just three miles from the school and we retired here because of the school.  Love the area.  Yet we live 2 hours from any major city.  We don't even have TV, but love the internet and have not bad DSL.  (Food and housing at the school are not bad.)


 


I came from an industrial background in the metals industry but have a long history of working with my hands and making things.  That is how I got started in my interest of making bread, but I love working with my hands, doing woodworking, metalwork, bread making, gardening and always learning more each day.


 


The website for the school is at   https://www.folkschool.org/ 


 


Contact me off this forum if you want more information on Blacksmithing or the Folk School.  My public email is davesmucker@hotmail.com – put blacksmithing or bread making in the subject line to help with the spam.


 


Dave


proth5's picture
proth5

I've looked at the website many times.  The words "shared with another person" on the rooms is a phrase that gives me serious willies.


Taking any more time than I have to time from home is a stupendous undertaking for me, so I have to feel like I am not only getting value for money but value for time.  I also need reassurance that after a grueling professional travel schedule that I will not be thrust into a kind of experience that the occaisional traveller finds congenial, but will undo  this professional road warrior.


But I am still most interested as this is a well known school.  I will contact you directly.  Thanks for your generosity.


Pat

Liam's picture
Liam

Hi


Two thoughts, How much Crisco or lard or butter (my personal preference) are you going to be using?  I'll bet that there is not really enough to pose a significant risk.  It's like saccarine or aspartame.  Yes, it's harmful, but you have to use the equivalent of about a tanker full per day to evince the harm. 


While I'm not being necessarily afraid of new technology; and considering that using anything other than a pure vegetable oil puts you at risk of *shudder* trans fats or other saturated fats. I really don't care how safe any aerosol is - I just hate the fine coating of oil that settles over my kitchen; my next best choice is a product that Alcan and I'm sure other producers of aluminum foil make, which has a "greased" or oiled side.  I just mould it over the outside of the pan, then slip it into the inside of the pan with very little adjustment.  Bake and release is simple. Just remember that the dull side of the foil is the slippery side.  It will be the side you want touching the bread.


The Alcan product is called "Slide"


Just another thought -


L

jimbob's picture
jimbob

Really interesting to read this discussion - I ran out of baking parchment the other day after having made up a batch of bread dough.

I took a blob of butter out the fridge, microwaved it for 10 seconds to soften it then painted the tin and chucked some Polenta in, shook it about to get a real good covering all over the exposed surfaces.

Then I carefully placed the dough in the tin so as not to knock too much Polenta off. The resultant bread whooshed straight out the tin! and ... it had a lovely crunchy golden cracked texture to it. I'm sticking to this method from now on as it tastes absolutely lovely and doesn't waste pointless parchment.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

nuts or rolled oats or millet or or or.   Or you can butter the pan and roll the dough into the polenta or seeds or nuts or whatever and place into the pan.    You are only limited by your imagination.   :)